The Instigator
Doneeh
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Phoenix.Wright
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points

Does Rap Culture Negatively Affect America's Youth?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Phoenix.Wright
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/4/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 14,841 times Debate No: 21705
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (5)

 

Doneeh

Con

By accepting, you take the side of Rap being a negative influence. Irregular language usage is perfectly fine (for example, curses, slang, etc.), provided they are reasonable and influence the argument. First round can be considered your acceptance, provided it's fine with you. Let's keep this fun and productive.

The fact of the matter is that rap music does not negatively affect America's youth. In my years of listening to different genres of music, there hasn't been a single one that's interested me as much as rap. The poetry and soul behind the music is something that anyone can enjoy provided they have the patience to listen to it, but it seems that in today's society, rap isn't looked well upon, if not usually down upon. This itself relies on bad portrayals and misconceptions through different mediums in the mainstream media, whereas lesser known media praises it. Due to controversial rapping and lyrics, the art is vilified by a majority and considered the evil of music, to a given point that is.

While many can say with an eased heart that rappers pioneer a genre of music that is detrimental to the younger generation, many others also tend not to give it a proper chance and examine the roots of the problem firsthand. It's assumed that speaking about crime and other illicit activities to another person will give them the idea that such things are to be condoned. This comes into play when discussing rap culture. Certain genres of rap emphasize crime to the point that one should accept it as a daily part of life, just as the rapper has. However, as stated earlier, this is with different genres, and with different genres come different messages that are meant to reach out to different groups.

It is smart to assume that an MC will most definitely assume that his music is being pushed to his own group, whether age or background-wise. Would a 30-something year old rapper from the New York Time's side suspect at first that his music was being directed at a younger age group then the one he's most familiar with, that one being his own? There has yet to have been a rapper that felt the need to corrupt the views of young teens and adults by glorifying crime and the horrors of street life, and hopefully there won't ever be one. Nonetheless, the younger age groups will seek out the spoken wisdom of their older pseudo-mentors, with the rapper having little to no influence on how they reach and learn from them. On the rapper's part, they wouldn't condone their own actions that they speak of (despite how they may try to front), but try to speak to the youth through rhythm and poetry that they should learn from the actions of the older generation and avoid the problems they faced through their lives.

Rap, when getting to the bare and gnarly roots of the subject, is trying to employ a positive message to youth, even if neither party realizes it. In most cases, it is the younger generation that usually completely misses the intended admonition. Many MC's have tried to alert and warn young adults to the dangers of their lives and how crime only made things worse off for them. While some rappers will say that they'd be nowhere without the crimes they've committed, a majority will say that the danger outweighed the gain. They will also mention that in their own youth, they were ignorant and acted so because they believed they never had a chance in the world themselves. This is why it's so subtly stressed by certain rappers that following in their footsteps is not the right choice, and a major reason that they continue to rap is because they want to do right by telling others follow their own paths. It would be safe to assume that rap isn't a negative influence, but assumed so because of how it connects to listeners, who mostly happen to be youth.
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

Clarifications

We are talking about rap on youth within the past decade or two (recently).

we must first define what a youth is in America:

“the time of life when one is young;especially:the period between childhood and maturity”

http://mw2.merriam-webster.com...

In America, maturity or adulthood is at age 18 so we say a youth is under this age and above 10 years old at least. So the youth should be between 10-18 years old (you can go lower than 10 years old if you want).


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Introduction

Rap culture has for the past 40 years as a whole put negative influences and ideas on the youth. Stereotypes such drugs, stealing and prostitution are seen as cool and desirable by the many youth who listen to this music and become immersed in this culture. These stereotypes continue to be promoted today in the music industry and continue to lead many youth astray. It is amazing that being called a pimp is seen as a compliment these days and this only shows the shift in morality over the past few decades. All I have to show is that rap music has a negative influence whereas you must show it has no negative influence.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Contention #1 Higher youth consumption of alcohol and drugs due to the influence of rap music and Glorification of violence

Many rap songs and music videos promote intoxicants, drugs and violence and there are studies which prove this. The common template you will see in any rap song or music video is: drugs, violence, money, cars and women. If you take a look at some of the lyrics in a popular rap song, My Drink N my 2 step by Cassidy which I argue is representative of rap music because of its popularity.A section of the song talks both about alcohol,drugs,violence [1] and is a hit rap song [2] so it would be natural to assume it is representative. A study was also undertaken which shows that rap music glorifies drug use:

“Of the 38 most popular songs between 1979 and 1984, only four contained drug references. But by the late 1980s it had increased to 19 percent and after 1993 nearly70 percent of rap songs mentioned drug use.” (bold emphasis mine) [3].

This use of alcohol and drugs has had a negative impact on youth especially African Americans who are usually the audience. Youth who are constantly receiving the same messages of alcohol and drugs from their poor role models will eventually fall into these activities, Studies have shown that this is indeed true.

“A recent study concludes that popular songs like Pass the Courvoisier by rap artist Busta Rhymes are strongly linked to alcohol addiction, drug use, and violence among young people. The report comes from the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluations Prevention Research Center in Berkley, California.”[4]


Contention #2 Sexual objectification of young girls/women, women become useless outside of sex

It is commonly seen all throughout rap music that women are severely degraded. In the songs all they are worth is for sex, they become mere objects for pleasure. Instead of showing you sections from songs which would be redundant since it is commonly known most rap songs degrade women such as Gold digger and Colt 45, I will show some statistics from a comprehensive report. The American journal of Public health conducted a detailed study which covers youth women.

“The study enrolled 522 single African American females. Of those enrolled, 92.2% completed 12-month follow-up assessments...Over the 12-month follow-up, 37.6% acquired a new sexually transmitted disease, 4.8% hit a teacher, 12.1% reported being arrested, 14.8% had sexual intercourse with someone other than their steady partner, 44.2% reported using drugs, and 44.4% consumed alcohol.” [5]

“Although not specifically referring to rap music videos, Poussaint11 noted that the glorification of drugs, violence, and sex in films is particularly dangerous to young African Americans who are not exposed to many positive role models in the media.” [5]


Contention #3 Constant use of poor and vulgar language

In most rap music, there is a constant use of vulgar and unintelligent language which is promoted as the 'cool' thing to do. I would understand if the language was used to express oneself but that isn't even the case. They use vulgar language without any reason most times, as if it is normal. This has a negative influence on youth since they don't understand that poor language is not useful for expressing oneself, especially when they grow up when good and respectful language is a must.


Sources

http://www.azlyrics.com... [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org... [2]

http://in.reuters.com... [3]

http://www.npr.org... [4]

http://ajph.aphapublications.org... [5]

Debate Round No. 1
Doneeh

Con

Rebuttal To:Contention #1

It is a common misconception that rap culture/music in general promotes any sort of glorification towards illicit activities. Most Rappers are not actively promoting anything relating to alcohol, drugs, sex, or violence, and are instead mentioning the environment around them. One must consider why such things have surfaced in the past two decades, and why rappers feel the need to speak out about them. From the 80's to late 90's, the United States Crack Epidemic was effectively taking place in minority neighborhoods and destroying the foundations of anti-drug sentiments.

"During the time period studied, the set of cities with the greatest crack problem includes Newark, Philadelphia, New York, Oakland, Boston, San Francisco, and Seattle. Other cities that rank high include New Orleans, Baltimore, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles. Among states, Maryland and New York top the list."[1]

A quick observation of the places listed are indeed the areas that produce the most rappers, where the drug hit heaviest. The environment rappers experienced in their lives was negligent and the harshness carried onto them, giving them a pseudo-brainwashing that would make the young and aspiring artists to rap about what they're most familiar with: A world that involved heavy substance use. These rappers do not try to promote violence or illicit substances, but are referring back to their own lives and how it was present among them. The same youth that listens to this will most likely be in the same environment themselves, also not knowing anything other than what's presented to them.

For clarification, the so-called hit rap song "My Drink N' My 2 Step" is not a proper example of rap music, due to it pertaining to a specific genre of rap. Once again, the "common template" is improper as well, due to it not carrying over into all genres of rap, or most of them for that matter. The song by Cassidy does not accurately represent rap well, and popularity does not simply mean so.

Many rappers will attempt to reach out to the youth through lyrics, and I use Nas an example with his song "I Can".[2]

"If the truth is told, the youth can grow
Then learn to survive until they gain control
Nobody says you have to be gangstas, hoes
Read more learn more, change the globe"

Nas has been an influential rapper for well over a decade, and is a much better representation of rap music. He himself is proof that rap has changed him for the better and allowed him to leave his life of crime behind.

Rebuttal To:Contention #2

Another misconception regarding women and rap is that rappers objectify them as sexual objects or simply tools of pleasure. While many rappers have spoken about women as a whole, and some to the point of glorifying them, Tupac Shakur, easily one of the most well known rappers in existence contradicts this claim heavily in his hit song "Keep Ya Head Up".[3] It's quite obvious that Mr. Shakur, a pioneer and legend, didn't feel that way about women.

"Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nuttin don't believe him
And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him
Cause sista you don't need him"

Nicki Minaj, a female rapper with exemplary skill, promotes the power of women in her lyrics, as well as outside of the studio. Despite being objectified as a sex object by her listeners at times, she proves to come out on top as a female artist and promote a pro-women stance. She is, without a doubt, proof that degradation is not as common as one would assume in modern rap.

Rebuttal To:Contention #3

Rappers have used vulgarity in their lyrics for many years, and it relies on, as was drug references when stated above, a side-effect of their environment. It seems as though there's bias in that argument and a lack of understanding of lyrical meaning. "Vulgar and unintelligent language" is an ignorant phrase than doesn't relay proper credit to the rapper and generalizes a group by making them seem as though they are all incapable of proper use of the English language. In reality, however, these artists meld and combine different aspects of language. The amount of thought and creativity that gets put into double-meanings and tricky word usage is genius in it's own right.

Wale featured J. Cole in the song "Beautiful Bliss." His language promotes thought and aspirations with his lyrics.[4]

"Forever I aint run yet
And never will
Nas told me life’s a b!tch
Pac said, 'Fu#k the world' and I ain't come yet.”

Curse words don't imply vulgarity, and in this case, quite the opposite. Missing the true message behind the words is a major flaw when observing lyrics, and most youth that listen to rap understand such lyrics. It goes without saying that this sublanguage is in no way vulgar, but misunderstood.

Sources-
1. http://www.chicagobooth.edu...
2. http://rapgenius.com...
3. http://rapgenius.com...
4. http://rapgenius.com...
Phoenix.Wright

Pro

Rebuttals



Rebuttal #1

Rappers are simply expressing the environment they grew up in and aren't purposely promoting drug use, alcohol etc


My opponent used this argument both in his opening statements and in his previous response. In his opening argument he said:


Would a 30-something year old rapper from the New York Time's side suspect at first that his music was being directed at a younger age group then the one he's most familiar with, that one being his own?


and in his last response he said:


“These rappers do not try to promote violence or illicit substances, but are referring back to their own lives and how it was present among them.”


While I would argue that these rappers are intentionally promoting drugs, violence etc, the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter whether the rappers are intentionally or unintentionally trying to promote drugs, alcohol, and violence. The fact remains the same, they are promoting these activities to the youth! I have given evidence that it in fact does. You stated your self both in your opening and last response


“ The same youth that listens to this will most likely be in the same environment themselves, also not knowing anything other than what's presented to them.”


You said that the youth that are in the same environment (drugs, violence filled etc) as the rappers will know only what is shown to them through these rappers which are alcohol, drugs and violence. Of course this will negatively influence the youth if that's whats only presented to them on T.V programs and further reciprocated by the youth in their age group!


Since you have mentioned Tupac the legend, he himself was involved in a number of legal issues including one which called to open violence. He also shot a couple of policemen[1].

Rebuttal #2

Rapper “X” made positive comments about women. Nicki Minaj against objectification etc

My opponent names a rapper which I agree was and is popular (Tupac), however it isn't fair nor truthful to name positive rap songs about women which are in the minority. I could list 10 or 20 rap songs which speak ill of women but what would that accomplish? You have to show that the majority of recent rap songs speak positively about women which is not true. I don't disagree there are good rap songs about women but these are in the minority. I have listed a comprehensive study by a reputable organization that shows that the various effects of rap culture on women. You haven't shown the general case of rap songs which is the objectification of women. Also, Tupac Shakur himself was charged with sexual assault and encouraged his own friends to rape the women which works against him [2][3].


My opponent then says Nicki Minaj is a positive role model for women which is false. Of course she has made positive comments about women but so can anyone. She is as you have stated yourself:


“Despite being objectified as a sex object by her listeners at times, she proves to come out on top as a female artist and promote a pro-women stance” (bold emphasis mine)”


She has undergone a number of surgeries such as breast enlargements and botox which show that she needs to emphasize her sexuality. If her sexuality wasn't important and her music was, why would she go to these great lengths to sexualize her self more? Indeed when one looks at Nicki Minaj starting out and now, one can see a major difference. If one looks at her music video Click Clack and compares it to more recent songs like Super bass, there is more of an emphasis on her body in the music video then on the previous one.



Rebuttal #3

My opponent's argument about the environment has been addressed earlier and has such is useless. There isn't any deep meaning to the many songs which constantly use curse words as if nothing. You stated earlier yourself in your opening arguments: “Rappers have used vulgarity in their lyrics for many years” so if you were even arguing the language was good or ok, you merely contradict yourself.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Conclusions

My opponent's arguments arguments and rebuttals are either fallacious or appeal to a small percentage or minority of the entire case. Example of these same arguments are for example, we should legalize abortion because of rape victims. These arguments are based on a small percentage and negates the general case. Generally, people abort because they are careless about sex. Therefore, as a result of this my arguments stand and my opponent's have been refuted.


Sources

http://www.nytimes.com... [1]

http://jj_productions.tripod.com... [2]

http://en.wikipedia.org... [3]

Debate Round No. 2
Doneeh

Con


#1


My opponent seems to misunderstand that the first round is not a series of arguments, but an introduction of arguments to come. An easy misunderstanding with how ambiguous it is.


To start, the youth is in fact in the same environment that most rappers have come from, but rappers aren’t the main influence in their lives. Blaming such things on rap is a display of ignorance towards the lives of these people, who live with others like them that they take and learn from. Community arises among people and they find themselves embracing their environment in opposed to resisting it. Rap is minor to this, and at best, a background factor. Television and its programs have nothing to do with the argument at hand, which is discussing the media of rap music and its effects.


I’d also like to add that the last paragraph in that argument lacks sufficient evidence and is more so ad-hom towards Tupac Shakur. There seemed to be aggravation from the side of the off-duty­ police officers (who might I add weren’t even in their proper county) towards Mr. Shakur and his group. Accounts of the event even went so far as to say that the policemen were drunk with their wives, celebrating an event of their own. Even in your source, it was stated that Mark Whitwell, one of the officers, pulled out a weapon. In my source[1], the Atlanta Police Captain Herb Carson himself gave this statement:


“One of the officers pointed a gun toward the group. They felt some kind of threat."


What exactly would give them the idea that Mr. Shakur and his small collective of friends would threaten their lives to the point that the officers needed to draw pistols that, on certain accounts, were actually stolen from evidence collection? Mopreme Shakur, Tupac’s step-brother, gives an account of how exactly the event went down.[2] This eye witness specifically states in his interview that the officers instigated the violence against the group.


#2


My opponent seems to dismiss any factor presented to the table, in this case it being pro-women rap songs. In your provided link, Tupac in no way influenced his companions into sexual harassment, that of which was of their own accord. The ambiguity of that situation left a wide spectrum of possibilities, but it also never stated that the woman was raped either.


Onto the topic of Nicki Minaj, to clarify a few points. I did in fact state that she was objectified as a sex object, but not a single woman as young as her isn’t in the music industry. With how free people are to have opinions on any other given person, it would be assumed that some of her fans would do so. Surgery does not necessarily imply she’s trying to sexualize herself more, but quite possibly empower herself. It wouldn’t exactly be hard to believe or understand if a woman wants surgery in order to make herself feel more empowered as a woman. Nicki Minaj could simply find making herself more attractive in her own eyes a way of achieving self-confidence that is hard to attain for a female rapper in a nearly all male industry.


Also, if Ms. Minaj isn’t quite positive enough, surely a friend of hers, M.I.A., would come along better. Her recent song, “Bad Girls”[3] is a message to other women across the world. She attempts to refute the power held over women and motivate positive growth within them, who in turn would most likely relay the message.


#3


My opponent still fails to realize that rap language can, and does in most cases, have a deeper sense of meaning. Rappers have in fact use vulgar words for many years, and even more to come, but only a sheltered mind would assume that a curse word can’t hold more meaning other than being an insult or negative phrase. Simply because a sublanguage isn’t easy to decipher does not mean it doesn’t hold value in the words that are used with it, it only means that one has to look deeper to find out the meaning. The fact remains: Because vulgarity is present does not rule out any meaning or positive message. Profanity in rap is usually a reflection of the rapper, who most likely grew up in an area where such language wasn’t viewed with as much stigma and disgrace.


Conclusion


It goes without saying that when addressing a topic such as rap, even the minor factors count to form a whole and concise view. Doing so lacks any form of equality towards factors of the topics that rely on different areas. A minute percent should not simply be ignored, but used properly.


The arguments and general knowledge of the subject presented by my opponent’s arguments also seem to be biased. There appears to be a lack of focus towards a non-general view (one that pulls from different subgenres etc.) that doesn’t generalize all rappers and the music itself. In which case, I find my arguments to stand in a perfectly reasonable light and are not refuted quite yet.


Sources


1. http://findarticles.com...


2.


3.


Phoenix.Wright

Pro

In your first post, you gave defences and arguments in favour of your position so it would be somewhat harmful for my case if I merely ignored them and regarded them as irrelevant. The same arguments you proposed in the beginning were used in your R2 response so my previous rebuttals address both.


Rebuttals


Rebuttal #1


Concession from my opponent

My opponent says now that although the rappers are an influence, they aren't a major influence. He says:


“To start, the youth is in fact in the same environment that most rappers have come from, but rappers aren’t the main influence in their lives.”

“Rap is minor to this, and at best, a background factor.”


My opponent is proposing that rap culture is not as huge influence but a minor one with regards to the rebuttal I argued in R2. This is a concession, my opponent is suppose to be arguing that they are not a negative influence on performing alcohol, drugs etc whatsoever. So by saying they are even a minor influence, he agrees that there is a negative influence. This answers the entire question of the debate, which is yes.


Not a minor influence

My opponent has made claims but hasn't given any evidence in support. I have given evidence to show that it is in fact not a minor influence but at least a medium to major influence. There was also another study undertaken in Berkley California.

“Yes, say recent American studies, and in more ways than one. A team of researchers from Berkeley, California, investigated more than a thousand American college students between 15 and 26 years of age. Students who often listen to rap music, use more alcohol, more marijuana and more party drugs such as XTC.”[1]

There are various evidences from very authentic sources that show the negative impact of music on youth. [2][3][4]

These articles and reports are from places such as Prevention Research Center Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation , and American Public Health Association. The evidence favours me, music promotes drugs and alcohol to youth which is a negative influence.

Regarding Tupac, your video didn't work.I don't want to dwell to deep into this issue while you can say he was provoked etc, the fact remains that there was tension and aggression between the police and Tupac's crew. At least both of the parties had some roles in escalating the violence.


Rebuttal #2

Nicki Minaj, MIA , and Tupac Shakur's sexual assault

My opponent is trying to say that Nicki Minaj was trying to empower herself and raise her confidence levels by obtaining breast enlargements, and a number of surgeries which focused on private parts and (Buttocks, breasts etc). I will simplify my refutation against Nicki Minaj in the form of premises.


1.Some of the surgeries Minaj has underwent were done on private parts (Buttocks, Breasts etc). [5]

2. Since her breasts and buttocks are more enlarged, she is more sexually appealing.

3.Therefore, she has sexualized herself more.


These premises are all valid and I have given a source for the one you might disagree on. My case is clear, Nicki Minaj has sexualized her self more and as such is seen more as a sex object than an intelligent and sophisticated woman. So because of this, she can not be seen as a female icon.


Regarding Tupac, he cannot be seen as a supporter for females because he was convicted in a sexual assault case. Whatever defence my opponent might bring up for Tupac, he at least had some roles in this case because he was convicted. [6]


You posted a song about MIA which I don't see very empowering to women. The message is actually to perform reckless activities so one dies younger. The main chorus of the whole song is as follows:


Live fast, die young
Bad girls do it well
Live fast, die young
Bad girls do it well


I fail to see what is so empowering to women about the main body of the whole song. I would say this is actually bad for women because it is encouraging them to die young by being 'bad'. I think the bad means doing drugs, alcohol etc since that is harmful and causes one to die early.


Rebuttal # 3

Vulgarity means lacking sophistication and taste so by saying there are vulgar lyrics and saying there is deep meaning is contradicting yourself. If the lyrics are vulgar, there can be no deep meaning and understanding to them. If you are arguing the curse words have meaning to them you can say they are vulgar but you have.


Sources

http://www.journal-for-young-scientists.net... [1]

http://resources.prev.org... [2]

http://ajph.aphapublications.org... [3]

http://www.webmd.com... [4]

http://www.plasticcelebritysurgery.com... [5]

http://www.nytimes.com... [6]
;

Debate Round No. 3
Doneeh

Con


#1


False, it was not a concession. If you read it properly, you’d see that I said it was an influence. Not a negative, nor positive one. Simply the word influence. You assumed so, but you were jumping the gun all too quickly here. You could have easily sent a PM or comment asking if it was a concession instead of proposing a notion despite the ambiguity present, but you took the liberty of assuming so.


Also, your source for this argument seems quite biased and unsavory. Such vulgar words like “bullsh!t” or “negro” don’t seem proper of a study. To add to this, in that very same source is this:


“Until today the research cannot decide what's true and what's not. We cannot say the dangers of rap have been proven, nor have they been disproved.”


It appears that that is well enough to say that rap isn’t negative, nor can it be proven positive. The spectrum is far too wide to assume either, and it is too preemptive to argue that it is negative.


The Berkeley study also seems skewed in the sense that it comes from an area that has high crime rates. Compare [1] and [2]. Obviously crime and a generally less savory environment are going to affect the populace, including the young women. Frankly, the environment is what pushes people to do as they do, not the music around them, rap included. In your WebMD source, it was also stated that rap isn’t even listened to as much by female African-Americans then white, suburban youth. Obviously something doesn’t add up properly here. Studies done on such a topic are subject to bias, and should be taken without complete faith.


Regarding the Tupac video, the video seems to work fine on my end. Also, Tupac did not escalate the violence to the point where it was unjust, whereas he was simply protecting his property from two drunk, armed men.


#2


In your source on Nicki Minaj, it states that those are simply plastic surgery rumors, not actual, proven evidence that can hold up on its own. With that, Ms. Minaj could simply be using padded enhancers. Unless actual proof is given that doesn’t rely on tabloid rumors, I consider this inadmissible. Sexualizing herself does not mean she isn’t a female icon, it simply means she goes about it in a less favorable way. One must realize she’s a savvy business woman who knows that she can use her looks to increase her sales.


Referring back to the Tupac case, I will admit he was convicted, but not that his role in the case was anything more than the police choosing him as the main suspect without proper backing and his previous affiliation with the woman in question. Neither proves he did the crime (him in specific, that is), nor his role in it.


Onto M.I.A., it seems that you have missed the point entirely of the video. “Live Fast, Die Young” is a common phrase used throughout rap. Usually, whoever speaks it implies that they choose to live a fast life no matter their age. The point would to live a full life and dying “young” at heart, something of a rarity. Assuming you actually watched the video, you would have noticed that these are women driving cars in a Middle Eastern environment, specifically Saudi Arabian. The reason for this is to try and show women empowered in a society where they have no rights, such as in Saudi Arabia where women cannot drive and are hindered severely. Her video is a direct criticism of such an environment and a well-made one at that. It was, as this source contains, a political statement on her part.[3] Your interpretation of the lyrics seems to be taken far too literally and without regard to any meanings that stuck in the song.


#3


Vulgar does mean something lacks taste or sophistication, but one has to realize that rappers come from an environment that can easily be considered “vulgar.” What you may deem as vulgar is quite possibly normal for them, and many others. Simply because they are or what they say is vulgar does not mean that their lyrics lack meaning. It means they are using their own form of language to communicate ideas, thoughts, and meaning that is subtle enough to be passed off by anyone who isn’t willing to examine them further or one who lacks understanding of the entirety of it altogether.


Sources-


1. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com...


2. http://maps.google.com...


3. http://en.wikipedia.org...


Phoenix.Wright

Pro

Rebuttals


Rebuttal #1


Concession from my opponent

It was a concession even though you may disagree with me. You conceded unintentionally by agreeing that there was a minor influence. You try to defend yourself by saying you said it was just an influence to do alcohol and drugs and is neither positive nor negative. I ask you if rap music is even a minor influence (which it is not) to perform alcohol and drugs what kind of influence is that, positive or negative? I doubt a positive influence would encourage you to do drugs and alcohol. Therefore, it is a negative influence and a concession from your part.


Community arises among people and they find themselves embracing their environment in opposed to resisting it. Rap is minor to this, and at best, a background factor.”

Studies and Evidence to suggest rap music is neagtive influence with regards to alcohol and drugs

You then argue my source is biased and isn't a proper study, a baseless claim. You then quote that it says we don't know etc, out of context. The entire article is saying rap music is a negative influence but that section simply means we cannot 100% or conclusively scientifically determine whether rap music is right or wrong. This is the same thing with morals. A scientific equation cannot show that murder is wrong, however we know it is wrong. That is all it is saying. How about all my other sources and studies, are they all biased? My opponent is disregarding all the evidence and simply is labelling them as biased and skewed. He has a heavy BOP with regards to the resolution since he instigated this debate and has yet to provide sources.

I doubt Tupac was simply trying to cause the least damage possible and protect himself. The best default position to take is that they both had roles escalating the violence. If you insist only the police were at fault produce your proof

Rebuttal # 2

Nicki Minaj, MIA and Tupac not supporters of women. Rap music generally objectifies women

Actually the evidence is sound. If one looks at pictures of Nicki Minaj before her rise and after there are major differences. I showed that in Click Clack and Super Bass and the pictures in my source[1]. How could these be merely rumours if one can see the differences on her music videos and her photos?

Even if we agree for a while that she didn't undergo surgery for sake of argument, you still say she has sexualized herself more and is selling her body to the audience. Lets take a look at what you said:

In your source on Nicki Minaj, it states that those are simply plastic surgery rumors, not actual, proven evidence that can hold up on its own. With that, Ms. Minaj could simply be using padded enhancers.

One must realize she’s a savvy business woman who knows that she can use her looks to increase her sales.” (Bold emphasis mine)


So she indeed has sexualized herself more and is using her body (looks) to gain profit. This is a form of prostitution and as such Nicki Minaj cannot be seen as a female icon


Since you agree Tupac was convicted of the crime but insist he had no roles in the crime and the police merely chose him as a main suspect. I am not even saying that Tupac was the main person or anything, at the very bare minimum he must have had a negative role in the case even if minor. The court system doesn't convict people for absolutely no reason you know. Produce you proof, your proof cannot be Tupac's words because that is biased.


I have watched the music video and I don't agree that it empowers women in any whatsoever. Her words are not encouraging in any way shape of form. You say:


The point would to live a full life and dying “young” at heart, something of a rarity.”

This is what you say the phrase “Live fast die young” means, to die young at heart?! I am sorry but this is far from the truth. You are interpreting the phrase and twisting it too much. This phrase is indeed common in rap music and it means exactly what it means to die young by living a reckless life. A similiar phrase is “Live fast, die pretty” which means to enjoy all the best pleasures of life which cause you to die young ergo prettier since you are younger. You then make a huge generalization, prove that women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed. Many religious people cover themselves such as nuns and bishops are they oppressed too? Is exposing yourself then liberation?


Rebuttal # 3

If what they are saying is deemed vulgar whether from anyone's perspective, it is not deep but shallow. I don't disagree that some rap songs with curse words can be more deep but that is not a vulgar song. A vulgar rap song is one with curse words and no depth and you agreed that there are. You even said the rapper is vulgar which means they are unintellectual whatsoever and just spew garbage out of their mouths!





Sources

http://www.plasticcelebritysurgery.com... [1]

http://www.darshanchande.com... [2]

Debate Round No. 4
Doneeh

Con


#1


Assuming it was in fact a concession is a petty attempt to gain ground by possibly purposely misinterpreting my argument as so. I clearly stated it was an influence and with nothing else tied to that statement. My opponent sticks words to mine in order to benefit his own argument without actually taking in what I’ve said in serious consideration.


What I have stated in regards to rap influence is not baseless, but common sense. Of course youth in an area with a high crime rate are going to use music as a means of escape, but that doesn’t mean they’ll act out anything said in the lyrics. And what will be the first thing a researcher will assume is influencing them that they see when a youth acts out and commits a crime? The music, obviously, with when the environment is ignored and left out. Do these sources contain interviews or first-hand accounts as to the youth’s experiences? It seems as though they’re faceless studies assuming research on one factor in the lives of America’s youth without consideration to any others. It is in that way that I find it biased and without a serious base to be presented on. The information is interesting, but stems from researchers who have no intrigue in how these people function who they have studied.


Onto Tupac, I’ve already provided a first-hand account of how the scene played out at the time of the event.


#2


My opponent assumes that Ms. Minaj has had performed surgery on herself, despite the fact that such a thing isn’t the only way of changing one’s body. A change in body does not mean that any form of surgery has been performed and nor does it mean she is prostituting her image. Labeling it as such is a radical exaggeration and is in no way harmful to her image as an icon.


Regarding the court systems, they do in fact wrongfully convict without reason. Go back to earlier time in the South as an example. Better yet, these two sources show the bias against African Americans in court: [1] [2]. Mr. Dupree was wrongfully convicted of crimes he didn’t commit, quite possibly in the same way Mr. Shakur almost was. In the second source, the majority of exonerated persons are African American, the same race as Tupac Shakur. Now consider how many others have been wrongfully convicted in our court systems. In that case, court systems do convict without sufficient reason at times. Also, see the proof I was talking about earlier.


I am also interpreting the lyrics to “Bad Girls” in the way M.I.A. implies it. My opponent’s passion for the literal doesn’t allow for a meaningful interpretation of that phrase it seems.


My opponent also compares nuns and bishops to regular women in another country that is biased against females. There is a difference to women being forced by the law to cover themselves to those that do it by religious freedom. Comparing the two and considering them the same things are blatantly ignorant to the oppression women face in that country. Less than 5% of the workforce is held by women, which is the lowest in the world, and is extremely segregated. M.I.A. criticizes that by having women drive in her video, something that is illegal in the country, which is clearly a message. Most reform in that country deals with women’s rights. [3]


#3


I shall reiterate my point again: Because something is vulgar in nature does not mean that said thing is unintellectual. Saying such a thing is unintellectual in itself, and can’t be considered rational when observing the whole of rap. Because something may not seem proper does not mean that it has no depth. Vulgarity is a different medium of speech that relies on using language that isn’t considered proper, but regardless, it has meaning to it. By denying it of that, one deems the population that uses it to be “unintelligent” when such things are untrue. Rappers aren’t “spewing garbage”, they’re sending a message in a way my opponent lacks understanding in.



Sources-


1. http://blackamericanmoney.com...


2. http://www.innocenceproject.org...


3. http://en.wikipedia.org...



Phoenix.Wright

Pro

I would like to remind the audience my position of the debate which is to show there is a negative influence of rap music on youth. This could be very minor but if is still there I win.


Final Rebuttals and Conclusions

I would like to bring in all the threads of my position and give the final conclusions of this debate. I argued at the beginning that I would be defending 3 contentions which are:


Contention #1 Higher youth consumption of alcohol and drugs due to the influence of rap music and Glorification of violence

Contention #2 Sexual objectification of young girls/women, women become useless outside of sex

Contention #3 Constant use of poor and vulgar language




For each of my three contentions I not only argued that each of them are true, I gave various studies, research and professional opinion regarding two of the first contentions. I gave at least 4-5 studies, research etc for each which were undertaken by reputable sources such has the Prevention Research Center Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation , and American Public Health Association. These are unbiased and scientific in nature.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who has provided more evidence in favour of their position? unfulfilled BOP for Con

Remember, My opponent's position is to show there is no negative influence whatsoever of rap music on youth. This is a very heavy BOP he has to prove and he was the instigator of the debate but has only provided a song or two and no research at all. His songs are useless because that doesn't show the general case of rap songs and picks a good song or two which anyone can do. My opponent constantly says my evidence is biased when it isn't. I have shown that after 1993, 70% of rap songs talked about drugs which is astounding. I have shown that this is linked to youth [1] My opponent says that rappers are unintentionally promoting drugs but I responded that it doesn't matter whether there promote unintentionally or intentionally, the fact remains that they are promoting it!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Concession

My opponent unintentionally conceded the debate! He said in his R3 response:

To start, the youth is in fact in the same environment that most rappers have come from, but rappers aren’t the main influence in their lives.”

Rap is minor to this, and at best, a background factor.”

I said that my opponent agrees that rap music is at least a minor negative influence which proves my case since I only have to show it has even a minor negative influence. He argued that he only said it was an influence and neither positive nor negative. I then said it was negative because if rap music helps perform alcohol and drugs then it is indeed negative and not positive. That can easily be deduced. My opponent has conceded unintentionally!!



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Con's female icons have been refuted

My opponent keeps on trying to say there are female icons for rap but my opponent's ones aren't. I have shown that how much Nicki Minaj has changed when starting out and now. She has sexualized herself more if one looks at Click Clack and Super Bass and therefor cannot be an icon. MIA song lyrics are not even empowering to women and are simply calling women or anybody in general to be more reckless by living fast and dying young. Tupac was convicted for sexual assault charges for women which simply works against him and my opponent agreed with me.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Vulgar language in rap music

Finally my opponent agrees there are vulgar songs and vulgar rappers. What does vulgar mean?

http://www.answers.com...

Crudely indecent.

  1. Deficient in taste, delicacy, or refinement.

  2. Marked by a lack of good breeding; boorish. See synonyms at common.

  3. Offensively excessive in self-display or expenditure; ostentatious: the huge vulgar houses and cars of the newly rich.


My opponent then says that they can have deep meaning. Vulgar means lacking in taste and sophistication so if my opponent says vulgar rap songs are deep he is merely contradicting himself which he has. It is impossible to have vulgar rap songs with deep meaning.


Conclusions

Please audience, I have shown at the very least that there is negative influence in rap music even if it is very minor because that's what I had to show. The supporting research and studies for alcohol and drugs that give a rise of drug use and alcohol in youth surely must be a negative influence. My opponent on the other hand with his heavy BOP hasn't fulfilled it and constantly says I'm biased whereas I cannot even say the same if I wanted to because he hasn't given any proof for his claims. My position is clear and has been proven. VOTE FOR PRO!!!


Sources

http://www.npr.org... [1]

Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Pros case was very good and had a lot of statistical evidence as he provided.

Pro had a strong case with drug usage which he provided statistics, cons arguments weren't convincing here and only posted they didn't mean to and then posted cities. Pro wins this point. Later in the debate pro kept winning the argument.

His next case, which was strong, still stood. He showed the culture makes women worthless and, well, that's sad. He showed the media had a bad influence.

His C3 was correct, rap music increases poor language, cons refutations didn't do it for me.

I think Pro had the stronger arguments and refutations throughout the debate.
Posted by Doneeh 5 years ago
Doneeh
Also, why post a Phoenix Wright video? It doesn't make sense. Layton is better, you know.
Posted by Doneeh 5 years ago
Doneeh
My fault, I need to get it done by Friday is the problem. If it's any consolation, I was running short on time too.
Posted by Phoenix.Wright 5 years ago
Phoenix.Wright
wow, you made the time limit short to respond. You should have made it at least 2 days (48 hours).
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by blackblaze241 5 years ago
blackblaze241
DoneehPhoenix.WrightTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: phoenix wright
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
DoneehPhoenix.WrightTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Early in the debate, Con conceded that some genres of rap had a negative influence while not all had a negative influence. Pro conceded the influence was not the dominant one while maintaining it was negative. The debate played out in that pattern. The conclusion is that rap as a whole has a small negative influence. Pro referenced some studies to support his viewpoint, Con did not. Con did an especially good job of presenting his case clearly, so I gave him the S
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
DoneehPhoenix.WrightTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro proved his point and rebutted Con, causing him not to meat BoP.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
DoneehPhoenix.WrightTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Comments
Vote Placed by GeoLaureate8 5 years ago
GeoLaureate8
DoneehPhoenix.WrightTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro brought up a bunch of nonsense smearing hip hop culture. He used a certain group of rappers who creep into the mainstream who degrade women, but that group doesnt represent hip hop as a whole. And even the ones that are perceived to degrade women actually don't. It also could be argued that the underground rap scene is the true essence of hip hop while the rest is just radio/club music that happens to have rapping mixed into it.