The Instigator
Mariodude34500
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
qwzx
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Does God exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Mariodude34500
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,232 times Debate No: 70979
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (41)
Votes (2)

 

Mariodude34500

Con

Only two things.

1. Pro will have the burden of proof because they are making the positive claim
2. Don't use the bible to prove the bible is true. That's like saying batman books prove batman is true.

Good luck to whoever accepts.
qwzx

Pro

I will enjoy this debate very much ;).
Bring it on!
Debate Round No. 1
Mariodude34500

Con

You have to present you're evidence first since you have burden of proof and my job is to debunk it
qwzx

Pro

Many scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light known as the Big Bang. This was the start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter. In Genesis 1:3, God said"Let there be light". This is a logical explanation for the Big Bang.

Sources- Me and the Bible
Debate Round No. 2
Mariodude34500

Con

So first you gave a summary of what scientist think happened the big bang. Then after that summary your arguments was The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter. In Genesis 1:3, God said"Let there be light". This is a logical explanation for the Big Bang.

Two things. One god of the gaps arguments which is just saying I don't know therefore god. Which is funny because that means scientists are saying "we don't know but we think this is how it happened" verses you saying "I don't know Therefore I somehow do know"

Also you said the universe didn't always exist it had to have a beginning. So if the universe couldn't always exist and have to have a creator then where did god come from? If the universe couldn't always exist then god couldn't he's far more complex then the universe so he must have had a creator so who created god. Also who created whatever created god and so on. If you're going to say god always existed then why couldn't the universe have always existed.
qwzx

Pro

Your Question: Where did God come from?

My Answer: There is nothing in the Bible that says God the Father is a created Being or that he made Jesus Christ. If something or someone created God then not only does it mean he is NOT deity (by most people's definition), but it also begs still more questions like who or what created our Creator?

Something has always had to exist, whether it is matter or spirit, intelligent or inanimate. This is because (in a principle going back to ancient Greek philosophy) SOMETHING can never come from or out of NOTHING. A vacuum or void can never produce matter. The universal law of cause and effect states the principle that what a thing DOES is based on what it IS. Because a void, by its very definition, contains nothing and therefore has nothing as a CAUSE, it cannot produce anything (e.g. matter) as an EFFECT.

Either God, as an intelligent Being, has always existed or matter has. It is either one or the other. Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.

The 'Big Bang,' of itself, was not the first or initial cause of the material universe we see today. Rather, God's choice (as the first true 'cause') brought everything into existence using the Big Bang.

Concerning Jesus, the Bible boldly states that he was "with God in the beginning" (John 1:1 - 3, 14). Paul wrote to the church in Philippi concerning the nature of Jesus that our Savior was God and therefore was not claiming something that was not his when he lived on the earth (Philippians 2:6 - 7).Among the more powerful statements made by Jesus declaring who he was and where he had come from came when he was speaking to some Jews who believed in him. He told them "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58). These Jews KNEW Jesus was claiming to be deity! The fact that they knew this was that, after Christ spoke these words, they immediately began to pick up stones to KILL HIM right then and there for the crime (in their minds) of blasphemy (see verse 59)! The law required a blasphemer to be stoned. They fully understood Christ was making the claim that He was the GOD who spoke to Moses through the miracle of the burning bush (Exodus 3:14).

By the use of the name "I AM," God is making the statement that He is ETERNAL. There never was a time when he did not exist and there never will be a time when He will not exist. In fact, TIME itself is a human concept and bears no relationship to his existence in the spirit realm.

The concept of an eternal Being is beyond normal human comprehension. The world's wisest man, Solomon, wrote that man cannot ultimately fathom all the things about God and what he has accomplished (Ecclesiastes 3:10 - 11).

God IS, WAS and WILL BE. He did not come from anywhere since he is eternal. Rather than being created, he is the CREATOR and the One who sustains everything that we see in this physical universe and that we do not see in the spiritual realm.
Debate Round No. 3
Mariodude34500

Con

First of all I said in the first round don't use the bible to prove the bible and you did exactly that.

The first thing you say is nothing can't create something. Well there are ideas about how it could but the big bang doesn't argue that. It says there was most likely a very small particle of energy that exploded and expanded that over time through natural laws created planets and stars and everything else.

Then you said either god or matter had to always exist but it couldn't be matter because otherwise the second law of thermodynamics says that all stars would be burned out so god must exist. Really they all would have burned out? You don't know that your just guessing. Also the second law of thermodynamics is under serious question as to if it's even true. There for it must be god. Again where did god come from. If something had to always exist doesn't it seem more likely to be a tiny particle then a complex being more complex then the entire universe. Also if everything that exists must have a designer and god exists then god must have a designer so who is that? and who designed him? and so on.

Then the rest of your argument is "the bible said it so it must be true" which I already pointed out is intellectually dishonest. Again that's like saying Batman books say batman is really so batman must be real.

However I have two questions for you.

1. If jesus did all these impressive things and claimed to be the son of god. Why was he never written about in his time. There where historians who kept track of everyone who claimed to be prophet in the place and time jesus supposedly lived and then never mentioned him. Why is that exactly

2. If you think you can use the bible to prove the bible why not use the Quran to prove the Quran is true. Why is every other religion silly and not true but yours it totally factual please explain that.
qwzx

Pro

1. That is where you are wrong, the new testament was written during his time. His family, disciples and historians recorded what he did during his life. All these writings and teachings were then spread through the roman empire.

2. I am a Christian so I used the bible more than the Qur'an but, if you really want proof.......

The Qur'an also hints about the future.
3:112 in the Qur'an hints at the holocaust as it states a great punishment for the Jews.
It predicted humans would one day fly ( airplanes)

Finally where did the energy that created the world come from?

What future or things said and explained in batman was never proven correct and is generally known as fiction.

The bible has predicted so many historical moments and it is not using luck.

The bible predicted the rise and fall of Babylon, Persia, Macedonia, and Rome.

It does not seem like a simple work of fictional literature.

How can you explain such a phenomenon?
Debate Round No. 4
Mariodude34500

Con

Argument one of your I was talking about outside the bible I don't count that because again that's using the bible to prove the bible.

Next you say the Quran predicts the future but you say your a christian so that's weird. You say it predicts we will be able to fly. That's meaningless we would do that anyway how about this. I predict one day we will have flying cars. If we do does that make me god?

Where did the energy that created the universe come from. Well the simple answer is we don't know? we have many ideas but we don't know. However for you to say we don't know so it must be god is a god of the gaps argument. I bet you will do that. Maybe the energy always existed. You say god always existed so why could energy have always existed.

Then you say the bible predicts the rise and fall of several empires. I have read the bible back to front it doesn't. If it does site passages don't just say it does.
qwzx

Pro

There are also other historical records of Israel and the bible events in other nations. There is also proof of the people in the Bible. People have found proof of King Solomon's reign as a rock in northern Israel stating the king of Israel. Ever king mentioned in the bible was proven true and was correctly chronologically ordered. The bible is so accurate National Geographic and the Smithsonian branch of anthropology stars that the Bible is not just some make-believe fairy tale. SOME theologists believe that the energy that started the world was God. The bible does predict the rise and falls of the empires in Daniel 2 verse 24 - 49.
Debate Round No. 5
41 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
What about the Qur'an?
The book of Buddha?
The book of Hinduism?
Are you saying the bible is more reliable than all those books?
Why?
What evidence do you have?
There is more evidence against the bible than for it, as far as I am concerned.
Posted by DocPenguin 1 year ago
DocPenguin
If the bible isn't a good reliable source why would it be written? Think about it, it says stories of real people, like Moses and King Soloman!
Posted by DocPenguin 1 year ago
DocPenguin
You guys are stupid really the bible says that the empires (before it was written) would fall and when it would it shows clear evidence that God exists!
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
I love it when Christians talk about how there is so much evidence for the bible but then they never present any.
Posted by lol.1 1 year ago
lol.1
k sorry
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
@lol.1 if you're going to quote me, at least say the quote is from me aha. But how is that quote relevant to this? I get the debate topic is "Does God exist" but that of what I said is really random to add. What I was responding to was a completely different rebuttal to what is being said here.
Posted by lol.1 1 year ago
lol.1
repost btw
Posted by lol.1 1 year ago
lol.1
Unicorns exist, but they're not real.
Leprechauns exist, but they're not real.
Santa Clause exists, but he's not real.

You also say that just because someone made him up, doesn't mean he's not real.
Again you can do that with the mythical creatures and such.
People made up unicorns and leprechauns, but doesn't mean they're not real.
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Sounds like a God of the Gaps argument.
Scientists can't explain it, therefor God.
We don't know, therefor God.

Also the bible CLEARLY states that the earth was created first. It is also clear that the light was the sun.

Genesis
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day."

It is obvious the Big Bang has nothing to do with the beginning of the bible.
Posted by qwzx 1 year ago
qwzx
Just to let you know (I just turned 12 this March). This is also my first debate;)
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Mariodude34500qwzxTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments and conduct go to Con. He debunked all pros statements and pro gave no real evidence and kept using the bible to prove the bible when it was said that the bible isn't real evidence. Pro talked about there being lots of evidence for the bible but did not present any while con gave good explanations and back up what he had to say. While pro did use sources, the only source was the bible which is an unreliable source therefore I will not give any points to pro for reliable sources.
Vote Placed by jhenley9111 1 year ago
jhenley9111
Mariodude34500qwzxTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro continued to use bible verses even when it was established that the Bible is not sufficient evidence. It seems as if Pro spends more time assuming things than looking at the evidence.