The Instigator
tala00131
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Chillwitm888
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Does God exist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/9/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 527 times Debate No: 36509
Debate Rounds (4)
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tala00131

Con

Rules
Round one if for acceptance only. Round two is for opening statements, round three if for rebuttals, round four is for closing statements.
Chillwitm888

Pro

Although, not a Christian. God may very well exist.
Debate Round No. 1
tala00131

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting my challenge. I have broken down my arguments into four major arguments. Number one: Improbability, number two: Stupid design, number three: Problem of evil, number four: Free will.
Improbability: Not only is there no evidence that any God exists, it is extremely improbable. If you think about it, a being so complex as a God who can; fine tune the universe, perform miracles has to be more complex than us. There for, his existence would be very improbable.
Stupid Design: There are many things in the universe which would kill life instantly. Such as: supernovas, radiation, asteroids. Most planet orbits are unstable, star formation is inefficient, most spots in the universe would kill life instantly (either too hot or too cold). There are over 3000 genetic disease in the human genome, our eye has a blind spot. This is just all stupid design.
Problem of evil: One child dies every four seconds, 21,000 children dies each day in Africa, most pepole in Africa die of childbirth, 14 children die every minute. Either God allows suffering (which implies he doesn't care) or he can't (which implies he's not all powerful) or he doesn't exist.
Free will: How can God have free will? If he is all knowing, then he knows the future. If he knows the future he can't change his mind, which means he has no free will. People say God is all just and all merciful. How can this be? Justice is punishing the crime as it should be, mercy is giving a punishment less savior then the crime. So one can't be merciful and just.
Chillwitm888

Pro

Please disregard my harsh comments. I do believe in harsh debate. You lack originality and creativity. You have used the same arguments for the same "Does God exist" debates for quite some while as I have read through some of your posts and its just redundant.
As you have a easier time proving that god doesn't exist, you are bad at pointing out major flaws (which I will not mention as I am the con)
Here are 2 cents from agnostic(I do believe in superior beings just not a god)
My argument accredited to amy_webbs

Though to do not see God as probable, that does not mean it is impossible. Having no public evidence of God existence does not mean he cannot exist, as there are extraordinary and unexplained events which take place every day and have since the creation of our species. It never occurs to one, that God does not show himself to the species he created because he was curious about our ability to sin? If presented with an intimidating higher power, the human race has proven that it cannot handle such power and seeks a means of destroying it. During creation, there are problems that may occur. For example, he created a "complex" species which is too arrogant for its own good because he chose for us to have free will. Being as "complex" as we are, we over thought our abilities and abused our freedom by sin, showing that we are an untrustworthy creation. Would you show yourself to such a being if you were more complex and evolved as your creation? It is arrogant and ignorant to think that we are the most complex being of his creation, there are species capable of doing thing we cannot imagine or succeed. Now, you might think, if they can do it, why didn't God give us this ability too? As our species has proven, we are untrustworthy through freewill. It would be considered a precaution he made in order to test us before giving us more then what we could handle. Thinking there is no being as complex does not make the possibilities of other complex species improbable, that merely makes one arrogant.

During creation, everything does no go to plan. The universe may not be stable in the sense which we expect or value, but that does not mean it is not stable to the values or expectation of God. One might believe that because he is "complex", the universe revolves around his existence where as it does not. One might think that such objects or events were a creation of mistake, when it may have been a means of removing a corrupt creation.You believe that because life on this planet can not exist out of its environment, nothing can? That is a false assumption. Planets with different environments may be reason for past attempts and failures of creation which God did not burden us with. It may also be a means of new creation which is improved and obedient, to whom he may want to show himself to. We may be diseased to express feelings of loss or grief, if there was no grief, how would we know what a miracle is? If one never loses something important to them, how will they know what is important to them? How can one be thankful and blessed if they cannot recognise it? It is simple, you must experience loss in order to appreciate such things. One may use stupid for lack of a better word, but it is not a "stupid" design, it may be a faulty or incomplete design, but not "stupid".

One cannot assume because God allows suffering, he does not care. As stated previously, suffering, loss or grief may be perceived as a means to acknowledge and appreciate what gifts you are given. There are some being that are not meant to be born, and other who are meant to be. How can one assume that because children die, they are all innocent? One could assume that these children who are dying are bring of evil influence. Who are you to assume that the worst being ever created are those we experience? Those historical being which we know by name and fear may have been kind compared to those who are taken. God may have foreseen their capabilities and thought to remove them rather then unleash such a wrath upon his creation. The deaths of children in Africa could be accepted as an example to others (via disease and grief) or by pure accident in creation. The free will of one within the community can cause such devastation to those around them. The free will of the human race has caused us to help little of those who need to be helped and instead follow selfishness and greed.

Free will could have possibly be given to us out of Gods need for appreciation without force. He may have wanted his creation to think as freely as he did because he understood how unsatisfactory being controlled was. He may know the future, but that does not mean he has no free will. It is possible that God changes the future in his own way in order to protect us, as stated previously. One should not assume that by seeing the future you cannot change your mind, it is an option to follow a path in which you choose. What we think is just and merciful reflects on our values rather then the values of God, he may act in such a way because his knowledge accedes ours. We are influenced by each other to understand what justice is perceived as or how merciful others should be in order for justice. That does not mean that it is right in the eyes of God, and that does not mean he will tell us other wise as we were given a freedom to think and understand. Without experiencing what his perception is, you cannot express that he does not follow justice or understand mercy.
Debate Round No. 2
tala00131

Con

tala00131 forfeited this round.
Chillwitm888

Pro

Chillwitm888 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
tala00131

Con

tala00131 forfeited this round.
Chillwitm888

Pro

Chillwitm888 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
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