The Instigator
tbtaylor
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
elizabethPC
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

Does existence exist???

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
elizabethPC
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2010 Category: Science
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,547 times Debate No: 10986
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (5)

 

tbtaylor

Con

First the aff
elizabethPC

Pro

Reality is that which exists"
it is because I agree with Galt, in the position that without the existence theory in general, there would be no reality, nor mankind, that I agree to accept affirmation of today's round: Does existence exist."
for clarification of today's round I offer the following definitions. All of these can be found within Webster's online dictionary.
EXISTENCE: the state or fact of existing; being.
EXIST: to have life or animation; live.
the highest value within today's round is the essence of life. This is defined as a state of being, or of continuing to live within the atmosphere, no matter the state. this is most important because with the fact that at least one individual creature has the ability to consume breath, there is definite proof that existence does in fact, exist.
the best Value-Criterion for evaluating the resolution is Ayn Rand's theory of existence. this theory states that Existence is a self-sufficient primary. This means that it is not a product of a supernatural dimension, or of anything else. There is nothing antecedent to existence, nothing apart from it—and no alternative to it. Existence exists—and only existence exists. Its existence and its nature are irreducible and unalterable
C1: if nothing exists, there can be no consciousness.
C2:There is degree of knowledge stating the existence theory
C3: To exist is to be something
C1: if nothing exists, there can be no consciousness: a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms. A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something. If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.

C2:There is degree of knowledge stating the existence theory:
these two—existence and consciousness—are axioms you cannot escape, these two are the irreducible primaries implied in any action you undertake, in any part of your knowledge and in its sum, from the first ray of light you perceive at the start of your life to the widest erudition you might acquire at its end. Whether you know the shape of a pebble or the structure of a solar system, the axioms remain the same: that it exists and that you know it.

C3: To exist is to be something:
as distinguished from the nothing of nonexistent, it is to be an entity of a specific nature made of specific attributes. Centuries ago, the man who was—no matter what his errors—the greatest of your philosophers, has stated the formula defining the concept of existence and the rule of all knowledge: A is A. A thing is itself. You have never grasped the meaning of his statement. I am here to complete it: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification

I have shown you that based on Ayn Rand, existence merely exists if one axiom of life is present, and the essence of life is highest value when defining mere existence.
I urge an affirmative ballot.
:):):)
Debate Round No. 1
tbtaylor

Con

tbtaylor forfeited this round.
elizabethPC

Pro

because of time constraints my opponent had to forfeit the last round. do to her inconvenience I also accept fort at ion of this round in order to be fair. I await my opponents attack. thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
tbtaylor

Con

The highest value within today's round is Illusion defined as false idea, conception. The mind makes up illusion all the time. Like when you are stranded in the desert for days without food and water you imagine something is there.
The best criteron is theory of illusion- defined as thinking something is there and it is not....

Just because you think something is there doesn't mean it... Like I stated above you mind can make up stuff to fit what is happening to you.

On to her case...
She states that anna ran says existence exist but who says she exist it could be another illusion that your mind is setting off
elizabethPC

Pro

my opponents value of illusion falls becuase there must be a mind present in order to create illusion, and if a living mind is present, then there is proof of the existing.

i cross apply my attack on my opponents valua to her criterion. she says you imagine something that is not there. but what she fails to realize is that a mind must be present to form this illusion, other wise there would be no illusions. Even under solispsism a mind exists to create the illusion

again to rebuild, cross apply. a mind must be present to create an illusion. i urge affirmative.
Debate Round No. 3
tbtaylor

Con

Where is the proof that a mind there.... Everything you believe could be made up....

I urge negative
elizabethPC

Pro

For a final time, I state: There must be something, mind, atom, watever it may be, present to create this so called optical allusion. If my opponent cannot provide a way for this to be so without any form of existance, my argument stands. I urge an affirmative ballot taht Existance must exist. Thank You.
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by True2GaGa 7 years ago
True2GaGa
Vote Bombs decided this debate.
Posted by elizabethPC 7 years ago
elizabethPC
ouchhhhhhhhhhhhh Puck's last comment made my head hurt. This is way too much non-existant, existant mishmosh. Its too absurd.
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
"it is saying reality doesn't exist, it is all an illusion"

Required is firstly a perception of the illusion, an existent whereupon 'illusion' is enacted, secondly the illusion itself is an existent, it is something enacted. Otherwise we'd be having more silly contradictory absurdities like not experiencing non existent illusions as proof of non existence. :)
Posted by elizabethPC 7 years ago
elizabethPC
i know Rand's ethnicity and such, i was quoting a guy named john from my class, who steriotyped Germans very poorly
Posted by tbtaylor 7 years ago
tbtaylor
it is saying reality doesn't exist, it is all an illusion
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
That's just the illusion talking.
Posted by Vi_Veri 7 years ago
Vi_Veri
Reality being an illusion still doesn't disprove existence existing.
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
"its common though, because she is german."

She was from Russia. Then moved to the U.S. :P
Posted by tbtaylor 7 years ago
tbtaylor
if i could edit my last speech i would.... "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one -Albert Einstein
Posted by elizabethPC 7 years ago
elizabethPC
what lies lol. its common though, because she is german.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by tbtaylor 7 years ago
tbtaylor
tbtaylorelizabethPCTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by J.Kenyon 7 years ago
J.Kenyon
tbtaylorelizabethPCTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by elizabethPC 7 years ago
elizabethPC
tbtaylorelizabethPCTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by drumills 7 years ago
drumills
tbtaylorelizabethPCTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Awed 7 years ago
Awed
tbtaylorelizabethPCTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07