The Instigator
PinValentine
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points
The Contender
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points

Does God love you unconditionally?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
PinValentine
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/17/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,125 times Debate No: 56766
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (118)
Votes (7)

 

PinValentine

Con

I will attempt to challenge Pro to a real debate on the subject of weather or not God, should he exist, loves you. I do not just say loves you, but add unconditionally to the question to narrow the arguments down. In my arguments I will provide more evidence than simply stating "God does not exist." or "There is no evidence for the existence of God." I will provide real evidence from the bible, (if that can be counted as real evidence.) and from philosophical papers, should I have access to them.

If Pro does not accept this debate, what his previous Con said will ring true. He or she is but a troll. I look forward to this debate.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

Why in the world would you think God can't love me unconditionally? At least you are making me think here.......I can guess at how you will argue this: using passages in the Bible like when God said he loved Jacob but hated Esau. God loves you unconditionally, why would you think He can't?
Debate Round No. 1
PinValentine

Con

I will begin my argument with Proverbs 6:16-19;

"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him; Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies, and a person who stirs up conflict in the community."

This is quick proof that God does not have unconditional love. In the comments, Pro made the argument that no matter what you do, good or bad, God loves you unconditionally. This first passage is proves that that is false. Now these are valid reasons for any person to hate another person, but God is a "perfect" god, and there for would love these people. He doesn't. A lot of people would make the argument that God hates the sins and loves the sinners. That is also false. In the above passage he directly states that he hates the false witness. That is a person he hates. It is also clear in the following passage;

Psalms 5:5 "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Iniquity being a fancy word for sin. He hates all those that work with sin. Those are people he hates.

According to popular Christian belief, we are all sinners due to the actions of Adam and Eve. This passage explains it.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good and sinneth not."

If we are all sinners, and God hates sinners, does he not hate all of us? His actions towards his people do not seam as though he loves all of us. In Genesis 18 and 19 he would have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and all the "righteous" people there in if Abraham had not begged to save those righteous people. Even after those righteous people were found, God still destroyed the cities even though he told Abraham that he would not do so. First he lied to Abraham, but that's a different debate. Secondly, He showed the people in those cities no mercy, no forgiveness, and no love. He did not love those people. Had it not been for Abraham, he would not have loved Lot and his family. God did not save Lot, Abraham did. Where was God's love then?

I have shown in this debate, through passages in the bible, that God does not have unconditional love. I used only Bible versus as proof as requested by Pro. In my next argument, I will continue to use only bible passages that explain that God does not love people for things that are out of their control, and for very normal human things. I look forward to Pro's argument.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

God still loves you. He sees in you two things: First, He sees the sinner and as you have said, he hates the workers of iniquity. Second, He sees what you could be, He sees that you can be born again of His Holy Spirit to be a new creation, a new you, a new child of God bought back from the punishment of sin by His own blood which He gave to pay for your sins because He loves you that much. God loves you unconditionally. He wants you to be His child, He wants to bring you to heaven for eternal life, He wants to freely give you all things forever. God does love you unconditionally or He would not give you any time before letting you go where your sin will take you if you will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

You are arguing here that you cannot be saved from the fire of hell. You are wrong. God loves you and He wants to save you from the fire of Hell. He loves you so much He died in your place even though you keep on insisting He cannot love anybody. He is the righteous Judge who must punish sin. He is the loving Judge who wants to show mercy. He is satisfied that He Himself paid for your sins with His own blood on the cross. He loves you so much that He paid the price for you, the price that you can never pay, even if you have to burn for eternity in hell. If you won't believe on Him, if you won't trust Him, He can't save you from the fire. If you insist He cannot love you, all He can do is be angry with you and you will be cast away into the fire of Hell. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Debate Round No. 2
PinValentine

Con

I see that Pro is using only three arguments. One; that God loves you. Two; that he died on the cross for you. And Three; That if you do not trust him then you will go to hell.

I am sorry but these are not arguments. They are opinions. He has given no proof, no Versus from the Bible (even though that was his rule for doing the debate), and no examples. He only gives "God loves you."

Allow me to explain why God does not love you again, but in a different way. Let us examine how God cannot love you just because of who you are regardless if you sin or not.

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, They shall surly be put to death, their blood is upon them."

Romans 1:32 "Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, They not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."

Leviticus 15:19 "When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and who ever touches her shall be unclean until the evening."

Leviticus 21:17 - 23 "Speak to Aaron, saying, None of your offspring throughout their generations who has a blemish may approach to offer the bread of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles. No man of the offspring of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the Lord's food offerings; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God."

And there is a lot more. So if you are gay, black, a woman who has a period, a little person, have a sickness, walk with a cane, or have even just a scar on your arm, You cannot go to heaven according to what God said in the bible. In fact he said in the last verse, that you shouldn't even try. You are not aloud to. God doesn't even want you to be yourself.

this is just more proof that God does not and cannot have unconditional love for any one.

Ill thank pro once again for accepting this debate, and I look forward to his final argument, or lack of one.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

God loves me because of who He is in spite of who I am. He loves me because He created me and He wants me to be with Him to enjoy forever in heaven. He loves me because of who He is. He is more than fair if He stops giving me time hoping that I will come to him seeking mercy from Him for what I am. He wants to show mercy to me, that is why He did not desroy me the first time I knew I had done womething wrong. He loves you, that's why He did not destroy you the first time He did something wrong. He wants you to be like Him, He wants to change you. He wants to make you a new creature. He took your death so that if you will believe on Him, He can be you life and His life is eternal life. This is what God wants for you, to bring you back from the death you deserve to the eternal life He wants to give you because He loves you. If He did not love you, He would not give you a chance before He destroys you.


You are trying to make His love dependent on your character. Your character, like mine, is corrupt. He loves you because of who He is, not because you could possibly deserve His love.........and I think you are making the argument that you cannot possible deserve His love. You are correct in this. You cannot possibly deserve His love . Nobody can deserve His love, you got that right. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.......For God so loved the world, that He gave Hiw only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. God GIVES His love, we cannot earn it.

God loves you unconditionally. He can only save you from punishment on one condition.........you must believe He loved you so much He died in your place to give you eternal life........you must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
He died in you place, He became sin for you so that you could be made the righteousness of God in Him.
He rose from the grave to be the justifier of all who believe on Him. This is the gospel, the good news of God, that He can give us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.


You can't expect God to let violations of His law go unpunished. He loves you even though you broke His law and deserve His punishement. He Himself took your punishment so that you could be spared from it. You can have eternal life in spite of the fact that you do not deserve God's love. God loves you and He wants you to be saved from the fire of hell. You can be saved. He loves you so much that He took your punishment knowing you would insist that He cannot love you. He rose from the grave and offers you forgiveness......He will forgive your unbelief, and He will save you and be your life, God's gift of eternal life, if you will only repent and believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST
Debate Round No. 3
118 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
By your rules, I used the bible. I didn't have to, it is what you requested. Gain a memory.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
if there is no God and no Jesus, you have nothing to teach me by referring to His teachings.......learn logic humbly
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
No I deny every thing you have ever said in the debate and the comments. There is not god, no Jesus, no dying for any ones sins. Jesus taught humility, learn from it.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I win, Jesus paid for my sins with His own blood and rose from the dead to be the justifier of all who believe on Him. I'm going to heaven with my sins forgiven, God gave me the victory in Jesus Christ. He won for me and you can't deny it, you can only deny that God loves you.

Sorry.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
Give it a rest already, you lost
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
oooops..........forgot I said I was done commenting here, slipped
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
if you are an enemy of God like an atheist is, God still loves you. You are burning in your pride passionately against God when God created you for His pleasure, not for the grief of watching and listening to His creature trying to defame Him in from of His other creatures. Your burning agaisnt God cries out for the fire of hell, you are asking for it, you want it as part of your argument agaisnt the goodness of God........and the fire of hell won't stop you from defying God and denying His love for you. You want to go your own way, and God will let you have it because He loves you, even if what you are asking for is not good for you God is going to let you have it if you don't stop asking for it.

Only God deserves all of the honor and glory for your existence. If you must have it all for yourself, you will have it in the Lake of Fire from your own free will for yourself and by yourself.........and it won't do you any good there. You can't deny God's right to rule over you. He will get from you the honor and glory He is due, even it only by allowing you to remain in the fire your passion against God burns for, as the evidence of God's judgement agaisnt those who abuse the freedom He gave them to curse him.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
It was extremely preachy
Posted by subjectname 2 years ago
subjectname
Con won this one hands down, gave numerous examples from KJV that demonstrate God's love to not be unconditional whereas Pro only provided the bare assertion that God loves you unconditionally. This is not an argument. Con was a little easy on Pro in my opinion because some cases evidenced by the Bible are just no-brainers. I treat my pets better than God has treated countless people, and love is largely demonstrated by how you treat people. Actions count more than simply saying the word "love." If I start torturing my children with a blowtorch because they disobeyed me, but keep saying "I love them unconditionally! I love them unconditionally!" ... would you believe I love them unconditionally when I'm purposely putting them through gut-wrenching torture? NO because that's not how you treat someone you love!
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
ArcTImes
I didn't read the debate. Is it another preachy debate?
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by funwiththoughts 2 years ago
funwiththoughts
PinValentineLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro relied on assertions, he made no arguments and provided no sources.
Vote Placed by neutral 2 years ago
neutral
PinValentineLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I think there is a definitional error here that is resolved by Pro - that God still loves us despite your character flaws. That pretty much defines unconditional love. Where con fails is with consequence: yes you will have consequences for disobedience. Do mothers and fathers stop loving their children when they do something? When they say, "I hate it when they cry?'" Of course not. The condition that Con fails to meet is that God stops loving you in the instant of your sin. Love is a little deeper than THAT IMHO.
Vote Placed by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO didn't actually make arguments, he made assertions. Arguments to CON. Also, PRO did not offer sources. CON offered biblical sources. Sources to CON.
Vote Placed by AdamKG 2 years ago
AdamKG
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed to make any real argument or list sources. Con obviously wins.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
PinValentineLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: pro tried good, but he mostly asked leading questions and used statements to attempt to prove his points.
Vote Placed by Rayze 2 years ago
Rayze
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con used Biblical evidence to sufficiently prove that the Christian god, should he exist, can not love humanity unconditionally. Pro's feeble counter arguments consisted of opinions that god loves you rather than biblical evidence or historical evidence such as the protestant reformation. Although historically, the calvinists and the other Protestant groups during the great awakenings believed that god was a wrathful god than a benevolent god.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro destroyed any chance of winning with lines like: "God loves you unconditionally. He can only save you from punishment on one condition". which destroyed the notion of Unconditional Love, by asserting a Condition. Thus giving the debate to Con. Conduct point to Con for staying on and putting up with the continual Preaching/Proselytizing of Pro, who proselytized instead of arguing.