The Instigator
joosmit116
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Cmckee
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Does God's grace apply for people in Hell?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,789 times Debate No: 30124
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (25)
Votes (0)

 

joosmit116

Pro

I am somewhat on the fence with this one. What I am trying to ask is this. If God's grace is real and open to everyone, does that include people who God has condemned to Hell or is that the end of the road? I mean the Bible does say that God's grace is for everyone and he never put a deadline on it. Plus all it says is that you need to believe in God and follow his word in order to get into Heaven. So if a person believes in God, is it then possible for them to "move" to Heaven? But even still then, wouldn't everyone believe just by default? I mean they would have seen God and so then really have no choice but to believe. Right?
Cmckee

Con

If Gods grace applied to everyone then there would be no need for Hell. People could live as sinful a life as they wanted but know that they would still get into Heaven.
Hell exists for a reason,it is there to hold those who God has deemed a hopeless case and given up on.
Debate Round No. 1
joosmit116

Pro

Ok. I don't disagree. However, does the Bible say that God's grace and love is eternal and without ceasing? If that is true then wouldn't that have to mean that God might exstend his hand of grace to those dwelling in Hell? He only gave us one requirment and that is to love and believe in Him. He never gave us a deadline. Or is it possible that God will give all people another chance to believe in Him during the rapture. He said all people will come back to be judged. What if he doesn't truely judge us until then?
Cmckee

Con

I see your point but I need you to clarify something-define gods love and could you give a passage from the bible that proves your point.
Think about what this is saying. You stated that Gods grace applies to those in Hell but as I have already stated that would defeat the point of Hell
Debate Round No. 2
joosmit116

Pro

Well done. You have stumped me. I cannot not find any verses. Now I am not trying to be rude or anything but just for the sake of cross referencing with the Bible, can you find any verses to support your claim?
Cmckee

Con

You have admitted that I have stumped you so I see no reason to post a verse(but I will)
"No one can come to the Father except through me" if you don't follow Jesus then you can't go to Heaven then God won't give grace.
Debate Round No. 3
joosmit116

Pro

Thank you for continuing the argument. But is it not possible for The Father to say that you have one last chance? That even where you are right now, that you can still "come through him"?
Cmckee

Con

Cmckee forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
joosmit116

Pro

I mean, if God IS love, if He IS grace, and if He IS enternal, does that not mean that he has loving grace that lasts forever? Does that not mean that if someone who sincerely worshiping God in Hell that they could come back even then?
Cmckee

Con

Cmckee forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
giraffelover, how does one fictional character disobeying another fictional character mean humans have birth defects?

Have you thought about checking into a psych ward for a possible delusion?

Maybe since you want to talk like an idiot you should embrace True Scripture :)

True Scripture, will help you see more relevance to the 21st Century, Not that watered down goat herder tripe from back in the day :)

CURES 1:1--Free Thought is Not a curse, it's the cure :)

Inept 10:10--Religion is Thought Abortion :)

Thoughts 7:32--"Thinking", if everyone did it, who would be religious? :)

STUDS 10:22--Dont just teach your children to read, teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything--George Carlin :)

Soldiers 7:42--The way to deal with superstition is NOT to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous--H.L Mencken :)

Religitards 5:55--If ignorance was body odor, religious beliefs would make you stink like you slept in a dumpster of fish and vomit :)

DUH 9:23--You dont need religion to have morals. If you dont know right from wrong, you lack empathy, Not religion :)

Wizards 7:2--Even though the idea that there is a magic man who can solve all your problems for you is a nice thought, once you see behind the curtain, you realize you have to solve all your problems yourself :)

Mistakes 26:10--Never confuse education with intelligence :)

Disgusting 19:19--judges 19 "A Levite and His Concubine" :)
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
Well, if Adam hadn't disobeyed God, we wouldn't have ANY birth effects.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
of course the Fall, and adam, what about the reindeer?

Or is the reindeer from another story of a being who keeps track of who is naughty or nice?

There's a lot of fairy tales kids, its hard to keep up :)
Posted by giraffelover 4 years ago
giraffelover
I think you're missing one little detail about the birth defects, Devient Genie... The Fall, when Adam ate the forbidden fruit. That was when we were doomed to birth defects, because we rejected God.
Posted by joosmit116 4 years ago
joosmit116
Perhaps I am. And perhaps you are dilutional for not believing what I do.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
he Christian faith also says that God has infinite knowlegde. He know everything that was and that is to come. So if God knows everything and we don't, then it makes sense for Christ followers to talk to him and ask for his help."

Birth defects, volcanoes, earthquakes are obviously what an all knowing would create.

Only an idiot would make a planet free of volcanoes, earthquakes and birth defects.

Wihtout birth defects how do we get siamese twins, we need a dumb designer to make birth defects.

Plus there are over 250,000, thats a quarter million, different species of beetles on earth. Any intelligent designer knows that 250k is the bare minimum number of species of beetles, any less like only 100k different species would be boring.

Beetle loving birth defect makers do Not excite me, maybe youre just a sucker or delusional for worshiping a birth defect and beetle extrodinaire :)
Posted by joosmit116 4 years ago
joosmit116
Sorry about the spelling. Forgot to proof read.
Posted by joosmit116 4 years ago
joosmit116
Ok. I think I see what you are trying to say here and you make a valid point. When we pray to God to help us figure out something, one could interpret that to be that Christians do not think for themselves. However, you need to understand the difference between dependency and stupidity. The Christian faith says that God gives all of mankind free will. Meaning that he will let them do whatever they want. However, he wants all of us to have the best life possible and in order to do that, he gave us gidelines that will give us the best life on Earth. Keep that tucked away in the back of your mind.

The Christian faith also says that God has infinite knowlegde. He know everything that was and that is to come. So if God knows everything and we don't, then it makes sense for Christ followers to talk to him and ask for his help.

Now if we put two and two together we will see that when you pray, you are asking for your mentors's advice. At the same time, we don't HAVE to follow His advice. It is wise to but never was it a requirment. Its similar to when you talk to a good friend of yours and you are asking them whether or not you should date this girl. Well your friend has dated this Girl before and he says no. Well you do it anyway. Three weeks later, you find out that she is pregnant with some guy that she met at the bar. See your friend knew what he was talking about and he gave you good advice. You still had to weigh the pros and cons and make a choise for youself. Your friend didn't make the choise for you. He simply told you the wisest path
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
So what youre really saying giraffe is that you need god to tell you what to do, you cant figure it out on your own because youre just a measley human?

Speak for yourself. Charities, hospitals, homele, shelters and good will of all kinds develops with conciousness.

Thanks for the kick start religion, my ancestors were just overgrown apes that could talk, the big kids got this now.

Go night night with your holy binky, we dont need your promise of a scooby snack at death from a homophobic sexist with a perpensity to throw a temper tantrum flood :)

Now, lets get back to this Higgs Boson and let kissing girls get married :)

What a lucky bunch the future is when all the whiny and cry baby religious kids are as numerous as santa believers over the age of 18 :)
Posted by joosmit116 4 years ago
joosmit116
Devient Genie, my last intention is to be rude. Having said that, it is quite obvious that you are stubborn and closed minded. That is not always a bad thing but when you start saying things like, "No matter what," YOU have become the fool. Why are you a fool? A fool can learn nothing because his glass is full and he is unwilling to pour something out to accept something better. Not only that, but your knowledge of the Christian faith is ENTIRELY based on the stereotypes outsiders have put on Christians. You have no understanding of who they are which again, is not a bad thing. It is impossible to know and understand ever single religion. But you assuming that everything you have heard about Christians is true without being willing to hear the possibility that you might be wrong. AND YOU HAVE TO RELIZE YOU MIGHT BE WRONG! Never will you find a human who is 100% right 100% of the time.
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