The Instigator
jesussaves
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
SocialistAtheistNutjob
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Does God Exist?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
SocialistAtheistNutjob
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/28/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 477 times Debate No: 59687
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

jesussaves

Pro

As a Christian, I believe that the God of the Bible exists. Let's start with why I believe in some type of god. Even if you believe in the Big Bang, you know the universe is not eternal. There is a beginning and everything that has a beginning has a cause. Also, you can tell everything is intelligently designed. If I paint a picture, do I assume it happened by natural processes or that it was done by an intelligent mind? Which is more logical? Also, morality. Let me make this clear: I am not saying atheists can't know morality but they can't justify it. For example, an atheist can't say what Hitler and the Nazis did was wrong unless they judge by a standard higher than themselves. However, atheists do know right from wrong because it is written on their heart.
SocialistAtheistNutjob

Con

I'd like to begin this debate by stating that I do not "believe in the Big Bang", I understand that it is currently our best/most supported idea of how the universe came into existence.

I do not believe in the god of the bible for four main reasons. I will use round two to articulate these reasons, so please share with me your beliefs.
Debate Round No. 1
jesussaves

Pro

jesussaves forfeited this round.
SocialistAtheistNutjob

Con

Pro has forfeited this round of debate but I will articulate the reasons for non-theism anyway.

Reason #1: While it is not explicitly stated in the bible, we are able to determine that genesis began 6000 years ago. The problem with this idea is that we can see stars that are more than 6000 light-years away. The definition of a light-year is the distance (946,052,840,000,000 meters) that light can travel in one year. The star V762 Cas of the Cassiopeia constellation is 15,000 light-years away. Assuming that this is the farthest object from earth (it"s not), the earth is no fewer than 15,000 years old. (http://astronomy.activeboard.com...)

Reason #2: The bible seems to be comprised of more fiction than fact. If anything in the bible is to be taken seriously, it must be somewhat reliable. There is no evidence of a huge apocalyptic food occurring during the time of the Egyptians, the Chinese, and the Greeks. I'm pretty sure that one of these nations would have mentioned something about it in their history. To go along with that, there are no traces of kangaroos anywhere near the Middle East. How could they have crossed all of those islands, hopped all the way through the Middle East, and get a boat just to do it again. Plus, how could any of the animals have survived, the amount of food required to feed millions of animals for a year would weigh more than the animals themselves. This would have definitely sunk the ship. Finally, what did the animals eat after getting off of the ship? All of the food would have been obliterated by the month long flood. (https://www.youtube.com...) [ A scene from the Bill Nye v. Ken Ham creation debate]

For another bible story, it is claimed that God created the earth in six days, and rested on the seventh. Don't you think that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent could create the earth in mere milliseconds? Also, if god had created the sun on the fourth day, how had four days passed?

Reason #3: Horrible things happen all of time throughout the world. This leads me to a few conclusions. Either your god is unable to help, unwilling to help, or he doesn't exist. Millions of children around the world die every year, why doesn't he do something like magically make food appear? Or miraculously cure cancer? And don"t give me any of that "god works in mysterious ways" nonsense.

Reason #4: Every culture around the entire world has created their own deities. Who are you to claim that Quetzalcoatl, Vishnu, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster are not real? The only reason you believe in your god is because you were raised that way. All over the world children are raised on different religions. If god can"t reveal himself to you without the help of mortals, he must not exist, or be very weak.
Debate Round No. 2
jesussaves

Pro

I want to apologize for not being here for round 2. I have been working a lot.

I want to start out by saying it is incredibly arrogant of you to say that I am only a Christian because I was raised that way. You don't have any clue why I am a follower of Jesus. And just to clarify, I wasn't raised that way.

I didn't come to know Jesus until I was 16. I always believed in "God" but I guess I was someone who just thought it was enough to do good deeds.

As for evil in the world, that should actually be evidence for God. Without God, you can't know good from evil. Stealing is just as good as feeding the hungry in Africa. Why does God allow suffering? If you read the Bible, nowhere does it say life is going to be perfect or easy. The Bible explains the horrible things that happen in the world.

As for stars being billions of light years away, remember that a light year is a distance, not a time. It is possible that the stars are billions of light years away. That has nothing to do with age of the earth.

You mention the sun not being created until the 4th day and yet there was light before that. Remember that God is light. It is not literal in that case.

Why do i trust the Bible? Several reasons. Let's start with fulfilled prophecies. Some of them were written hundreds of years before they were actually fulfilled. The Bible is consistent over the 1500 years that it was written and the authors had no communication with each other.

And remember the disciples died for what they believed. Why would they lie about something that would put them to death?

http://www.alwaysbeready.com...
SocialistAtheistNutjob

Con

I apologize for making an incorrect assumption, pro is right and I shouldn't have.

I shall now dissect your argument.

"As for stars being billions of light years away, remember that a light year is a distance, not a time..."

This statement shows a profound misunderstand of a light year. A light year is the distance that light can travel in one year. Not only that, but nowhere did I mention billions of years. Let me reiterate what a light year is. (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)


If a star is 15,000 light years away from us, then it will take 15,000 years for us to be able to see the light from the star. The reason is because the light can only travel one light year per year. If what gensis says is true, then we shouldn't be able to see many stars for a few thousand more years. The facts all say that the earth is 6 billion years old. This would give us the ability to see any star in the within 6 billion light years of us in the universe, as long as we have a powerful enough telescope.

"You mention the sun not being created until the 4th day and yet there was light before that."

I never mentioned there being light before that. I questioned how four days could have passed if we use the sun to measure time.

"remember the disciples..."

Why do you assume I think they were lying? They could have just as easily been wrong. People die for having wrong beliefs all of the time. Are you saying the extremist Muslims are right? According to your argument, they can't be wrong because they're willing to die.

Closing argument: I just want you to keep in mind that if all knowledge of science was lost, all of the knowledge would eventually be rediscovered. On the other side of the coin is religion. If all religious knowledge was suddenly lost,
religion wouldn't even come close to recreating itself.

I don't believe that pro came remotely close to meeting any burden of proof for his statement that god exists.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
True Emris, Morality Evolved along with Language and Religion also evolved.
Anthropology has discovered that War like pastoral tribes (fringe dwellers) developed Monotheistic religions, while the more Peaceful, forest and hunter-gatherers developed Polytheist (more passive) religions as they did not need to fight other tribes to protect their food supply like the Warrior, Monotheistic tribes did.

So to say that You cannot have Morality without Religion is a False Dichotomy Fallacy.
Posted by The_Immortal_Emris 2 years ago
The_Immortal_Emris
Religion and morality are not mutually exclusive.

I am a humanist.

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over established doctrine or faith (fideism).

My morality comes from my desire to respect my fellow human beings, because I demand such respect in return.

No deity dictates earthly morality to me. Nor do I find the biblical stories to be very morally upright at all.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
Does the Loch Ness monster exist, well some believe so, even after scouring the loch with submarines?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Codedlogic 2 years ago
Codedlogic
jesussavesSocialistAtheistNutjobTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed in their BoP.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
jesussavesSocialistAtheistNutjobTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con provided a strong argument while Pro demonstrated a naivety of science, yes it takes 1 year for light to travel 1 light year, thus a billion light years away means it took a billion years for light to reach Earth. Viewing stars is looking back millions of years in time. Pro needs a science education.
Vote Placed by ArcTImes 2 years ago
ArcTImes
jesussavesSocialistAtheistNutjobTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was not able to meet his BoP. He did not rebut Con's arguments properly. And Con was the only one to use sources for his claims.