The Instigator
jgouds
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KILLUMINATI
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Does God, (Christian) gives us free will?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
KILLUMINATI
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/3/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 944 times Debate No: 22540
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

jgouds

Con

God, as depicted by the bible knows all past, present and future. Therefore this would emply that we don't have free will, would it not? If he knows the outcomes, and he comtrols everything that we do, he hasn't really given us free will. So in essence there really isn't free will at all.


KILLUMINATI

Pro

Knowing what will happen does not mean that we are preventing or causing that thing to happen.The sun will rise tomorrow. I am not causing it to rise or preventing it from rising by knowing that it will happen.

There is no logical reason to claim that if God knows what choices we are going to make that it means we are not free. It still means that the free choices we will make are free they are just known ahead of time by God. If we choose something different then that choice will have been eternally known by God.

Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28). Why? Because God always knows all things: "God is greater than our heart, and knows all things," (1 John 3:20)
Debate Round No. 1
jgouds

Con

If we choose something different then that choice will have been eternally known by God." as quoted before can be seen with two different alternatives. That God is in the same time frame* as us and watches everyone holding their hands and guiding them along. OR he knows that we are going to change our minds.

If god is in an alternate time frame*, and can see the future he knows what decisions each person is going to make, thus essentially those decisions that we make to change our minds on any decisions are already seen by him.

*By the use of time frame; if one has lives longer their perception of time is shortened, for god who has lived forever, millennia would feel like jiffies.
KILLUMINATI

Pro

If the future exists for God even as the present does, then God is consistently in all places at all times and is not restricted by time. This would mean that time was not a part of His nature to which God is subject, and that God is not a linear entity; that is, it would mean that God is not restricted to operating in our time realm and is not restricted to the present only. If God is not restricted to existence in the present, our present, then the future is known by God because God indwells the future as well as the present (and the past). This would mean that our future choices, as free as they are, are simply known by God. Again, our ability to choose is not altered or lessened by God.

*My info source wiki argument from free will*
Debate Round No. 2
jgouds

Con

jgouds forfeited this round.
KILLUMINATI

Pro

God has ordained history to come to the conclusion that he wishes including and incorporating our choices into his divine plan: "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur," (Acts 4:27-28). Why? Because God always knows all things: "...God is greater than our heart, and knows all things," (1 John 3:20).

God clearly gives us free will so that we can make choices that shows him our love for him.............
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 5 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
I don't understand why atheists think that God's omniscience negates free will. The point of free will is that it is unpredictable. However, unpredictability doesn't mean that something won't happen. God simply knows what will happen; we, on the other hand, without omiscience, cannot predict it.
Posted by KILLUMINATI 5 years ago
KILLUMINATI
@Deathbeforedishonour: Jesus said that hell would be "outer darkness." He said that some in His day "will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:12, see also Matthew 22:13). Here the image is one of terrible loneliness. There will be separation from God and man. Those who are consigned to hell will be put out into the inky blackness of eternity, with nobody to turn to, nobody to talk to, and they will be constantly alone. They will suffer the remorse of knowing they had the opportunity to come into heaven with God but turned it down.
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 5 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
Blahh "where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die" sound familiar? Its in the Bible and its describing hell.
Posted by KILLUMINATI 5 years ago
KILLUMINATI
@Deathbeforedishonour hell is not a place you go. Hell is the grave and eternal seperation from God which is the worst punishmeant of all.
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 5 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
He gives a choice. The choice goes as follows: do what he says or burn in hell.

Gee what a nice all loving and caring choice..
Posted by lannan13 5 years ago
lannan13
no I mean... 1st rd acceptance you post case first
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
750 characters!?!?!?!
Posted by lannan13 5 years ago
lannan13
change the rules a bit then I'll accept
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Nur-Ab-Sal 5 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
jgoudsKILLUMINATITied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gets conuct for Con's last round forfeit, Pro gets convincing arguments for successfully refuting Con's claim.