The Instigator
Ariesx
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
JBphilo
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Does God Exist?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
JBphilo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 509 times Debate No: 67718
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

Ariesx

Pro

Round 1 is for acceptance, Round 2 is for Cases, Round 3 is for rebuttals, Round 2 is for defense. I will be defending the existence of God, and I will be attacking the secular points as well. I hope the best of luck to my opponent.
JBphilo

Con

Good luck buddy! Hopefully will be an insightful debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Ariesx

Pro

I will be attempting to prove that God(Christian, Jewish, Muslim) exists, and learning from what the secularists have to say.

Argument 1-Entity-Entity is an object that is not bound my a material philosophy. It is fair that religious people believe that God is an entity and that he is not bound by materialism. One of the most commonly used critiques that secularists use against religious people is that God is an imaginary being that is all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipresent. People would think that is absurd, and scientists would agree. My argument would be that he is a entity.

Argument 2-Intelligent design (ID) is the pseudoscientific view that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection." Philosophers would early on have debated God, and ideas such as Intelligent Design, and First Cause came to be. First Cause is the idea that our world could not have just happened. So, we can look at the big bang theory. The Big Bang theory was an explosion of our stars that put us into existence. That would mean that their would have to be something before that Big Bang because if there wasn't than your whole thought process would be on the foundation of coincidence. I quote Dr. Ben Carson who said that "As much as we learn about the solar system, the more we begin to know about how many things we don't know". So to say the least, Atheists and Secularists pose the question that we know so many things about science, so how come we haven't found God? The question is absurd, because if you look at Richard Dawkin debates, you would see that if a theist would question him what happened before the big bang, he would usually say that we are working on it, which means that the Atheists and Secularists are still doomed to the question on what happened before the Big Bang.

Argument 3-Religion-Many people around the world have a religion. The demographic study "" based on analysis of more than 2,500 censuses, surveys and population registers "" finds 2.2 billion Christians (32% of the world"s population), 1.6 billion Muslims (23%), 1 billion Hindus (15%), nearly 500 million Buddhists (7%) and 14 million Jews (0.2%) around the world as of 2010. In addition, more than 400 million people (6%) practice various folk or traditional religions, including African traditional religions, Chinese folk religions, Native American religions and Australian aboriginal religions. http://www.pewforum.org...
As you can see, theists are in majority of the 6 billion people that live in this world. Our ancestors bought into the ideas of the theistic prophets. I will be explaining two great men who have said to have 3 men who have encountered God.
1. According to the Book of Exodus, Moses was born in a time when his people, the Israelites, were increasing in numbers and the Egyptian Pharaoh was worried that they might ally with Egypt's enemies.[6] Moses' Hebrew mother, Jochebed, secretly hid him when the Pharaoh ordered all newborn Hebrew boys to be killed upon the circulating prophecy among Egyptian priests of a messianic deliverer among the Hebrew slaves. Through the Pharaoh's sister Queen Bithia, the child was adopted as a foundling from the Nile river and grew up with the Egyptian royal family. After killing an Egyptian slave master, Moses fled across the Red Sea to Midian, where he encountered the God of Israel speaking to him from within a "burning bush". As we all know, Moses frees the Jewish people, and receives the ten commandments.
2. Jesus- Jesus was a man that all historic scholars agree that he existed. He is honored in every Christian denomination. Jesus was interpreted as the son of God, and as Islam interprets him as a prophet. Although, we are not positive that he is the son, we can safely say that he was a prophet. Jesus was bore to a virgin mother. Joseph was perceived to be the father. Mary was the mother. Jesus was raised in Bethlehem. At age 12, he tried preaching and his parents got worried about him, and tried preaching. As we all know, in his twenties he goes out into the world and starts preaching. He is very honored, but on the last days of his life he is said to have encountered God through praying. After his crucifixion, Jesus was risen from the death.
3. Muhammad-Muhammad is a very controversial issue in today's society, but he is known for the founding of Islam. Actually, out of all the theistic prophets, we know the most about him. He was born in a tribe in Arabia. The tribe worshiped lots of Gods. The main God was Allah. Allah was supposed to be the creator of earth, while all the other Gods created their own things on Earth. His tribe's values were hard-work, war when needed, and defending. In his twenties, he started working on a caravan. The women in charge of the Caravan was Khadija. Khadija openly married Muhammad because of his nobility and honesty. It is strange that Muhammad had his kind of upbringing, but still was married for his honesty. He started getting interested in philosophy. He loved Greek and German philosophy. He also believed in God. He had a mixture of Christian and Jewish beliefs, but he did not want to join any religion. In his 40s, he started getting revelations. He started preaching them. People followed. And, we have Islam. You can look for yourself if you want the full story of how he conquered Arabia. http://www.amazon.com...

Visitations to Heaven- People have claimed that they have visited heaven before. A 11 year old boy said that he went to heaven, met Jesus, and met his grandfather. Atheists would question this story saying that it is false, and that this boy could have been hallucinating. If the boy was hallucinating, than dream logic would apply. Dream logic would state that you would see people that you have already seen. People asked the boy what Jesus looked like. The boy said that Jesus looked Arab and did not even know he was Arab. That would break dream logic, and conclude that something super-natural was going on. He saw his grandfather too. But, his grandfather was young. The little boy too never saw his grandfather. He too never saw his grandfather. But he still saw him and verified the picture. So, it comes down to just trust. I trust him and I think it would be ignorant not to trust a 11 year old boy.

It all comes down into having faith in these people. I put my faith in all of these arguments, and I hope my opponent will do the same.
JBphilo

Con

Firstly, I would Like to say that I will not be arguing that god definitely does not exist as that is impossible as any proof of that would involve god. All I need to prove in order to win this debate is that, as we do not know god exists we should assume he does not until we are beyond reasonable doubt, and no argument currently meets this criteria.

Argument 1-Entity. Interesting idea, but it would be nice if you could explain further as you have not really given any reasons to support this. God may be an entity but we could never prove his existence as he would not be material and humans only evolved (I presume you accept this theory) the senses necessary to survival. Since we would never have any experience of the non-physical world when evolving we would never have developed a sense with which to observe it and therefore I believe the argument fails to prove god"s existence.

Argument 2-Intelligent design (ID) " You suggest "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection"- can you give some examples for me to respond to? The first cause argument is, I feel, a weak argument. I have to respond by putting the common question in response to this to you. "What caused god?" I know this is a simple response but if you cannot answer this then the argument fails and, as yet, no one has given me a satisfactory answer to this. Furthermore, as Hume pointed out there is not necessarily such a thing as cause and effect and therefore the universe has no cause. Referenced below.
You also suggest that as scientists like Dawkins do not yet know what happened pre-big bang that it must have been god, it could have been something else, it seems here you are relying on the gaps in scientific knowledge, (some of which will eventually be filled) to support your argument.

Argument 3-Religion- Here you are appealing to the fallacy argumentum ad populum. Just because many people believe something is right does not make it so. For instance, in the 18th century many people in America believed slavery is right but this is not currently the common belief- beliefs do change over time and the growth of education and science, rightly or wrongly, is bringing numbers of the religious down. Also a reason for religion"s longevity and popularity is that it has certain psychological benefits just as providing a belief in the afterlife as consolation when loved one"s pass away. I do not claim that this is wrong but I do not think we can use this as proof of god.
Also the existence of "prophets" does little to enhance your case for god as they are just men and words; words which any philosopher can use to convince others.

The case of a religious experience is a tough one as its impossible to disprove them. However, it is also impossible to prove and therefore we should not be using them to convince the unenlightened of god"s existence. I don"t know the case of the 11 year old boy but his parents could have briefed him beforehand and the questioner could have asked leading questions egging him towards a certain conclusion, just as mediums that claim to speak to the dead do.

I"m afraid I cannot put my faith in these arguments, they do not prove god and to me they even fail to argue that god is the most likely solution to the problems.

References:
http://www.iep.utm.edu...
Debate Round No. 2
Ariesx

Pro

Ariesx forfeited this round.
JBphilo

Con

My opponent has forfeited so I extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
Ariesx

Pro

Ariesx forfeited this round.
JBphilo

Con

My opponent has forfeited. I'm sorry to have to end the debate like this. Could have been a good one.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Unlimited 1 year ago
Unlimited
My take is that it really doesn't matter whether God exists or not. Even without a God, we should still obey moral guidelines. And to some degree, a belief in God, whether founded or not can produce hope, which helps us through our most difficult times. Now of course there is trouble when radical ideas of religion emerge, but these ideas will exist regardless of whether or not there is a God as here is little way of proving the existence of any deity.
Posted by Tweka 1 year ago
Tweka
God is subjective as I think. The universe is my God, it exists.
Posted by Asburnu 1 year ago
Asburnu
Can't wait to see what evidence PRO brings besides faith and feeling = "knowing".
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Envisage 1 year ago
Envisage
AriesxJBphiloTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Well... this could have been an interesting debate, but too many FF rounds. Pro lacked direction with his historical arguments. His argument from heaven visitation would have been interesting if he sustained it.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
AriesxJBphiloTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Geographia 1 year ago
Geographia
AriesxJBphiloTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, but Con won R2 anyway, as Pro had weak fallacious arguments.