The Instigator
ilovejews7
Con (against)
The Contender
asox44
Pro (for)

Do you think christian "forgiveness" or catholicism confession enables people to be sociopaths?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/11/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 282 times Debate No: 101896
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

ilovejews7

Con

I look at the Christian concept of forgiveness and Catholicism's confession, as a means of rewarding one's behavior. How can a person be a "good Christian" if the person argues "that we are all sinners" due to jesus's sacrifice that enabled Christians to continually sin, without rectifying their sins, or for that matter, changing one's behavior... What good is catholic confession if a person continually confesses without adhering to the catholic morals that they preach or follow? I look at both concepts as enabling sociopaths to continue their behavior because their behavior will subsequently be rewarded with forgiveness. With all these confessions and forgiveness, American society does not resemble anything truthful, moral, peaceful,tolerant, or for that matter, merciful. What good is John 3:16 if people are hypocritical to their faith? What good is confession if a person continues to kill or cheat? What good is religion? excuse my unedited grammar sentence structure punctuation
asox44

Pro

I will attempt to argue that
1. Forgiveness is not detrimental to society.
2. America does resemble some things of truth, morality, peace, tolerance and mercy.
3. Being a "good Christian" is not part of any denomination's doctrine while that "everyone is a sinner" is part of doctrine. So to say that "people are hypocritical to their faith" is wrong.

Also, to increase my opponent's understanding of Catholic confession. Even though I am not Catholic, I have grown up with it and think my opponent does not understand how it works.
Debate Round No. 1
ilovejews7

Con

1. Can you explain confession?

2. can you name the christian sects that do not adhere to john 3:16 which is the concept of "we are all sinners"...other than catholicism and mormonism

3. I define a good christian as a person who preaches its faith yet cannot keep to their morals... hence forgiveness to condone their hypocrisy.

4. if a person always confessess s and is always forgiven as a reward of their bad behavior .... or if a person prays for forgiveness and is always rewarded forgiveness...how can it not be detrimental to society?

excuse my unedied grammar
asox44

Pro

1. Explanation of Catholic Confession
Here are the steps of catholic confession.
1. The priest greets us, and we pray the Sign of the Cross. He invites us to trust in God. He may read
God"s Word with us.
2. We confess our sins. The priest may help and counsel us.
3. The priest gives us a penance to perform. Penance is an act of kindness or prayers to pray, or both.
4. The priest asks us to express our sorrow, usually by reciting the Act of Contrition.
5. We receive absolution. The priest says, "I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the
Son, and of the Holy Spirit." We respond, "Amen." [1]
6. The priest dismisses us by saying, "Go in peace." We go forth to perform the act of penance he has given us.
The sign of the Cross and Act of Contrition are both prayers that are recited during the confession. Penance is what I want to focus on. Basically, penance is a "changing of behavior" it is either a prayer, fast, or form of service that the priest gives the person that is confessing. Also, it is to be done publicly as a sign of one's repentance. [2]

2. I do not understand this question because John 3:16 is part of every Christian Denomination's teaching that I know of. Except for Mormonism, which I don't consider Christian. What I meant earlier is that there is no official teaching in Christianity to be a verbatim "Good Christian".

3. For this question, I think it is best explained like this. When a person becomes a Christian, that does not mean they are not "sinners". They will make mistakes the rest of their lives, just like all humans. All it means is that even though they are "sinners", they choose to ask God for forgiveness and strive to be better. So I do not see the hypocrisy in going to confession.

4. As I pointed out earlier, a part of completing Catholic confession(forgiveness) is penance. [1] Penance is doing something to change one's behavior. [2] If people have to change their ways to receive forgiveness, then the "bad behavior" will cease to exist and most likely benefit society.

[1] http://www.loyolapress.com...
[2] http://www.vatican.va...
Debate Round No. 2
ilovejews7

Con

This is quoted in your previous argument:
"I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the
Son, and of the Holy Spirit." We respond, "Amen." [1]

My responses

1. That is forgiveness, right?

2. If a person seeks penance, and is always granted forgiveness, how can they cease the behavior if they are always rewarded forgiveness?

3. John 3:16 is the basis of every christian sect, other than mormonism, that christ died to absorb humanity's continuous sin, to wipe the slate clean. hence, forgiveness is always rewarded because " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

excuse my unedited grammar sentence structure
asox44

Pro

1. Yes, that is the point of forgiveness during Catholic confession. It must be noted that a core part of Catholic forgiveness is that it is a gift from God, and does not need to be earned. Forgiveness is a two way street if one is truly sorry for their "sins", they will take actions to correct them. If they are not sorry and thus not willing to accept forgiveness, they will not try to correct anything. Also, forgiveness does not mean one is set free from the consequences of an action. If one does something wrong they still have to deal with the worldly aftermath.

2. Penance is a "changing of behavior" as I said in round 2, so if they have done penance they have changed their behavior.

3. Yes, John 3:16 is a good summary of Christianity.

4. What would be better than forgiveness, should people keep grudges against each other? Would that lead to a better society?
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ilovejews7 1 year ago
ilovejews7
Mark 12:31 : The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 20:16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Take these verses above as an example. If a person has "faith" yet is not true to their morals that grant faith, how can they be forgiven, and if they are always forgiven, what good is faith? And if they are always forgiven, is it possible that forgivness will be used to reward one's bad behavior despite their "faith"

i dont understand orgnanized religion. there thousands of maybe millions of mosques, churches as well as synagogues in america; yet our society is filled will vindictive, manipulative opportunists...what good is faith if everybody confesses and is always forgiven... is our society a better place?
Posted by asox44 1 year ago
asox44
sorry I will try to get an argument up, but I have been quite busy this week.
Posted by ilovejews7 1 year ago
ilovejews7
how can a person be faithful if they are hypocritical to their religious morals? what good is faith and how can their be faith if the person is a hypocrite? So if i keep the faith yet remain a sociopath i will be forgiven? The concept of faith as well as forgiveness is quite confusing.
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
You can challenge me to this debate if you want, but the simple answer I see that forgiveness is applied to someone who has faith, and the Bible says faith without good works is dead. In other words, what good is an apology if you have no intention to change your heart? It's meant to tell us to always be a better person than we were, but we can find comfort in the fact that God won't condemn us for tripping up as long as we remain faithful (which again, requires the effort to improve oneself). The Bible makes more sense if you actually read it. You find out that it works as a cohesive piece.
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