The Instigator
IveGotUrOuts
Pro (for)
Tied
1 Points
The Contender
xxx200
Con (against)
Tied
1 Points

Does God Exist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 678 times Debate No: 23220
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

IveGotUrOuts

Pro

Does God Exist?

I will argue that God does exist....

Round 1 acceptance

My arguments:
1.The origin of the universe
2.The complex order in the universe
3.Objective morality

Definition of God:The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority
xxx200

Con

i accept it. please post argument in consize form.
Debate Round No. 1
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

Thx to my OPP for accepting this debate and to our audience for reviewing it........


First I need to say I am not claiming that I can prove that God exists with absolute certainty. I am just saying that on balance of evidence theism is more plausible than not.


Now I ask that our audience leave your beliefs at the door so to speak look at both sides of this debate with "open minded" point of view judge/vote based on the best argument. I feel it is important for skeptics on both sides to recognize that not all their beliefs are based upon physical evidence.

A skeptic or atheist is governed by two main principles: (1) all beliefs must be supported by observational evidence (2) beliefs that contradict observational evidence cant be tolerated. But strong atheism says there is no God even though observational evidence indicates that the universe has a cause that cannot be detected observationally. The lack of observational evidence for a natural cause for the universe, the strong atheist believes that the universe has a natural cause and that there is no God, contradicting that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence.[1]

The evidence for design is seen in the nature of the universe and how it came to be. The big bang theory(BBT) states that the universe came from a singularity of virtually no size which gave rise to the dimensions of space and time, in addition to all matter and energy. Short hyper-inflationary expansion. The cause of this inflation is unknown, but is needed for life in the universe.

There is evidence that our universe was designed by intelligent force. The design of the universe is just one line of evidence that tells us that God is real and created the universe.


Objective morality:

"Objectivism" is the idea that right and wrong are true regardless what anyone believes. Right and wrong never change. Example of objectivism: Torturing people for fun is wrong is objectively true whether we believe it or not. If everyone was brainwashed into thinking it is morally right, torturing people just for fun would still be wrong.

"Relativism" is the rejection of objectivism. The doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture and society and are not absolute.

Objectivism holds that there is one true morality binding all of us. We have three options (1) Morality could come from a benevolent god (2) it could come from human nature for example, we could have evolved an innate set of moral values or it could come from (3) rational principles that all rational people must recognize like the rules of logic and math.

With this evidence, it seems relativism is wrong, so it would make sense to accept objective morality as actually being the case.

Now we see objective morality exist, and by definition is unchangeable. So we know there is a changeless essence out there that is the "good". We also have a duty to this objective "good". When we go against it we feel guilt. The "good" is alive, and interactive. We have a personal duty to an objective "good" being, so, it seems that he is deserving of the name God.[3]


So we know:

(1)Objective moral values exist
(2)Objective moral values require the existence of a god
(3)Therefore, a God exists




The origin of the universe:

Such metaphysical beliefs are often incorporated in popular books about cosmology, although it is seldom stated that those beliefs are without any evidence. As much as atheists would love to get rid of a beginning to the universe, it is apparent that it did begin to exist some time in the past. The skeptical mind argues "What if the universe was always here, eternally self existent, the same way that most people see God as self existent ? This is a fair question. Lets look at what would be required if this were the case, and the evidence for and against this notion.

If the universe never began to exist then that means that the number of events in the past is infinite. But infinity is nothing more than an illusion. While I do not deny that it has truth as a mathematical concept, I do not believe that it can exist in reality. Mathematicians show that the idea of an infinite collection of things leads to self-contradictions. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. Mathematician David Hilbert said "The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea." This tells us that the number of past events is finite. The universe cannot just go back forever so the universe must have begun to exist.

I have shown that the universe is not infinite meaning it begun to exist.

(1) Whatever begins to exist requires a cause
(2) The universe began to exist
(3) Therefore the universe requires a cause

By the standard laws of logical reasoning this is true.[2]



The cause of the universe:


(1)What caused the universe is not inside of space.
(2)Is also temporal meaning it never began to exist the cause is eternal
(3)The cause is not material there was matter before the big bang

We know space, time, and matter began to exist. What could have caused them to begin to exist ?

(1)abstract objects like numbers
(2)Our minds

This cause created the physical universe, the cause is supernatural(because it brings nature into being and is not inside of nature itself) The cause violates the law of conservation of matter is therefore performing a miracle.

The cause of the universe is supernatural and it performed a miracle. The cause of the universe must be God by definition is the creator and ruler of the universe.


The complex order in the universe :

The nature of the universe reveals that a purely naturalistic cause for the universe is extremely unlikely and therefore illogical. You cannot say that a miraculous naturalistic event is a scientific explanation. Miracles are only possible when an immensely powerful being as shown above intervenes to cause them. When a model doesn't work, scientists must be willing to give up their model for a model that fits the facts better. In this case, the supernatural design model fits the data much better than the naturalistic random chance model.

John O'Keefe astronomer at NASA said: "We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in."

Atheists say they have the answer to why there is something rather than nothing the nothing created it. This explanation takes science and turns it on its head performing miracles of creation through unknown physics or mechanisms that are extremely unlikely to occur. The simplest explanation for the existence of all the something we see is that an extremely intelligent being by definition God willed it to happen for His own purposes and left evidence of that purpose in the nature of His creation and His communication with the creatures He created. The important things in life are not derived from the stuff we can see, but from the One who created it.[4]



By the evidence I have shown that theism is more plausible than not.











[1]http://www.godandscience.org.........
[2]http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org.........
[3]http://carm.org.........
[4]http://www.godandscience.org......
[5]http://www.godandscience.org......

xxx200

Con

1] the origin of universe

my opponent said that infinite does not exist. true. i agree. then cause of universe must be god. to this point i don't agree. scientist prove that big bang is the cause of universe and not god.

(1)What caused the universe is not inside of space.
(2)Is also temporal meaning it never began to exist the cause is eternal
(3)The cause is not material there was matter before the big bang.

the first premise has no evidence. how do you know What caused the universe is not inside of space ? the second premises violates the non existance of infinity. something which is eternal can exist for infinite time.how do you know the cause is eternal? what is the evidence?
again there was matter before the big bang. what is the evidence of that?

the cause of the universe therefore big bang and not god.

2] The complex order in the universe :

what is miracle? miracle is something unexpected happened. our knowledge is limited. any thing that happened outside the boundary of our knowledge may seem to us miracle but it is not. there is always an explanation of everything. this concept of miracle therefore is like a mirage in the desert.

here my opponent arbitrarily said that god finely designed the universe thats why we can live here. now lets dug a little deeper in the issue. if god created the universe then he might have created things that harm us: virus, disease, war, femine, typhoon, natural disaster, hatred, anger, jealousy etc. now lets think that if god wants to cherish us then why he created all these things that harm us. if you want to cherish your pets, would you place them near something that destroy the pet? if you want to cherish your kids, would you place them near something that destroy the kids? the answer is no. so it is proved that there is no creator in the universe.nobody was there to cherish us, to design universe to suit us.

besides why today all kind of corrupt people are in power? if there is a god and the god is very just person, the lover of justice then what kind of justice is this act of putting corrupt people in power? this also shows that there is no almighty god at all.

now the question is how come this complex order in the universe exist? science is trying to find out that yet.


3]Objective morality:

it is a ridiculously self-contradictory concept. morality exist in our mind.If everyone was brainwashed into thinking it is morally right, torturing people just for fun would still be wrong. how do you know that? when we say right, an act becomes right. when we say wrong, an act becomes wrong. so our view is the key that changes the world, tagging them either right or wrong. for example: in middle ages burning witch is considered morally good. but now even the idea is considered bad. so it is we human being that tag something good or bad and then only things become good or bad. the difference in morality is the cause of difference in culture.

so morality is highly subjective.

there is no such thing as god. only we exist.
Debate Round No. 2
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

IveGotUrOuts forfeited this round.
xxx200

Con

xxx200 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

IveGotUrOuts forfeited this round.
xxx200

Con

xxx200 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
Is this the judeo christian god?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by K.GKevinGeary 4 years ago
K.GKevinGeary
IveGotUrOutsxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: ;gkbh
Vote Placed by Mrparkers 4 years ago
Mrparkers
IveGotUrOutsxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: There wasn't a lot of debating, but I gave conduct to Con because Pro plagiarized his arguments.