The Instigator
djchoi0407
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Dazedinday
Pro (for)
Winning
20 Points

Does race have anything to do with career?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,540 times Debate No: 14385
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

djchoi0407

Con

First off, I'd like you guys to know that I'm new here and I don't know how things work.. Well, I'm 18 years old, and during my 18 years of living, I've noticed that race has a lot to do with careers. I'm just thinking that isn't it unfair for a country that states that everybody's "equal" and then you see a big difference in races and the careers they have?
Dazedinday

Pro

First, I will acknowledge that your resolve in this argument is that 'race' has something to do with career. In this case, I will argue that race has little or nothing to do with career in general.

To testify, you must take comparison from an equal standpoint. Let's say there are two families. One is African American, and one is white. Both family's have an only child. The only child both have same GPA, same SAT scores, and same trouble records, and same 'everything'. In fact, the two families are a clone of each other just in different color.
It is likely 'they' will get a similar job.

However, in today's society, this is not the case. It is quite rare to see both kind of races having the same 'everything' that factors into one's career. If you saw a rich and powerful African American family, then you'll likely see their children also rich and powerful. In fact, what does matter is the background behind one's family instead of race. That is the general case, which I think the instigator is confusing with.

Other than family, another powerful factor is where and how one grows up. It is the power of environment. Humans are social creatures, and they adapt and mimic whatever is around them.
For example, if you've grown a white child in an environment where children are taught to do wrong, steal, and cause trouble, and do nothing but basketball- then you will likely grow a 'white' person that do wrong, steal, and cause trouble.
One who grew up there would most likely not excel in academics, and might even be a miracle if one even had dreams of career.
Another example, if you've grown an African American child in an environment where children are taught to do right, study, and be obedient to grown ups- then you will likely grow an 'African American' person that do right, study, and be respectful to others.
Most likely, this person will excel in today's society.

As I've pointed out, race is not a true factor in one's career. In fact, there are some people who excel in society despite their environment.
Debate Round No. 1
djchoi0407

Con

I would like to start round 2 saying thank you for replying to my argument. As I've stated before I'm new here, and I don't know how this works exactly.

Now, Back to the subject. The argument you stated about the 2 equal families, excluding race, makes sense, correct? However, look at today's society. It's much more common to see rich white families over African American, Asian, or Hispanic families. People also refer to rich neighborhoods as "white" neighborhoods and poor ones "black" neighborhoods. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Also, often you'll see African American, Asian, Hispanic children with amazing GPA's and achievements. Of course, you'll think that they'll have a bright future ahead for them. However, it's almost always a white child that gets to an ivy league school and ends up with a high salary job leaving the other academically smart children to the "leftovers."

Of course, I'm not saying that it's always the case; however, a large majority of the time it seems like race does have a big part in careers, and I don't think it's just.
Dazedinday

Pro

Thank you for replying. I would also like to kindly say that it works just as any other debates does.

I don't think it's coincidence, that race has nothing to do with careers. However, within our grasp of knowledge- the only sure way of comparing one aspect is to set other aspects the same. It is thus in science. Scientific modeling demands that you leave the determinants other than the one you want to compare; the same.

And, under this sentence is the demographics of the united states.
http://www.indexmundi.com...
If you see here, under ethnic groups, America consists of approximately 80% Whites, 12.85% Blacks, 4.43% Asians... and so on. Why am I stressing the demographics of US? Because it tells us that it is not merely race that makes many whites enroll in prestigious universities and good pay, it just is the fact that they are so 'many'.

Taking the demographics of Harvard
http://www.provost.harvard.edu...
We see that there are 42.6% 'whites'. That's significantly less than what the demographics of United States suggest. The demographics seem about the same with other IvyLeagues, but it tells us that Universities aren't taking in 'whites' as you say they are.

About your statements under 3rd paragraph: you'll need more proof about your 3rd paragraph. I cannot know of your experience, as well as you cannot know of mine. But, facts as we can all see is one to trust in for a reasonable conclusion. In fact, the current facts (demographics of Harvard) is going against your statements.

Lastly, may I stress that comparison on the effects of race must be done at an equal footing, free of determinants that alter results. What you say in the first place is unprovable. And again, the facts are against your statements. I have stated my case.
Debate Round No. 2
djchoi0407

Con

I admit my argument regarding race and ivy league schools was improvable and ignorant. I think I should do more research and pondering before I post next time.. However, your statement on how there are so "many" of whites that contribute to their success really hit me.

Now, is that fair to the minorities? Just because they are not in the minorities, is it fair for them to have less an opportunity than the people in the majority? I know it isn't something that can be helped. But, I still can't help but think it's unfair. If people are in the minority, shouldn't they get help? No matter how hard they work to become equal, it's just not possible. We all have to agree on that.

This is all I have to say. I hope next time I'm more prepared and knowledgeable. Sorry for not being a great debater.
Dazedinday

Pro

Thank you for debating, and personally, I hope you'll stick around much longer. And now with my closing statement.
And uh, I'm not sure what you meant by your 2nd to 3rd line of paragraph 1. If I intended that meaning, I probably wouldn't be surprised right now.

For your argument in the 2nd paragraph, I'd like to say that ratio wise, minorities have much easier time getting into prestigious universities. I cannot say the same for every minority, but the sad truth is when there is success, there also must be failure. It is not like they aren't taking any minorities.

Now if you're wondering why your argument was baseless, I'd like to introduce you to Pareto's principle.
http://management.about.com...
Pareto principle is an economic concept that in any market, approximately 80% of one's sales will come from the top 20% of one's consumers. It is also so within a certain population (i.e. students). If you take that into consideration, the ratio of race within universities should coincide with the ratio of race within a country. It is in fact, not true. There may be certain explanations to this, but by looking at the facts, it is unlikely that there is an unfair bias that affects the outcome whether or not one is accepted.

And on the other hand, I do believe there must be some help toward the needy. But the minority isn't always the needy. Those who are needy cannot afford education like the rich can. They probably never can. But there could always be help to guide them where it is best.

And I'd also like to present my closing statement that race itself is not a factor in career, or at least very insignificant than other factors.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by djchoi0407 6 years ago
djchoi0407
Thank you writinggirl123 and Dmetall for your kind words and advise. I'll definately look into my subjects more from now on. I was wondering if this argument gets deleted after a while?
Posted by Dmetal 6 years ago
Dmetal
I like djchoi0407's subject; however, the argument is weak. Defiantly look into it more. One person to look into for subjects on race and culture is Stuart Hall, and Categorically Unequal: The American Stratification System by Douglas Massey. That would be a good start.
Posted by writinggirl123 6 years ago
writinggirl123
you know, there's something about you, djchoi0407 that i really like.
Posted by djchoi0407 6 years ago
djchoi0407
Oh, I thought against meant like I'm against racism in careers..haha sorry
Posted by Dazedinday 6 years ago
Dazedinday
Ugh, I just realized you took your side wrong.
You should be 'for' and I should be 'against'.
UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by simplymara 6 years ago
simplymara
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Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
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Vote Placed by Cobo 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by Grape 6 years ago
Grape
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