The Instigator
Lookingatissues
Pro (for)
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The Contender
GoOrDin
Con (against)
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Does America have the duty and the right to preserve itself....

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 458 times Debate No: 98603
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
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Lookingatissues

Pro

Topic by lookinattheissues2 Does America have the duty and the right to preserve itself....
immigration, both the legal and illegal immigration should be halted in America.
"The right of a sovereign nation to preserve itself is not merely passive or defensive. Sovereignty also entails a proactive right to eliminate threats." Massive Immigration is such a threat.
Does America have the duty and the right to admit only those imigrants who conform to America's laws and agree to adopt the traditions and native language of America. The countries right to permit only those who demonstrate their loyality to it by their patriotic expressions and desires to become Americans and not "hyphenated Americans," with their allegience still held to the country from which they came .
"The same principles, which evince the right of a nation to do every thing, which it may lawfully do, for the preservation of itself and its members, evince its right, also, to avoid and prevent, as much as it lawfully may, every thing which would load it with injuries, or threaten it with danger"
Quotes From The Article, Titled.......America"s Founders and the Principles of Foreign Policy: Sovereign Independence, National Interests, and the Cause of Liberty in the World
By Matthew Spalding, Ph.D.
Immigrants flooding this country are a threat to America's sovereignty, and as the constitution is considered "A living constitution,"which needs to be interpreted to be viable to modern times so our views on a America, that welcomes all immigrants from the world to come here needs to be changed. The poem, "The New Colossus,' on the statue of Liberty which says, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.... should be changed with a new poem which reflects the realities of America today which is being over ran with immigrants.
GoOrDin

Con

Of course not.

America is the offspring of a populous who fought to create prosperity and security. The prosperity and security are gone, and they are now fighting to preserve their personal wealth and intrusive opinions.

American's are not the nations representatives, nor does the nation represent the citizens.

America, is a failed system that is trying to keep everyone together, But factually divides them, and subjugates it's citizens to people whom are the very thing the Founding Forefathers fought to eradicate.

Often, the fighters in those wars even, were fighting for money. And the nation they erected is built on arrogance.

Much of the demographic of America, whom were boron in America, in no way reflect "American" qualities, and the nation as a whole supplements their weaknesses to create an illusion of prosperity and security which jeopardizes us all.

So. No. America does not have any rights what so ever, nor does it have the duty to preserve itself. IN fact, it has the duty to dismantle any form of nation which harbours corrupt [as determined by ethical sciences] behaviour.
Debate Round No. 1
Lookingatissues

Pro

lookingattheissues2 response, to GoOrDin
The Swiss philosopher, Emmerich de vatel opined, " Self defense is a natural right.Every nation, as well as every man, has, therefore, a right to prevent other nations from obstructing her preservation, her perfection, and happyness that is, to preserve herself from all injuries.....and this right is a perfect one, since it is a given to satisfy a natural and indispenable obligation: for when we cannot use constraint in order to cause our rights to be respected, their effects are very uncertain. It is a right to preserve herself from all injury that is called the right to security." Injury to a nation can be inflected by a varity of methods, for instance,
Mexico and other nations knowingly, and willfully, allows its citizens to inflitrate America's borders and flood this country with these aliens. This massive flood of illegal aliens overwhelm the countries welfare system, its public educational institutions, housing, its prisons, and its medical treatment facilities using welfare that was paid for and intended for Americans.
You obviously believe by what you posted that America is the only country where crooked and unscrupulous public officials reside and that its citizens are the worst scourges of all societies and believe that if it weren't for America, and its people it would be a perfect world.The History of the world however tells a different story and refutes your claims against America. America's past conduct will stand up against other countries very well. We have never collected Jews up and sent them to gas chambers nor any other ethnic groups of people like Germany did under Hitler,nor did we, like the Russians murdered and buried others in mass graves nor did America send those citizens who expressed opinions that the government didn't agree with off to re indoctrination camps. Yes, America's record of past conduct will stack up very well compared to other countries past sorted history. Plato understood well the condition of human short comings, he said," ....for every one will do evil if he can. And he who abstains will be regarded by the world as a fool for his pains..."
Plato. The Republic
Obama has chastised America and its people by saying, That's not who we are as a people," as if he thought that Americans were a noble people but then in the next breath, apologizes for its citizens conduct to foreign nations.
The apology ,if America owes one, to any other nation should be for its misjudgment in who we have elected to high office.
GoOrDin

Con

"You obviously believe by what you posted that America is the only country where crooked and unscrupulous public officials reside and that its citizens are the worst scourges of all societies and believe that if it weren't for America, and its people it would be a perfect world." that, don't do that. Don't go self-righteous, making falsified claims. it's not supporting your character, and it's counter productive to your debate. One must remember in a debate also, they are not obligated to continue, IF honestly they are aware they have no grounds to do so, and should desist.

I do acknowledge, Openly that what Mexico does concerning the neglect of it's citizens infiltrating America is Criminal. Obviously. As a Nation they identify the land and thereby those in it as their own on account of applying authority there.
The Government of the USA is elected by the Demographic of the people within it's boarders to protect their interests.

It is not the Duty of the People to elect such a government, Nor is it there Duty to protect those boarders, More over, nor is it there Right to decorate their Government with Ultimate Authority.

The USA, has no right to claim the Country for it's current population. It has no Duty to provide obstacles for those coming into it.

As a Government, the USA has an obligation to protect the security of the citizens, as it was elected and PAID to do by the population, who it serves, not the other way around. This includes from foreign criminals, and people who confound society creating conflicts enabling criminals, Or subjugating honest people to hardships of economic grievances concerning the transfer of funds to bigots, arrogance swine, drug addicts, perverts, loafers or the miserly WHOM farmers and workers alike have not consolidated to provide services for.
Debate Round No. 2
Lookingatissues

Pro

( A ) Con replied,' "Don't go self-righteous, making falsified claims. it's not supporting your character, and it's counter productive to your debate. One must remember in a debate also, they are not obligated to continue, IF honestly they are aware they have no grounds to do so, and should desist
lookingattheissues
( A ) This pontification you delivered was just a diversion and in the end, served no useful purpose. As far as the issue of Character, my character nor your, for that matter, is a part of this debate.
( B )GoOrDin ," One must remember in a debate also, they are not obligated to continue, IF honestly they are aware they have no grounds to do so, and should desist..."
(B ) lookingatthe issues2 response ..
The challenge you have offered so far hasn't proven too much of a task to respond to and I feel quite equal to the debate with you but thank you for the option which I with equal amenity offer to you.
My topic was,"Does America have the duty and the right to preserve itself.
" ....Governments provide the parameters for everyday behavior for citizens, protect them from outside interference, and often provide for their well-being and happiness.."
Above Quote ....AMERICAN GOVERNMENT
Then the Declaration of independence refers to the purpose of government
Declaration of Independence
" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. (That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...."
"Does America have the duty and the right to preserve itself."
Government,".....deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...." being the representatives of the citizens, charged with defending the rights of citizens who have established Government has "the duty and the right to preserve itself."
GoOrDin

Con

The Government is not the USA. The USA is the people. The People have no Duty to preserve the boundaries or legal dispositions that are placed over and around them. The People have no right, to put others less than equal to them, because they are external to those borders, based on homeland, language, culture or beliefs. - an amendment***

America, does not have divine authority to Own the USA, nor does any individual of that nation of an excuse to Preserve THE United States of America.

It is not their Right nor Duty to do any such thing.

(*and you brought my character into the debate, let me remind you. And you failed to desist: in regards to that remark, and your debate, Which YOU proceeded to prove me right: with the mention of said amendment.)

As a note: Happiness and Satisfaction are not the same thing. And the pursuit of happiness or satisfaction as an ESSENCE, is not relative to any isolated individual's personal desires.

America. Does not have the right or duty to exalt itself nor it's population [specifically,* a population; of non renewable resource grass cutters; monolinguals; drug addicts; perverts; and Bigots],
They have the right to defend their population from oppression, the World from desolation, the children from corruption or Delusion, and the citizens from social instability.

I feel that all of these rights are what you are actually fighting for. and as I had stated in the comments, after my first post: Of course America can reject unwarranted immigrants on account of creating economic strife, *which scientifically leads to criminal behaviour internationally, regarding drugs, violence, theft, prostitution, abuse, neglect, bigotry (a social crime), and desolation. But that is a reference to Illegal immigration, or uncontrolled immigrants.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
GoOrDin
in other news: of course America ahs the right to reject immigrants. all and every immigrant which jeopardizes the security of the people of America.
Posted by Depravity 1 year ago
Depravity
I would love to do a debate on this issue, but I would have to take the pro side on this. I hope someone takes this debate.
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