The Instigator
Sophisto
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
condeelmaster
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Does Jesus need a Magneto?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 477 times Debate No: 85235
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

Sophisto

Pro

Martin Luther King, Jr. had Malcolm X.
Professor X has Magneto.
Both examples have peaceful vs. aggressive campaigns for tolerance.

Surely the Prince of PEACE could benefit from a complementary rival willing to be vilified. Also, the friendly rivalry aspect would be critically crucial to the relationship. An outright nemesis is out of the question and boring.

The rival would need to be Christian so trust is maintained. An outsider would simply be a skeptic. The renegade Christian would have a mind of his own, thinking outside the Bible but still loyal to Jesus, somewhat. Open to dialogue about the failures of corrupt amateurs that are currently running the circus of Jesus Freaks. Harsh on mediocre Christians who complain about boring sermons but leave it at that, lacking initiative to try anything else. Desperation being an admirable trait for change.

Why even plead for someone like this? It's preemptive within the prophetic mindset of Rapture doctrine. If the Left Behind series is to be humored, then it would be tactical and brilliantly strategic to steal the charisma and rhetoric from the ultimate bad guy. Only then would the intimidation of Christians into listening to someone other than Jesus for the direction of the Church...only that would be feasible with the power of one who has the consent of the secular public to perform a hostile takeover of the Church.

Con Requirements:
Prove Jesus does not need a friendly rival and that one would be unnecessary, irrelevant and/or implausible. Atheists need not apply unless you're willing to humor the premise.
Parameters:
Scripture- sure.
Pop Culture- why not? I opened the door.
Offensive- depends on the intent.
condeelmaster

Con

I'm an agnostic but I will view this in a theological way.

I believe that a "Magneto for Jesus" would be damaging to the religion itself. The difference between this supposed rivalry and the ones that you give as examples ( magneto-Xavier, Martin Luther King-Malcolm X , etc.) is that Christianity is unlike the others an ideology.

An ideology needs of a single "celebrity" or "principal voice". If this friendly rival appears It would mean the start of another ideology, another way of thinking, different from Christianity. An example of this is one of your examples: MLK and Malcolm X. They both fought against racism but they represented different ideologies. Malcolm X was pro violence and pro getting rights with force. MLK was pro dialogue and pro pacific fight. As you see they fight for the same but they have different thoughts. The same would happen here. A new philosophy would began.

The problem is that if this happens, Christians won't be benefited. Instead some Christians would be fond of this new way and will abandon Christianity.
Debate Round No. 1
Sophisto

Pro

I thank condeelmaster for accepting the challenge.

Yes, damage to Christianity would be done, but that is not saying much considering the self-harm it has accomplished already. Surgery with anesthesia is ideal but the message will not be as impacting. I want the Christians to be fully aware of the operation as it is explained to them that it is better this way. Otherwise, their stubborn farsighted faith shall lead to their own obsolescence and social death.

There are several examples of ideologies that are made complete through a set of contradicting choices. Public education versus private education, Christians being private. Exclusive and expensive, not everybody would benefit from a private education. Public education provides a superior environment for social skill improvement. Christianity is a snobby prep school for undertrained believers who naively think their outdated knowledge is sufficient for a career in philanthropy.

What you see as a disadvantage for the rival intending to keep it inside the Church but having it form a life of its own would be prevented by the exposure of the rival as an antichrist. Given the rise of the rival and his influence within the Church and society, any occurrence that might result in a new religion would be nullified by the reality that the rival would be stuck within the confines of the Church's philosophical parameters, deliberately and passively. The rival would not be attempting to usurp or dethrone Jesus, but rather work up the ranks on the fast track by bypassing religious promotions. This would be done with approval of the public and neutrality of governments.

As for Christians opting for the more appealing path, that speaks more to the fading effectiveness and attractiveness of the religion. Despite that, it does compensate by exposing the rival as an antichrist, vindicating Christianity anyway. Win-win.

Malcolm X said, "I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil."
This is the epitome of the rival's intent. Even if he's wrong, at least he admits the possibility. Avoiding superfluous humility, the rival would be blunt, but transparent.
condeelmaster

Con

I agree with what you said here:

" Given the rise of the rival and his influence within the Church and society, any occurrence that might result in a new religion would be nullified by the reality that the rival would be stuck within the confines of the Church's philosophical parameters, deliberately and passively. The rival would not be attempting to usurp or dethrone Jesus, but rather work up the ranks on the fast track by bypassing religious promotions. This would be done with approval of the public and neutrality of governments."

The problem is that this "rival" isn't a rival at all. I feel that this "rival" is more of a secondary personality. A rival, despite it was a friendly one or not, is a competitor, someone who " is in a position to dispute another's preeminence or superiority". The person who you are talking about doesn't do that. What you want is a "partner for Jesus". A rival can't be confined within the dogmas of Christianity, but a peer could.

As well as that, I think that an entity with the same power of Jesus will produce a contradiction in Christian philosophy. Jesus is supposed to be unique, the only son of God, one of the constituents of the Holy Trinity: Sun, Father and Spirit. The appearance of a person with the same capacities as Jesus will mean that Jesus isn't unique, and the Holy Trinity would have to be the Holy Quaternary (?).
Debate Round No. 2
Sophisto

Pro

Obviously, the rival would be tasked with outmaneuvering the perceptions and expectations of the Christians and secularists alike. To maintain his own identity and focus, he would cater to the preconceptions of the antichrist and manipulate certain attributes to make it his own and upset the paradigm of the elite.

Conveniently, lacking the power to do miracles, the rival would have to rely on mimicking Jesus' unsurpassed wisdom and insight. He would have to turn the New Testament upside down. Striking the balance between renegade ally and substitute leader, superseding the pope's popularity and legitimacy.

That would resolve the discrepancy between replacing Jesus, disproving Jesus and whatever else can be used to attack Jesus' authority. The willingness to look obviously wrong would be an ironic resource of underdog biting strength, barking like crazy without the intent to go rabid.
condeelmaster

Con

I see your point but I still think that what you want isn't a rival but a friend. What you are looking for is a new prophet who gives fresh air to Christianity. There can't exist a rivalry as the ones you mentioned if one of the competitors is in disadvantage. If this "rival" isn't a Jesus equal peer it can't fulfil his role as a rival at all.

To give some conclusion to this debate I will say that a rival as planted at the beginning can't do anything but to damage Christianity. A rival, although it may be friendly, will open up a new way of thinking, diverging of the Christianity. Christianity needs a personality which moves the ground of the church and create some polemic but not a rival of Jesus. Christianity needs fresh air, given by a new way of interpreting Jesus, maybe someone like the pope Francis could do so. A rival will only generate a greater division in the church, and perhaps the full breaking of it.
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 1 year ago
Stonehe4rt
Well that's your opinion that they aren't appealing however think about it this way. There is a game of the mind being played here between Satan and God, God says we can overcome sin through him and join him and paradise, Satan says we will fall and suffer and reject God. We are the points and pieces of this game. God tries to guide us on a path of good gaining his point. Satan tries to lead us down a miserable path leading to his point. However why would God do this? Simple he loves each and every one of us so he even came down as his own piece and lived a perfect life but suffered for all of us. This was a somewhat badass move on God's part as Satan didn't even expect it giving us the ability to switch from Satans side to God at any time. When Satan came face to face with Jesus he wasnt even 100% sure till he tested Jesus and failed. The best thing about this is that not even Satan is God's enemy. Because Satan is still our brother, fallen as he may be. That is why we must join God's side to save Satan as well. If anything Satan is our magneto. We were brothers in the past then he betrayed and took a lot of mutants then later I hope he will come around once again back to God. So yes, live your life with excitement and spread the seed of God where you can, it may not take root but people will hear it. Best way to spread it is with simple Love. And the absence of God is the best magneto for God you will get. Because there is nothing worse than the lack of love. Nothing worse than the lack of God.
Posted by Sophisto 1 year ago
Sophisto
All your candidates are not appealing. Also, their charisma is incompatible with the style of Magneto.
Posted by Sophisto 1 year ago
Sophisto
All your candidates are not appealing. Also, their charisma is incompatible with the style of Magneto.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
We have that. It's call the Westborough Baptist Church.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 1 year ago
Stonehe4rt
Yeah the Pope right now is one. Such as wanting to rewrite the bible so no one is offended. Or the people who misrepresent God are his 'magneto' such as serial killers who claim it is in God's name. Think about it this way. We all have an opposite, even God. If God is everything then his opposite is nothing. Not just nothing but literal nothingness. I may sound like a broken record but yet again that leads to Sin (Disfunction) which leads to nothing being the polar opposite of God.
Posted by Berend 1 year ago
Berend
The Popes have bee his Magneto.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 1 year ago
Stonehe4rt
Well then again, the living specimen right now would be in a sense... Us! Sin isnt a being I think but an action so yet again it is a chasing game where God wants us to come to him so he can give us the best life possible but we run away because we want conflict. Kinda like right now, you want an enemy to God, but conflict isnt what God wants. Ultimately making a conflict that God wants to resolve.
Posted by Sophisto 1 year ago
Sophisto
Very well, however that does nothing for here and now. I want a living specimen.
Posted by yomama12 1 year ago
yomama12
Jesus's Magneto were the popes that allowed the Crusades to happen.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 1 year ago
Stonehe4rt
But anyway back to what I had said. If God came in a fought the war of Sin for us then that would be him admitting defeat. You see the 'game' is that Sin wants to win us over and God wants to win us over. Meaning if God just came down and abbolished sin not only would he be saying he has no faith in us but he would be taking away our free will. We must choose God for God to enter our ives.
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