The Instigator
tala00131
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
leandro.sanchez
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Does God exist?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/20/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 459 times Debate No: 36856
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

tala00131

Pro

I would like to say that there is no physical evidence for the existence of God. However, I think there are logical, and sound arguments for its existence. Here are some of those arguments.

The Cosmological Argument: Whatever begins to exist has a cause, the universe began to exist, therefore, the universe had a cause. The first premise is obviously true. It defies logic to say something can come into existence uncaused. Now, let's look at the second premise, "the universe began to exist". There is lots of scientific evidence that the universe had a beginning. This includes: the fact that the universe is expanding, the fact that the universe is running out of usable energy. Because the second premise is true, the last premise must be true. Now that we can see that the universe had a beginning, let's see what that cause must be. That cause must be, timeless, and space-less (as this cause must bring time and space). Only two things can be timeless, and space-less. Abstract objects like; numbers and symbols. Or, an unnumbered mind. Numbers and symbols can't cause anything. For example, the number 70, doesn't cause anything. This leads us to our only other option, an unembodied mind. This mind would be called God.

A fine tuned universe: When you look at the order in the universe, it is clear that it is finely tuned. For example, if the rate of expansion after the big bang was altered by as little 1 and 1000000000000000000 we would not exist. If the atomic weak force was altered by as little as 2% we wouldn't exist. The probability of this happening by chance, is almost 0.

The moral argument: If God doesn't exist, objective moral values don't exist. If God does exist, objective moral values do exist. We all know objective moral values do exist. By objective moral values, I mean morals that are true weather we like it or not. Weather we like it or not, lying is wrong. Since objective morals do exist, this follows that God exists.
leandro.sanchez

Con

english isnt my first language i apolagize for the errors i hope it will not stop us from having a pleasent debatee.
You admit there isnt prof:( I would like to say that there is no physical evidence for the existence of God. However, I think there are logical, and sound arguments for its existence. Here are some of those arguments.)
are we suppost to belive without prof?
The univers is infinit that means it began and it will never end.the universe muss have started from something eternal what means that it has always existed but it muss not be good it just means that something eternal caused the creation of the .
universe.
you said that order exist in the universe was is most certanly truth,but that doesnt mean there is a good mind behind it .
we agreed what caused the beggining of the universe is eternal lets called x (as in mathematiques for un nown factors)
X has created universes how all have collapsed because of the physiques rules and forces of the universe werent tuned propely it kepped creating universes until are univers was created because it was tuned it didnt colaps and toke the space awy from the other universes that would not be created animore because they alredy was a universe in place.
moral argument:morals are for kepping the sociaty going unleast most of them 9 of the 10 commandments
exept:you will not have another good exept me.
In my creation scenario earth is formed live beggins humans beginn to evolve and create groups to defend theme self from predators.groups how become bigger and more evolved norms are made to keep to sociaty working.These norms become moral and every thing that goes against these law are considerd imoral
Debate Round No. 1
tala00131

Pro

Please, I know English is not your first language, but use spell check. My opponent claims that the universe must be eternal. This can't be true, an expanding universe and a universe which is running out of usable energy must have had a beginning. If the universe was eternal, the universe wouldn't be expanding, because there would be nothing to start the expansion. My opponent says that the fine tuning of the universe doesn't prove God. I agree, however, it makes it likely that a God exists. The probability of the universe being finely tuned by chance, is almost 0. My opponent also claims that morals are what keeps society together. This is true, however, it does not change the fact that objective morals exist, and they are best explained by God. Imagine you saw a house burning, and you saw two children in the window, what would you do? You would help them. So, how instilled that in you?
leandro.sanchez

Con

1: I didnt say the universe is eternal you missunderstood my argument.(probely because of my english:)
what i said is the universe has emerge from something eternal that i denominatet x (unknown).
x caused the universe.
x can be god but it muss not be god.
your argument:(universe doesn't prove God. I agree, however, it makes it likely that a God exists. The probability of the universe being finely tuned by chance, is almost 0)
The probability is 100%
Let me explain why:x causes the creation of universes most universes collaps because the universe isnt tuned right .
the universe collapses and only x remains who once alone creates an other universe until one of these universes is tuned right.are universe could be the millionst result of x universe creation.

But one rule is to be added to x.x only creats universes when there isnt one alredy.
if it werent for that it would always be new univeral creation into our alredy existing universe.

morals are best explained by society.social evolution.humans have a sense of morals and social norms.societies that didnt have these morals or didnt fuction and had conflict and were defeated by well organist societies were the sociaty the group wpuld stick toghether.
This seen durring history roman vs the germans and gauls
US vs URSS(that and the end was plagued by corruption)
social democrates and communist vs the nazis
the nazis were supper organized and hade almost at the beggining no internal problemes not the case of the other german parties that coudnt unifie foe seeing the greater treath and had internall in-ballence
Debate Round No. 2
tala00131

Pro

My opponent claims that the universe came from something eternal, but it could not have been God. This doesn't make any sense. The only things that can exist outside of time are, abstract objects, or minds. As I already explained, Abstract objects can't cause anything. My opponent also says that there are many universes, and some of them are fine tuned and some are not. He gave no evidence for the hypothesis of many universes.
leandro.sanchez

Con

firts,i dint claim the eteranl object cant be god i said it muss not be god.this is why i called x the unknown in an equation.
x is eternal.could be good or something else,but we dont now if it can cause a universe.because we dont now what x is or how
matters even react outside time-space (einsteins theroy).

your statement:(My opponent also says that there are many universes, and some of them are fine tuned and some are not.

I dint say they are many universes (what some of the most estimed physisit believ to betrue,string theory)i said they were many universes.
Not are but were.
x keept creating universes that collapsed until ore universe came,that didnt collaps we could be the billionst universe to come in existens but we came to stay.X didnt create more universe because x only creates universes when there isnt anything but x explaining why they arent more big bangs .

your statement :(He gave no evidence for the hypothesis of many universes.).Religion does not provide with evidence it asks faith.I belive in good but i wanna prof that it is possibel tath the universe came without a good.if you think I had succes than vote for me if you think my opponent has defently proven that good exist than vote for him.but i would like you would base you vote not on faith but in our arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by leandro.sanchez 3 years ago
leandro.sanchez
i see you are a fan of religious debattes.i would like to end this debatte today like kepp it going fast not to fast but not have to wait every time for days bevore an argument.i hope you see it the self and i would like to defie you to a debatte:does some one goes to heaven if he respects the ten commandments but is an atheist?text back if you are interested in kepping these debate not to short.and i am interested to se what you point o vue is to my debatte idea.
No votes have been placed for this debate.