Does God exist, is there a creator of the universe?
I hope to accomplish not a win, but rather a thought in the mind of each reader. I do not make rhetoric statements simply to win people over, I want them to truly think it and put thought into it in their lives. I hope that the readers, and my opponent, can ask themselves this question that I am about to ask. For those who believe in a God, a God or Gods of any kind and stature, what would it take to shake your very foundation? what would it take for you to say you are wrong and that you would dismiss your belief in a God or Gods? What would it take? To answer ahead, for me, it is many things. I will keep it short and say empirical scientific evidence that can show, without a doubt, said being exist.
I will end this here and thank anyone who actually puts the effort to read this and our debate. Thank you.
I will be using an argument I had formulated several weeks ago in an attempt to disprove atheism. I call it the Lottery Argument, I list all of the things that are beneficial to existence which could conceivably be different and the percentage of these things being created by random chance and carried genetically. I have(of course) heard the argument that the biological complexity that we have all around us is due to Evolution of DNA, but Evolution is only a sliver of the story. Humanity(even with evolution) could not have been so biologically perfect upon their creation(well not without intelligent design), having a heart, blood, arms, a cage of bone around our most important organ. It all seems quite suspicious from an atheistic standpoint, we could not have grown a heart or arms or legs by evolutionary process, these are things we have had since the dawn of creation. Here is my mathematics to prove that, I shall list everything amazing about the world that I can think of off the top of my head, saying that the chances of these things occurring as they did by a mindless Big Bang is one in a thousand(I think that is quite conservative, the chances of a heart randomly created and put in a perfect strategic position with a cage of bone around it and blood to pump is hardly one in a thousand but nonetheless I shall keep my percentage of 0.1 for all below phenomenon):
4. Reproductive system
11. Pancreas(modern humanity can live without one but in its primitive state we would not have a chance)
13. Kidney(same case as pancreas)
18. Immune system
21. Perfect gravity
22. Perfect electromagnetism
23. The sun
25. Strong nuclear force
33. The sheer quantity of elements
34. The ability of electrons to react with other elements
39. Earth's perfect position in regard to the sun
40. The quantity of fresh water
41. The fact that plants breath out oxygen
44. Our blood cells which are able to fight disease
45. The earth's size
46. The perfect combination of gases in the atmosphere
47. Cellular respiration, food energy
49. Humanities ability to grow
Here we have fifty things which would not likely be caused by a random explosion of particles. If the chances of each of these phenomena is 0.1 percent(which I have already stated) then the chances of a universe this amazing(purely by random chance) is one in 5,629,499,534,213,120. It would be equivalent to winning the lottery(roughly one in 175 million), 3.22 billion times......In a row. Being a logical thinker(as I think you are after looking at several of your past debates) you must not be able to believe that an individual could win the lottery 3.22 billion times in a row(or having each of your 152.9 billion friends being attacked by a shark or having each of your 805 billion other friends being struck by lightning). It just could not happen. If you won the lottery that many times in a row, would you think that
A. You are an insanely lucky individual or
B. That the system has been hacked
If the answer is B then you of course must give a thought to theism.
The next argument I'd like to present is the First Cause argument, perhaps the most famous argument for the existence of God. It states that the universe could not have created itself because the universe did not have a cause to create itself. If its creation is just random chance, what force was there to make the universe expand so quickly? Forces cannot be created, unless you believe there is some innate force that just created itself but what force was there to create that force? As you know if you've had any background in physics, a force cannot create itself. Humans can create forces but that is because we have been created by another force which has been created by another force and so on and so forth. An effect cannot just create itself without a cause and therefore there must be an ultimate cause.....God. The Big Bang theory defies several laws of physics already making big assumptions that many of the laws of physics were created moments after the Big Bang.
And now, a series of logical statements which are able to prove the existence of God.
1. If something exists, there must exist what it takes for that thing to exist.
2. The universe"the collection of beings in space and time"exists.
3. Therefore, there must exist what it takes for the universe to exist.
4. What it takes for the universe to exist cannot exist within the universe or be bounded by space and time.
5. Therefore, what it takes for the universe to exist must transcend both space and time.
Transcending space and time not only defies logic but also physics and science since something must take up some space for it to exist at all. All of these statements can be justified with further logic which at this time I am not going to use because I have more things to get to.
Here is another logical argument for the existence of God similar to the statements made above.
1. We experience the universe as intelligible. This intelligibility means that the universe is graspable by intelligence.
2. Either this intelligible universe and the finite minds so well suited to grasp it are the products of intelligence, or both intelligibility and intelligence are the products of blind chance.
3. Not blind chance.
4. Therefore this intelligible universe and the finite minds so well suited to grasp it are the products of intelligence.
I have provided four logical arguments why the universe must have been created by a God.
So, since we never had an opening statement I wish to use this as such. I do not think it will be much or hard to counter Mr Philosophy123. I think that if we are to argue a point, we should be clear in what we are arguing about, right? Clearly one side is defending that the universe in all we know was created by intelligence, but not just intelligence, intelligence of a God. My position is frankly more broad. An atheistic view is not the universe self creating itself, it could be that this is a simulation or a prototype or experimental universe, created by some alien species. That too is very much an atheistic view because atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods.
So, what would I be arguing? Well I can not argue the universe made itself because it would be a loaded question and debate if I was, the atheistic view has no set creation and neither does science. We all have the same facts, we just do not all like them or agree wit them, but they remain facts.
Star and Planet Formation
I wish to go by a few things many creationist and theist go by, and as such I wish to use some points my opponent made without actually discussing his exact argument while explaining the creation. There is one simple and very short answer on the creation, I do not know and neither do you. I do not know, nor can argue how the universe was created, it's impossible and a flawed question and topic. If you look to the sky now, likely better at night, you will see tiny lights, stars. You have rogue planets and rogue stars, you have solar systems and in fact we have both observed planets 'forming' and stars forming. About 450 light years off, there is a baby planet and a star forming a solar disk, making what we have here.  
What does this mean? This tells us that we have objects forming, going through what our system did once. The thing is, Ladies and Gentleman, the universe is going on with or without us. We have completely little affect on what happens in the sense that it will continue forming even with us gone.
Random And Evolution, Intelligent or Just Is?
Is everything random? Both cosmic and biological evolution and the big bang? No, and the same likely can be said for the big bang. There is a mind experiment you can do with this one, and we see it with the universe. Everything is in a way, predetermined. It isn't yet is. There is no free will and because of this, things will happen accordingly. The universe is the same, as we are in fact the universe. If I were to drop a glass of water, an X amount of variables will occur regardless what anyone thinks. Let us say there are 2 variables, it lands perfectly flat and does not break and the water hits the sides one or two times. Now the other is it break on the left side. A simplistic view, but it's better to view it small than large. With those two variables, each one sprouting a set number of branches themselves. This goes on and on, only growing branches for variables that can happen.
If you study it perfectly and know it well, you will know there is really only one variable, because you know with all the things you are doing, only the aid outcome will happen. But not with our minds, no one really sees that, this is why we call things random. So when you dropped the glass of milk, it was already determined to have that thing happen, you brain works very much the same way, working and acting based on things occurring and what needs to happen with the things around. If you had the ability to know all outcomes, you could predict the future. This is mathematical probability. Because of this, we as humans would have ended up here, the 99.99% of species ever living on earth would have died and so on. We are not well designed, we are designed for the environment we are in, which is set by evolution by natural selection, working on that very theory I just brought up. So no, nothing is random and as such neither is evolution, cosmic and biological.
Time - Dr. Hawking
As we know, and can trace via observations, their was no time before the big bang, it came with the big bang.
The theistic argument normally goes cause and effect. Everything has a cause, therefore if the universe has a cause, God is the cause. That can be argued on God also. However, Cause and effect only work in time, there was no time prior to the Big Bang, therefore there was no time for God.
Dr. Hawking argues:
1) Causes must precede their effects in time
4) Theism requires that God be the cause of the universe
It can not be stressed that the universe is not well designed. It is argued that if you moved Earth from it's spot, we would all die. This is not true as with physics and mathematics you can move the planet closer or further from the sun and still be perfectly fine.
It is also argued that if gravity on a scale was tuned in other way, we would all die. This is also not true. We as humans evolved into what we are as did our ancestors and relatives (plants and other living beings) to the conditions of the earth and the universe, which is also flat. This can make delusions with people to think we are well designed as is the universe, but it isn't. 99% of the entire universe is uninhabitable for life like us. There are also billions to trillions of planets in our galaxy alone with billions upon billions of galaxies in the known universe, making easily sextillion planets in the entire universe. How is it the universe and out planet are designed but we can not live in most of it and there are other planets and galaxies clearly showing we are not the prime creation?
Sadly I am out of time, too many things prevented an on time and clear opening, but I leave these to explain the universe.
1) Star Forming. http://www.iflscience.com... & http://www.iflscience.com...
2) Baby Planet and New Solar Disk, Discovery. http://news.discovery.com...
3) The Grand Design, Stephen Hawking.
4) Time, the Big Bang, and creation, Dr. Stephen Hawking. http://www.hawking.org.uk...
Philosophy123 forfeited this round.
Philosophy123 forfeited this round.
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