The Instigator
EggsAndSam
Con (against)
The Contender
SalmaX33
Pro (for)

Does God Exist?

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Debate Round Forfeited
SalmaX33 has forfeited round #4.
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Time Remaining
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/26/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 694 times Debate No: 98458
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

EggsAndSam

Con

God - the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority

Structure
:
R1 - Acceptance only
R2 - Each side presents their claim(s)
R3 - Rebuttals
R4- Closing statements/arguments

Rules
1.) No trolling
2.) No forfeiting
3.) Keep it civil
4.) No "k's"
5.) Use reliable sources
6.) Put sources at the end of the text
7.) No new arguments in the last round

Pro will have to provide proof/evidence that God exists

I would like to thank my opponent in advance for accepting the debate
SalmaX33

Pro

Now, I would like to start of by saying that I understand why someone would have doubt. I had doubt at one point, but I am here to share my side of the story.
Proof: I will give some proof with each round, but for now, ill keep it one at a time, ok: There has been what you may call "proof" in DNA, scientists found a pattern, a written one, it was about 3 billion letters long, now there was this atheist scientist that would go to debates about this, and when he discovered this he thought to himself, who wrote this, its now like it was just there was it?
My side: Now I could see why one could despise religion, it causes wars. And you never know which one is truly honest and good, I wont say mine is, but I'm saying, its always hard to know where to go, whether its Christianity, Judaism or Islam. I mean, why would god (if he is real) make all these types of religion right? It is a test. Who will be faithful, who will not. Who will stay true to who they are, and who won't.
Now, may I ask you the following questions:

1. how was the universe created if there is no God?
2. Do you have proof that revolution, or reincarnation or anything like that exists?
3. Where do we go, when we die? We can't just stay "asleep" forever.
4. If you can't prove how we came to this earth, who created us
Thank you for your time, I hope we have a rational and level headed debate.
Debate Round No. 1
EggsAndSam

Con

I will reply to your questions directly in the rebuttal round, although they may be answered during this argument

Point 1 - No evidence that I am aware of.
As Pro has already demonstrated before even officially starting this debate, religious people often use the absence of evidence for something as evidence that there is a superior being responsible for the creation of this unknown object. This shows itself throughout history, one example is the ancient Greeks who used Gods to explain the nature of weather, oceans, harvest, etc. Many people view this as silly and foolish; however, the vast majority of these people are mirroring the behavior of the Greeks. One example is the creation of the universe. We, so far, do not have solid proof of what exactly caused the Big Bang. However, the absence of evidence for one thing is not evidence for another. Here's an analogy I like to use... Lets say there is the problem of a missing cookie from the cookie jar (represents the creation of the universe in this case) and I think my younger brother Matt took it (Matt represents God), however, one of my other 12 siblings could have taken the cookie (they represent scientific theories). It sounds incredibly stupid if I say "Well, while there's no evidence Matt took the cookie... there's no evidence the other 12 took it either (theories, such as String theory, do have evidence however)... so Matt must've taken it". You would either have to directly prove Matt/God took the cookie, or show that the other 12 siblings didn't take the cookie. In other words, you would have to disprove every single scientific theory that exists pertaining to the creation of the universe... which is impossible. In order for you to use the creation of the universe as proof that God exists, you have to be able to provide direct evidence that God is the one who created the universe or show that every scientific theory is false. Others use the Bible as evidence for God; however, one does not need to go very far into religion to realize how unreliable the Bible is. It imprudently states that the Earth is 6000 years old, that people live up to 900 years, etc. The Earth has been proved to be older than 6000 years old via radiometric dating [1] and it is simply medically impossible to live to 900 years, in fact, the limit has been shown to be 115 years [2] (there are a few exceptions, one woman lived to 122). People should not follow something so blindly that is so unreliable, the Bible, and other religious texts, is full of such lies and misleading statements as I have shown.

Point 2 - Numerous religions.
It has been estimated that there are currently roughly 4,200 religions [3] throughout the world. So, why so many? I believe that it is simple... because religions are created purely by humans. A "God" did not invent these religions personally, rather, an individual or a group of individuals had their own philosophy about life. Humans have selfishly throughout history depicted God as a human in paintings. There never was a God, humans simply invented him/her/it. The Catholic Church has been known for manipulating the public in the past by using religion in order to give themselves more wealth. Indulgences [4] (paying for your sins) are just one example. Most people here are most likely familiar with the Church's misdoings if they have had past an 8th grade education.

Point 3 - Numerous Imperfections
If the sole purpose of this planet is to make the human species survive... then why are there so many imperfections? Between 1994 and 2013, roughly 1.35 million people have died of natural disasters with roughly 218 million being affected [5]. Annually, roughly 6 million babies die almost immediately at birth [6]. 95% of the world's population have health problems, a third of them have more than 5 health problems [7]. Why do humans have goosebump, a tailbone, and an appendix if they are compeltely useless (because they are by-products of evolution). That's just the tip of the iceberge. What about the universe? The universe is 96 billion light years in diameter [8], if the Earth is the only thing that matters in the universe, then why make it so large? The vast majority of the universe is impossible to explore because it is receding from us faster than the ultimate speed limit.. the speed of light. To give you a picture of how vast the universe is... imagine the entire solar system as a grain of sand... the Milky Way galaxy ALONE would be the size of the continental U.S. If we took the Milky Way and shrunk it down to the size of a mere dinner plate... the observable universe would be the size of the continental United States. There are around 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe, each containing hundreds of billions of stars who each contain exoplanets/planets. Meaning, there are roughly 10^24 [9] or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the observable universe alone, you can not tell me that you expect to be special out of so vast a number. There are easily billions of planets just like our own Earth in just our own Milky Way galaxy. Even if the probability of a planet just like Earth arising was 0.000000000000001%, there would still be 10,000,000,000 Earth-Like planets in the universe.

I'll leave it at that for now

Links
[1] http://www.smithsonianmag.com...
[2] http://www.nytimes.com...
[3] https://www.reference.com...
[4] https://www.britannica.com...
[5] http://reliefweb.int...
[6] http://www.savethechildren.org...;
[7] https://www.sciencedaily.com...
[8] http://www.space.com...
[9] http://scienceblogs.com...
SalmaX33

Pro

Point 1: But is there an ultimate way to prove one of the other 12 took the cookie either, no not exactly, and about the age thing, how can you prove that no one lived that long? Unless you go back in time to when that person was supposedly alive and show me he lived to something like 70 years I will say fair enough. But otherwise, it is easy for a body to be turned into ashes, is it not?

Point 2: There are many man made religions, as i pointed out earlier that is why people have so much doubt, take scientology for example, they are proud to say a man made it. I believe there are only 3 real religions, if you want their names I will say so, but not right now in case I offend any one. And I agree, the church has done some shady stuff, but did God ever tell them that, NO! They simply just want the money. They are using religion to do it and that is horrible. By the way I am not christian.

Point 3: The imperfections, if God made everything perfectly, then why would anyone have a reason to really pay much attention to him, every once in a while we need to be woken up, I am sorry if that sounds ridiculous to you, but just think about it for a second. It is also a test, there is a very accurate quote "Tough times brings out the worst in people/ the true you." God wants to know, and prove, who really is a good person, and who is not. For people who are truly good, after tough times things tend to be solved, or they get more than they are solved. For people who aren't, they might still have a good time on earth, but not on the day of judgement. And who said there was nothing out there, sure aliens have not been proven to exist yet but do you really believe there is not another species? And who said i thought i was the only special one? I genuinly believe there is something else like us out there, maybe EXACTLY like us. The universe will always be a huge mystery won't it?

You have made some points, and whether you like my answers or not, they are my answers.

I do not despise aethists buy the way, I understand why it would be so hard.

I feel horrible saying this, but I am scared for Atheists, please do not answer me on this, I am merely expressing my feelings.

And I want you to think about the following statement:

Imagine god WAS real, ok? Then imagine you lived your whole life saying he was it, then you die, and you find out.
Would it not just feel revolting.
I am not saying he is definetly real, I am just having you 'imagine' it.
Another reason I am not an atheist is because IN CASE he IS real, I would be happy to know, I have done my "duty."
That is not the only reason, me trying to be on the safe side, it is not the only reason, another is me having faith, and other personal reasons, Thank you for your time
Debate Round No. 2
EggsAndSam

Con



It is possible to prove scientific theories or at least present sufficient evidence supporting them so that the theory is viewed as fact among the public. The heliocentric theory is just that… a theory, yet we all know by now that the earth revolves around the Sun.




The statement “Unless you go back in time to when that person was supposedly alive and show me he lived to something like 70 years I will say fair enough” is so common among religious individuals, yet it is a clear misunderstanding of how science and life in general works. When you present a claim, it is not my job to disprove it… but yours to prove it. You can’t say “well, 600 years ago, there was a 900 ft octopus, and you can’t go back 600 years to prove me wrong.. So therefor I’m right”. Instead, what you say will be viewed as a lie until you provide evidence, in science, there is no “innocent till proven guilty”, instead, it’s “a lie until backed up by evidence”. So since you provide no evidence whatsoever about someone living to 900 years… it is a lie. Plus, as I stated before, it is medically IMPOSSIBLE to live that long. Further, the average life span a mere 200 years ago was, on average 30-40 years [1]. As you go further back in time, the life expectancy goes down because of the lack of medicine and knowledge.

s://www.nia.nih.gov...; alt="Image result for life expectancy over time" width="400" height="413" />Image result for life expectancy over time


Also, you admit that you believe there are aliens… however, practically every religion out there in the world believes that God’s main job is to shelter/protect humans.


The majority of your reply was just your “philosophy” on why my points are true, again, not backed up by any sort of evidence or proof. This is perhaps the shortest rebuttal I have ever done since I simply don’t have any solid points to reply to. Since you did a rebuttal in round 2 instead of round 3, I would advise you to provide your own proof/evidence (not reply to what I presented) because that was your main job of this debate.






[1] https://ourworldindata.org...

SalmaX33

Pro

My religion never said that there was never aliens, and about the life thing, if you look it up, some cavemen wuld live in their 70s, so you can never know exactly how life worked, I guess when machines a pollution came around people lived less then more cures were found and better medicine e.t.c
Debate Round No. 3
EggsAndSam

Con

I am quite certain cavemen did not live to their 70's for their life expectancy is around 30 years [1] and even that, to me, seems to be a bit high.

As the reader of this debate can clearly see, not once has Pro provided a single source of evidence (even though I reminded them throughout this debate), meaning, they have failed to do their part in this debate. On top of that, Pro never listed a single source/link backing up their claims, making their points very weak and not to be trusted. Pro's arguments are full of lies and misleading comments, such as "cavemen lived to their 70's". This is ignoring the fact that Pro has not followed the structure of this debate whatsoever. Hopefully Pro will learn how to debate in the future for this has been a waste of my time. Nevertheless, I would like to thank Pro for debating with me.

[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com...

This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
You should attend this debate:
Atheism- A lost reality! A hopeless, helpless cause!
Posted by SalmaX33 1 year ago
SalmaX33
I am sorry i was busy and i forgot about this debate
Posted by EggsAndSam 1 year ago
EggsAndSam
Please don't forfeit
Posted by EggsAndSam 1 year ago
EggsAndSam
A rebuttal is essentially your "reply" to the other person's claim
Posted by SalmaX33 1 year ago
SalmaX33
Look, I honestly do not even know what a rebuttal is, call me an idiot if you want to
Posted by EggsAndSam 1 year ago
EggsAndSam
Rebuttals were for the 3rd round salma
Posted by SalmaX33 1 year ago
SalmaX33
I was not angry, just scared you would ditch the argument because of that
Posted by EggsAndSam 1 year ago
EggsAndSam
Calm down, it takes time to form an argument... I submitted my reply just now
Posted by SalmaX33 1 year ago
SalmaX33
Can you please just reply? I am interested in seeing your side, and I know why you put that rule, you don't want me getting the first chance of asking questions or proving a point, nonetheless, I still want to debate, so can we get on? I'm sorry that I didn't see your "rule"
Posted by SalmaX33 1 year ago
SalmaX33
Ok Im sorry, but can we get on, are you really not going to reply just because of that? Oh and it's a she
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