The Instigator
Ariesx
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Does God exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Ariesx
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 817 times Debate No: 86643
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (37)
Votes (1)

 

Ariesx

Con

Round 1-Acceptance, Round 2-Cases, Round 3-Rebuttals, Round 4-Defense
I will be proving the idea that God does not exist, and my opponent will prove that God does exist.
I will let my opponent have the freedom of deciding which religion they want to defend which can be deism.
brontoraptor

Pro

I would like to thank "Con" for the opportunity to debate a deep subject such as this one.

I will be "pro" in this debate, and will be defending the concept that "God does exist" from the Christian perspective.

Here's to a great debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Ariesx

Con

Before debating, I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. It has been a long time since I have done a religious debate.

1. Burden of proof- Let's start with the obvious argument my opponent will have to address. Where is God? Why can't we see God? Why does he not reveal himself in the age of cameras? What does the Christian God have against gays? Alright, now I know what my opponent might say to counter these assertions, but I will leave my counter argument hear. If my opponent tries to claim that there is intelligent design, and the universe originated from a designer; who created the designer. Who created the Christian God? My opponent can say that God had no creator, but this would be false, because there is already a logic here that one must follow. The logic is that everything created must have a designer. Than the designer must have been created? The logic would have to stay consistent. And, this designer has problems with gay people. Gay people have been proven to have differences in there DNA which result in them having the same gender attraction. This has been proven scientifically, and cannot be denied. Wouldn't the all powerful Christian God predict this to happen. If that is so, than he is bound to send someone to hell for doing nothing wrong.

2. Representation- For an intelligent designer, he is quite pathetic at getting the message across that he himself is the all powerful God.
Clockwise from the North Pole, they are: Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Wicca and some other Neopagan religions, Zoroastrianism, and Druidism.
http://www.religioustolerance.org...
Christianity- 2 billion people
Islam- 1.2 billion people
Hinduism- 900 million people
Buddhism- 350 million people
Sikhism- 25 million people
Juche- 24 million people
Judaism- 14.6 million people
Baha'ism-7 million people
Jainism - 5 million people
Shintoism-4 million people
http://www.osmeb.com...
Christianity excludes 5 billion people. This is pathetic coming from an all powerful, all knowing, God. If God had an IQ of above 110, he would just appear on Earth or on a camera, and tell everybody he is real. He will confirm Christianity, and all of the other people will actually be saved. His ideas will be embraced and followed devoutly.

God is a hypocrite-
Morality-principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.
Love-1.an intense feeling of deep affection:
As all Christians will plead you to understand that God is a loving moral God. Well, is it moral to watch somebody die, and you have the power to save them?
Do you watch your loved ones starve to death?
Well, you might be way more efficient at practicing these ideas than God is.
God is everywhere at once. That means he is watching people die all the time, and also watching people in hell all the time.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...
The UN has reported that 18,000 children die of starvation everyday. That means more than 5 million children die every year. God is watching all this happen, and does not do a thing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
4,400 people die everyday of HIV. More than 1 million people die every year of HIV. God is watching. 6 million people have been estimated to die in the holocaust, and God just watches. Wars rage on, and God just watches, because he loves us, and cares for us.

Violent versus in the Bible
These verses make you wish that God does not exist.
1. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."This is what the Lord Almighty says... "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."" (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27) Against Gay People

4. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

5. "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)

God can bare all of this. He is a sexist, supports slavery, and is a murder who stares at human atrocities all the time.
brontoraptor

Pro

*Kalam Argument

1)Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

2)The universe began to exist.

3)The universe has a cause.

4)And any arguments of pre-causality have a regress of infinite causality, causing a paradox.


Fermi Paradox "The unexplained silence"

*The Fermi Paradox- or Fermi's paradox, is the contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations, such as in the Drake equation, and the lack of evidence for such civilizations in our galaxy and/or observable universe. By probability alone the galaxy and/or observable universe should be teaming with life.


*I present Biblical prophecies concerning the end of days.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God." (Revelation 20:4)

Here are some stories concerning Christian beheaded by ISIS for not denouncing Jesus.



(Speaking of the "Antichrist" in the end of days.)

"But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces, a god whom his fathers knew not." (Daniel 11:38)

Note: When this prophecy was written Islam and "Allah" did not exist yet.

The Antichrist will sign a seven year covenant with Israel (Dan 9: 27). He will not fully honor that covenant but will break it somewhere in the middle of the 7 years. He has supernatural power.

Islam declares that the Mahdi will lead the Muslim armies to conquer Israel. Jerusalem will then be the location of the Caliphate and the center of Sharia rule. One hadith places the timing of this event when a final peace agreement is made between the Arabs and the Christians and mediated through a Jewish priest. This agreement is for 7 years. He is described as having supernatural power.


The Antichrist of the Bible will rule a one world government that worships a not-yet-existing "god". "Allah" did not exist until 600 years after the Bible's last words were written.


The West has opened up their country's doors to a Muslim immigration. Islam is spreading in the Western world today faster than any other religion by far.


The Quran and Islam believe they will control the world under a one world Islamic government ruled by Sharia.


(Speaking of the Antichrist and those who follow his god)

Together they will go to war against the Lamb(The lamb being the symbol of Christ the "lamb of God", a symbol of Christianity.) (Revelation 17:14)

Headline: "ISIS declares war on the cross"


"Wars and rumors of wars..." (Matthew 24:6)

The world will be under distress with perplexity. (Luke 21:25)

-Donald Trump: "...Until we figure out what the hell is going on."

-N. Korea threatens U.S.


-"Death to Israel"


"Death to the West!"


-Russia warns of world war


"The great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up." (Revelation 16:12)

-Iraq says Turkey needs to release more water from its dams to replenish the river in the former Fertile Crescent area where drought-like conditions endanger millions.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-01/water-shortages-unite-iraq-islamic-state-against-turkey

About 1/3 of people wiped out on Earth. (Revelation 9:18)


The world is split into approximate thirds. And Islam is the fastest growing religion on Earth, expected to catch Christianity soon. Christians, Muslims, and Other.
Debate Round No. 2
Ariesx

Con

From what I make of the argument presented; it seems that my opponent is trying to prove that God and Christianity exist because of prophecies that are coming true. Everything that my opponent has described is open up to interpretation just like everything else in the Bible.

Kalam Argument:
I believe that I have already gave a effective response to your argument in round 2 which I will leave an antidote of here.
If the Universe has a cause, than
God has a cause.
If God has a cause, than the creator of God has a cause.
There is a paradox here which my opponent fails to counter, because it makes zero sense, and fails to counter anything.

Bible Prophesies
"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God." (Revelation 20:4)
-So are you saying that any Christian that is executed is a sign of the end of days, because Christians have been killed throughout history.

"The first documented case of imperially supervised persecution of the Christians in the Roman Empire begins with Nero (37"68). In 64 AD, a great fire broke out in Rome, destroying portions of the city and economically devastating the Roman population. Some people suspected Nero himself as the arsonist, as Suetonius reported,[9] claiming he played the lyre and sang the 'Sack of Ilium' during the fires. In his Annals, Tacitus (who wrote that Nero was in Antium at the time of the fire's outbreak), stated that "to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians (or Chrestians)[10] by the populace" (Tacit. Annals XV, see Tacitus on Jesus). Suetonius, later to the period, does not mention any persecution after the fire, but in a previous paragraph unrelated to the fire, mentions punishments inflicted on Christians, defined as men following a new and malefic superstition. Suetonius however does not specify the reasons for the punishment, he just lists the fact together with other abuses put down by Nero
By the mid-2nd century AD, mobs could be found willing to throw stones at Christians, and they might be mobilized by rival sects. The Persecution in Lyon in which Christians were mass-slaughtered by being thrown to wild beasts under the decree of Roman officials for reportedly refusing to renounce their faith according to St. Irenaeus[12] was preceded by mob violence, including assaults, robberies and stonings"
https://en.wikipedia.org...
Could one interpret this as a sign of the end of days? This is up to interpretation, and this could be presumed to be the End of Days.

Now, my opponent goes on to make a ridiculous claim that Islam is actually caused by the Antichrist. This is the most ridiculous claim that anyone has taken seriously in a long time, and I will address why this is out of proportion.
1. Muhammed specifically claims he talks to the God of Christianity and Judaism.
2. Muhammed and his followers call Christians and Jews the people of the book.
3. Muslims believe in Moses, Jesus, Noah, and many other beliefs that Christians agree with.
4. Allah means God in English.
For a Christian to come along, and proclaim his religion superior to Islam is arrogant, because the religion that came before was Judaism. Jews think that Christians are wrong just as Christians think Muslims are wrong. Looking at this is like looking at the embodiment of ignorance.

Islam conquers. My opponent seems to have a problem with Arabs gaining power for themselves.
The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition (Spanish: Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisici"n), commonly known as the Spanish Inquisition (Inquisici"n espa"ola), was established in 1478 by Catholic Monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile. It was intended to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and to replace the Medieval Inquisition, which was under Papal control. It became the most substantive of the three different manifestations of the wider Christian Inquisition along with the Roman Inquisition and Portuguese Inquisition. The "Spanish Inquisition" may be defined broadly, operating "in Spain and in all Spanish colonies and territories, which included the Canary Islands, the Spanish Netherlands, the Kingdom of Naples, and all Spanish possessions in North, Central, and South America." For the period during which Portugal and Spain were under common rule consult Portuguese Inquisition and Goa Inquisition.
https://en.wikipedia.org...
Garc"a C"rcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000; applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560"1700"about 2%"the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death.

Christianity has a lot of blood on its hands. Christianity motivated the British, Spanish, and Germans to go for imperialism.
People like my opponent thought that Hitler was the anti-Christ, but he died. And, I think my opponent overestimates the power of Isis.

12
The U.S. government has positively identified a relatively small number of Americans-fewer than 12 - who have joined ISIS, but precise numbers are unavailable and intelligence assessments, while educated, are still estimates due to limited U.S. intelligence in Syria, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports.
ISIS is spreading like fire.
America is the number one military power. You are overestimating a little threat that proves how na"ve you are.

Violent versus in the Bible
These verses make you wish that God does not exist.
1. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."This is what the Lord Almighty says... "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."" (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27) Against Gay People

4. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

5. "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)
Please address this.
brontoraptor

Pro

Where is God?

He would be outside of our reality in the same way a programmer is outside of the virtual realities and programs he creates.

Why can't we see God?

For the same reason the Sims in Sim City cannot see us. They are in their reality. We are outside of their reality.

Why doesn't he reveal himself?

To Christians He did 2,000 years ago. He will reveal Himself another time as well.(2nd Coming)

What does God have against homosexuals?

A: Morality is subjective. Muslims view it as worthy of death in the Sharia. Jesus never mentioned it. He was presented an "adulterer"(sexual immorality), but said,"He who is without sin cast the first stone." I apply this in my perception of homosexuals. I do not judge them, as I would hope to not be judged for my own perceived shortcomings.

Who created the designer?

A: By virtue of the Kalam argument, anything in our reality would need a cause, thus we need an uncaused entity to satisfy the paradox. This uncaused entity would have to be from a reality that transcends our time, space, and laws of physics, similar to a programmer not being subject to the laws of the virtual reality he creates.

Why are there different religions or lack of belief?

The Bible states there are forces other than God that are allowed to effect humanity. Christianity is a religion. Hearing the voice of God is something all together different.

Why doesn't God heal people/keep them from dying?

To a Christian, life is eternal. This is a reality effected by man and entities other than God alone due to what God deemed fair in a sinful reality. (Matthew 13:30)

Is God watching people in Hell all the time?

Hell is seperation from God in the Bible. We cannot say what "Hell" would be because it would be speculation, for judgement is measured by weights and measures. Jesus spoke in parables to explain hard concepts. Everyone has a different level of knowledge, mercy, love, etc. If one truely fully rejects God, they have chosen the seperation. We cannot force a spouse to stay married to us at heart.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

This is an argument that assumes morality is objective. A rank of command in the military is not deemed "immoral". Nevertheless, many Christians deem this as the opinion of Paul in reference to the customs of his culture at the time.

(Joyce Meyer on women preaching)


- (1 Samuel 15:3)

A: God is omniscient, thus we cannot know what He could see. We do not know anything about these people. If God knew the negative effects of their existance He would have to make a decision accordingly. We would have to agree on what morality is in a war situation. Do you defeat your enemy? How much defeat is moral? What are the results if we leave survivors? Will survivors result in having to fight them again?

-(Romans 1:27) Against Gay People.

A: Subjective. We don't know that being with another man was the actual shameless act or error. It may have led to other things we are unaware of. Nevertheless, this point assumes morality is objective and the same for everyone, and it is not relevant to God's existance.

1.Muhammed specifically claims he talks to God of Christianity/Judaism.

A: He also was accused of demon posession as a child and thought the angel he got his Revelation from was a demon. Satan poses as God in the Bible and is worshipped as god. In Revelation it says there will be no words added, so to a Christian, the Quran is a violation of this warning.

2. Muhammed and his followers call Christians and Jews the people of the book.

A:The Quran also says to kill them.

3. Muslims believe in Moses, Jesus, Noah...

A: Muslims do not believe Jesus is the "Son of God" nor is He divine which by the Bible is untrue. Satan is a liar and "subtle" in the Bible.

4. Allah means God in English.

A: God has a name in Judaism and Christianity. In Islam, their god is nameless.

Judaism vs Christianity

A: From a logic viewpoint, Jesus is the fulfillment of 300+ prophecies in Judaism of the Messiah. Islam fulfills neither Judaism or Christianity in any way. It is a seperate account completely and the Quran denounces Jews and Christians. This is why Islam in general has a negative view of Israel and the West.

-Arrogance towards other beliefs.-

A: The words of the Quran force me to discern it. Christ rejected many Old Testament ideas.(John 8:5-7) The Quran has no New Testament. It stands alone.




I see words in the Quran and discern the book. I don't condemn individuals for each person is unique. I believe Christ is the only way, but I do not speculate on who has Him or who has God. I care for all people, but reject the book. Here is one take on the subject:


-

(An Atheist ex Christian on Christ)

Debate Round No. 3
Ariesx

Con

With all of the evidence that Pro has stated, I am still left deeply unsatisfied, and I can only speculate that the majority of people with foreign beliefs are also feeling the same way. I will specify why this is, and how the Christian God does not exist.
1. A lot of Pro's arguments are up to interpretation. He has quoted revelations many times to prove God exists, but how all of these quotes can be interpreted differently to different people in different time. He has dropped this argument in round 3.
2. He insults a religion practiced by 1.2 billion people by calling there prophet a Satanist which is arrogant and ignorant. He provides no sources for him to give anyone a reason to believe that Muhammed was a Satanist.

Demon possession:
This is absurd, and can be said about any prophet during these times. Jesus was accused of a lot of things.
"Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry, since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God.[3][4] Jewish eschatology holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple, a Messianic Age of peace[5] and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth,[6] and since Jews believe that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards), he is not a candidate for messiah."
https://en.wikipedia.org...
Jesus was perceived to be a man that was trying to gain power, and very deceptive and idealistic. He was viewed as a radical by the Roman Empire that was trying to overthrow the central government. He was viewed by the Jewish common man as a person who has a huge ego to call himself God. He was also called an idiot traveling place to place teaching idealism.
https://williamshiggins.wordpress.com...
Since, we live in America, and we see only positive things about Jesus. One can look at this verse, and say that tax collectors and prostitutes hung out with Jesus. This means that Jesus could have wanted power, and sex. This is all in probability, but this is what happens when a man with bias can look on another man, and distort what is going on like what Pro is doing to Muhammed.

Salaam (Peace be on you) as taught by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Salaam (Peace be on you)And when those who believe in Our communications come to you, say: Peace be on you, your Lord has ordained mercy on Himself... Noble Qur'an (6:54)

Our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sitting one day with his Companions (Sahabah) and they were talking together. A person came in without asking permission and didn't even offer his Salaam (Islamic Greeting).

"Why didn't you say Salaam (Peace be on you)?" and "Why didn't you ask permission to come in?" questioned Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

"Go back. Ask our permission and greet us with your Salaam (Peace be on you) before you come in," Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instructed.
http://www.ezsoftech.com...
Regarding Salaam (Islamic Greeting), Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has told us:

O Muslims! You will not enter Paradise unless you are kind to each other, unless you warmly say Salaam (Peace be on you) to each other whenever you meet.

Always say Salaam (Peace be on you) in a loud voice and reply in the same way.

Allah (SWT) loves most the person who says Salaam (Peace be on you) first and gives him better rewards and blessings. First give your Salaam (Peace be on you), then say whatever you have to say.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "When you meet each other then initiate greeting (Salaam) and embrace; and when you separate from each other, then depart with seeking forgiveness."

Imam Hussain ibn Ali (as) said: "Seventy rewards is the share of the one who initiates a 'greeting (Salaam)' and only one reward belongs to the one who returns the 'greeting (Salaam)'." (When two people see each other, the initiator of the exchange of greetings receives a greater reward.)

Imam Sadiq (as) said: "He who initiates a greeting is more beloved with Allah (SWT) and His Messenger."

Note: Salaam - An Arabic word meaning peace and greetings, which Muslims uses in everyday life as per the teachings of Islam.
These are all of Muhammed's teachings.
Satan's Philosophy
We can all agree that Satan's philosophy is to corrupt man. He wants people to have sex, kill, murder, and do abortion. Try to name one Quran verse that says have sex, and masturbate. Try to name one Quran verse that is in favor of lying, cheating, and stealing. I am not talking about enemies of the religion, but against the common man who is also a Muslim.
Good luck with that.

Dropped or Unclear Arguments:
The Spanish Inquisition-He never mentions anything about how Christianity motivated the Spanish to kill 150,000 people.
Christian God- He never specifies any evidence as to how this deity is a Christian God. He gives paradox arguments which to not confirm that their is a Christian God. There can be a higher power, but it is probably not God.
4. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

5. "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)
He addresses this by saying that these writers were addressing the social norms of their times. So, your telling me that an all powerful intelligent designer gave his instructions, and in those instructions it has things he does not agree with. He is so intelligent.
Christianity- 2 billion people
Islam- 1.2 billion people
Hinduism- 900 million people
Buddhism- 350 million people
Sikhism- 25 million people
Juche- 24 million people
Judaism- 14.6 million people
Baha'ism-7 million people
Jainism - 5 million people
Shintoism-4 million people
Christianity excludes 4 billion people around the world, and basically states that since 4 billion people around the world do not believe in Christ; they are not saved. This is pathetic, and a ridiculous to say as much as it is ignorant for a Christian to defend it.
Jesus also does not care if Christians sin, because they will be forgiven. They can do anything they want, but still Jesus will not punish them.
By the mid-2nd century AD, mobs could be found willing to throw stones at Christians, and they might be mobilized by rival sects. The Persecution in Lyon in which Christians were mass-slaughtered by being thrown to wild beasts under the decree of Roman officials for reportedly refusing to renounce their faith according to St. Irenaeus[12] was preceded by mob violence, including assaults, robberies and stonings"
He claims that ISIS is an instrument to fulfilling the prophecies of the Bible, and is proof of God's existence. If this is so, than people could interpret the Roman Empire's persecution as a sign for the end of times.
http://www.genocidetext.net...
The Ottamen Empire tries to wipe out all of the Christian population from their land. This could be interpreted as a sign for the end of times. 2,000,000 Christians were killed by the Turks. How is this not a sign.
Islam Conquers- I listed the Spanish Inquisition, and my opponent fails to respond to this.

In conclusion, God basically does not exist. His basis for proving God's existence is cryptic, and can be disproved easily. Vote Con.
brontoraptor

Pro

The Fermi Paradox argument states that without a creator, by probability alone the galaxy and observable universe should be teaming with life. We hear that our galaxy has billions of stars, and think nothing of it, but think about it. Billions of stars equals billions of solar systems and over a trillion planets and that's just our galaxy. But silence...

So let's observe religion to see if we can find some ordered pattern.

-

The crescent moon is and was the symbol of Babylon well before Islam existed. Ishtar was turned into Allah, which is actually simply a nameless version of the demon Ishtar.


"Ishtar, the Moon Goddess"

Ishtar is the Babylonian goddess of war and sex.

Ishtar is represented by the same exact crescent moon and star symbol as represents Islam.


She is the morning star. In the Bible Satan is the morning star. She is sirnamed Venus. God stands against some demonic false god of the Babylonians called Venus in the book of Isaiah. God stands against the "revived Babylonian empire" in the end of days in Revelation, declaring it the habitat of demons.

With a mighty voice he shouted: "'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean creature, a haunt for every unclean and detestable thing.

(Revelation 14:2)

*The Bible warns of any new words added to the already existing revelation. The Quran claims it is an "adding on to" of the revelation that warned against there even being any added revelations.

*Muhammed's "angelic guest" later claimed to be Gabriel. This "angel" never says fear not as every Biblical angel does. It wants him afraid. Gabriel in the Bible is an angel of light. So what does it matter?

"But it is of no wonder for we understand that even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."(2 Corinthians 11:14)

'Muhammed's angelic guest'


"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he LIES, he speaks his own language, for he is a LIAR and the FATHER OF LIES." (John 8:44)

Satan = Father of lies

Allah = "The Greatest of decievers"

(S 3:54)(Quran)

The different commands and concepts for lying in Islam:

Taqiya

Tawriya

Kitman

Maruna


Muruna means using "flexibility" to blend in with the enemy or the surroundings. The justification for this kind of deception is Surah 2:106, which says, "If we abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We will replace it by a better one or similar." Thus, Muslims may forget some of the commands in the Quran, as long as they are pursuing a better command.

The second beast comes from "out of the earth" and directs all peoples of the earth to worship the first beast. The second beast is described in Revelation 13:11-18 and is also referred to as the false prophet. ("Muhammed is our prophet") The two beasts are aligned with the dragon in opposition to God. They persecute the "saints" and those who do "not worship the image of the beast" (Kaaba) and influence the leaders of the earth to gather for the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is a valley in Israel. The only group on Earth that hates Israel is Islam. Muslims say they believe the Biblical context is inspired. There's the context.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iranian leader)

-"Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a party are seriously mistaken. Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation."

-A. Merkel was said to “condemn Ahmadinejad’s words”. “We shall do everything to make clear that Israel’s right to exist is not imperiled in any way."

(Death to Israel!)


(Death to Israel chants)


The Bible says there will be terrible conflict in Israel during the end times. (Jeremiah 30:7)(Revelation)

If Israel did not still exist, the Bible would be wrong. If Israel was not surrounded by enemies seaking its destruction the Bible would be nonverified. If their enemy did not worship a "new god" that commands their destruction, the Bible would be nonverified. If the religion standing against them had no "great prophet", the Bible would be nonverified. If the "Gospel" was not being spread across the globe, the Bible would be wrong..

If the Bible's words hold true, it is proof of God's existance.

Nucleur Deal


Muslim Messiah


The dilemma of the nontheist. Being wrong and wagering eternity on it..

Debate Round No. 4
37 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
Your saying that if everybody conforms to a particular idea, than it is true. In the ancient world, Judaism was not accepted at all. Right now, in America there is a rise of secularism. In Germany, everybody believed in German superiority. Your logic can easily backfire.
Posted by brontoraptor 9 months ago
brontoraptor
Islam and Christianity do not exist? They're the 2 biggest religions in the world. The religions exist, trust me.
Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Assassin801x // Mod action: Removed<

6 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Reasons for voting decision: Ariesx won for a lot of reasons. Better instead of ignoring them completely. He never really answers the Spanish Inquisition. That is a strong argument against Pro, but Pro just says Spain and Jesus are two different things. Con replies by saying how Islam and ISIS are two different things. He also lists out statistics and facts to support his argument. Ariesx also begs Pro to address the arguments he dropped. Convincing arguments: I wanted to believe that there is a God, but Con convinced be otherwise. He pointed out how Islam is a weird religion to call Satanic, because pro clearly states Islam denounces things Satan wanted.We can all agree that Satan's philosophy is to corrupt man. He wants people to have sex, kill, murder, and do abortion. Try to name one Quran verse that says have sex, and masturbate Pro also did not respond to this argument. Reliable Sources-Pro said "By probability alone the galaxy and/or observable universe should be teaming with

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn"t explain conduct. (2) Sources are unsufficiently explained. The voter has to do more than just quote Pro to explain why his sources were so bad that they warranted allocation of these points to the other side.
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Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
Muslims can have multiple wives, and the entire account of Aisha is about sex and masturbation. She was Muhammed's six year old bride and he masturbated with her at age 6. He had intercourse with her at age 9. No Muslims deny this.
Post a source.
You never addressed this in the debate, even though you had last say.
At least I know Islam and Christianity do not exist.
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
I have countered the kalam argument by basically stating that
Even if you can prove that there is a higher power, than you have still done nothing to prove he is Christian.
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
Isn't it funny how God's son is God?
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
Isn't it funny how God could not convince his chosen people that his son was the everlasting prince.
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
By probability alone the galaxy and/or observable universe
Good Grammer
And Islam is the fastest growing religion on Earth
You cannot start sentences with And.
Posted by Ariesx 9 months ago
Ariesx
Brontorapter, the debate is over. All of your arguments do not count.
My opponen'ts geammer
You said that Islam is a satanic religion. Your provide evidence that can be accounted for a lot of historical examples. People thought Hitler was the antichrist. People thought The Roman Empire was the Anti-Christ for its persecution of Christians. People thought that the Ottoman Empire was the antichrist for its persecution of the Christians.
Posted by brontoraptor 9 months ago
brontoraptor
Con says Christians have been persecuted for all of Christian history and killed, but this is not the prophecy. The prophecy is that they will be beheaded. Beheading of Christians is the noted form of Christian killings by ISIS today in real life.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Assassin801x 9 months ago
Assassin801x
AriesxbrontoraptorTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Reasons for voting decision: Convincing Arguments- Reasons for voting decision: Ariesx won for a lot of reasons. Better instead of ignoring them completely. He never really answers the Spanish Inquisition. That is a strong argument against Pro, but Pro just says Spain and Jesus are two different things. Con replies by saying how Islam and ISIS are two different things. He also lists out statistics and facts to support his argument. Ariesx also begs Pro to address the arguments he dropped. I wanted to believe that there is a God, but Con convinced be otherwise. He pointed out how Islam is a weird religion to call Satanic, because pro clearly states Islam denounces things Satan wanted.We can all agree that Satan's philosophy is to corrupt man. He wants people to have sex, kill, murder, and do abortion. Try to name one Quran verse that says have sex, and masturbate Pro also did not respond to this argument.