The Instigator
SecularMerlin
Con (against)
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The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
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0 Points

Does religion provide a better understanding of morality.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/26/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 210 times Debate No: 105307
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

SecularMerlin

Con

Is there a holy book that provides an inerrant moral code, or do they all require interpretation to fit one's own personal moral code. I conclude that the latter proposition is likely true.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I accept your debate ... proceed please!
Debate Round No. 1
SecularMerlin

Con

Just this, I find it highly unlikely that any moral code can or indeed should persist if our understanding of right and wrong should evolve, say by the idea that women deserve equal treatment or that slavery is wrong, unless that moral code can likewise evolve, through amendments for example.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Question#1 Does religion provide a better understanding of morality.
Answer: NO

Rationale: Religion is a belief only ... it does mean truth! God on the other hand is NO RELIGION!

What that means is that God is God, and provides man the OPTION to choose Eternal Life with Him or Without Him! The FREE WILL? Ends right there!

See the REAL God isn"t interested in human ego, opinion nor conjecture! Doesn"t waste His time on what YOU BELIEVE or what you DON"T believe! That just floors Christians, because they have been told so much, but because thats all they spend their time doing is LISTENING TO EVERYBODY ELSE! They just stagnate. Their saved ... sure, cause that"s FREE. But they are going nowhere as far as maturity is concerned! The why is simple!

I can sit here and LISTEN to astronauts talking about what they do ... but if I don"t pick up the Manual? Astronauts NOT in my future! To BE an ASTRONAUT YOU need to KNOW what your doing not what they are saying? You see? Simple!
Most Christians are illiterate Where the Bibles concerned that"s why they all believe something different!

Question#2 Is there a holy book that provides an inerrant moral code
Answer:YES

Rationale: The Holy Bible (more specific- The King James Bible 1611)
Not dinging other interpretations, but I haven"t READ all other interpretations yet so I stick with the original.

The reason is because the Bible TELLS all believers of God precisely how, and what is their responsibility in our behavior from Life to Death! It is the epitome of moral standards in all of the World.

That having BEEN said. People are people, even Christians, there are those who attempt vigorously to adhere to the letter of the scriptures, while others not so inclined to go out of their way, while the UNBELIEVING ignore it entirely!

So yes if everyone went by the bible the World would be moral completely.... not gonna happen though! It"s a fools errand sadly!

Question#3 Or do they all require interpretation to fit one's own personal moral code. I conclude that the latter proposition is likely true.
Answer:NO

Rationale: 2 Peter 1
20"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet"s own interpretation of things. 21"For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

THIS specifically says the prophets were not allowed to do it and neither are YOU! Connect this with:
Philippians 3:15
All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.

This tells US, that we go to God for all questions, not MEN!

that there are 43,000 different denominational beliefs TELLS YOU you cannot trust MAN in his interpretations and also gives 2 Peter 1 the ironclad authority that personal interpretations ARE NOT TO BE DONE EVER!

Course you read some Theologians or Scholars say ... that"s not what that means? Really, how are they to know what someone else MEANS all these centuries later? See what I mean? Once you start violating scriptures its downhill from there!

Can you evolve on perfection? Isn"t perfect as good as its ever gonna get?

If you went and read the Bible it would tell you how to treat your fellow man, how to be honorable, how to be truthful, how to be loving, how to be kind ... and not JUST how to be ... but how to be PERFECTLY SO!

So your on a fools errand! You pursue something already GIVEN TO YOU! That YOUR NOT DOING IT? That"s on you isn"t it? That"s not on Men or God.

Look down at them feet ...they BELONG TO YOU, not to Men what you chose to do is totally on you?

Me? I do my best to Live as God directs! I highly recommend it! But here"s the thing! I never allow anyone else"s behavior to influence MY BEHAVIOR! I live as I live to please God as much as humanly possible. Because I do, God orders my Life and does so magnificently, so I have no complaints. I know, my actions are my responsibility , thus my consequences. I try to keep that in prospective!

Nobody makes me act anyway ... I am totally responsible for my conduct. God never allows me to blame others for MY misconducts. Of course He"s RIGHT, He"s God!
Debate Round No. 2
SecularMerlin

Con

The king James bible is a translation of a translation etc... you can hardly call it the original.

However you are correct that it sets out a pretty clearly defined set of rules. Among them injunctions to stone to death many people such as homosexual, divorced women, non virgins, and unruly children. It also includes clearly defined rules for owning a person as property, passing them on to your children and beating them as long as they don't die in "a day or two". I know I know it says some very nice things about love too, but it only takes an observation of one immoral thing in your book and it is no longer "inerrantly moral". It in fact fails to be so by definition.
By the by the fact that there are 43000 denominations hardly lends credence that any of them are inerrantly correct (there are only 31102 words in the bible, surely it doesn't need more interpretations than it has words).
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

That hardly diminishes the validity of the book. That you expressed no more knowledge of the actual truths in the Bible itself .. like that prophecies which have been proven true ... proven to those who actually LOOK?

What I will say is that the Bible isn"t written for you, Isaiah tells US of the curse your presently under which explains your ignorance of the Word!
Isaiah 6
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" 9 He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand.' 10 "Render the hearts of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim, Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.""

It"s not for nothing you are blinded to truth. There is a time where you MUST choose! It hasn"t arrived yet but it will.

You see that you don"t believe in Hell like the rest of your speech, has no impact on REALITY. That YOU do not know, what"s before you, is a loss only to you! But I stray from the point!

The point is is that Your perception of the Bible is Flawed in the extreme. What is is and what it points out to the Christian is the matter of the history of the World from its inception to its ending. Just as the civil war books talk of the horrors of that time period, the Bible does and explains the same. BUT, it is past and what is on the horizon is approaching.

Those of us who study scripture waste no time on the History as it means nothing! We look at what is approaching. This requires a clear mind and steady searching for the indicators of events which the bible readily shows to US (The Believers). We don"t concern ourselves whether YOU get it or not! That"s not our function nor our point!

Our function is to inform the masses, not to prove anything, (God insists THEY look for themselves). Again the Bible is a Living Book! Meaning it reveals things to those who follow it, that means we are instructed as we become mature in the Bible, and our attention is gradually drawn away from History, and on into what is yet to come!

For example, we are instructed in Ezekiel 3 that we are to WARN the sinner, that they will die in their sin. The sinner then has a choice ... come to God for forgiveness and Life or Die and go to The Lake of Fire which is the second Death, defined in Revelation 20.

It warns US in the same chapter that if we do not do this, your blood is accounted to US!

It tells us in Matthew 7:6 that we are NOT to reveal what is sacred to ... dogs and pigs (that"s what God calls You and all unbelievers) because He knows you ... like you JUST DID, will demean that which is Holy! Causing Him to punish you worse when the time comes,and He already knows that your a sinner is enough to send you to Hell, why punish you now!

That having been said the facts are, between the two of US I am the expert in Bible and scripture, so we won"t be going off your opinions thank you. I have experience and instruction, you have opinions from morons (a stupid person) by definition not insult.

People use that word as insults, and although it is demeaning it nevertheless is a true statement regarding the atheists and unbelievers. Indeed I challenge you to come up with a truer statement for someone who IS AWARE, of the subject of God, aware of the rumor that there exists a Hell, aware that all who DO NOT KNOW God WILL GO THERE, and be stupid enough NOT TO RESEARCH IT. Hanging around on the debate boards does not constitute study!
that"s ALL of you in a nutshell!
"I don"t THINK it exists?" so I"m choosing to go there because I"m arrogant, Lazy, self absorbed .... I mean clearly not the excuse of the sharpest tools in the shed huh?

Stupid as in the REAL definition which IS having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

Honestly despite the offense you might take at the truth, it should by no means diminish THE TRUTH, should it? I mean you call a cow a cow right? Why? cause its a COW! Stupid IS as Stupid DOES!

At any rate the information you have been given IS accurate. those of us who KNOW the scriptures could pullout the perfect examples of moral good in the existence of Man. But let"s be honest? Your not concerned about that or you could have simply gone to the Bible and instead of looking for something that you can justify badmouthing it ... you would have looked for how you SHOULD BEHAVE!

Your only interested in pursuing something to occupy your life till you die and go to Hell I get it! So for what its worth I hope you win ... cause your Losing everything, when it comes to Life and eternity ... and your doing THAT on purpose!

Pity, just so you know you have until death to grow a pair and stand up for truth, or just live on your knees believing whatever Man tells you to believe! In the end God sees it as YOUR CHOICE, and He"s gonna say it by JUDGEMENT!

God is in charge, what He says IS what is going to be, not what your pathetic atheist, have no life friends are telling you? Their stupid, and so long as your listening to THEM .... so are you?

Your choice, your consequence God don"t give passes for ignorance. Look at my profile ... see I lose all the time, BUT that"s because the brainless Athiests, and unbelievers are the only ones voting for my opponent.

Truth is they don"t care about you, they just hate me. I"m okay with that. Their only angry cause I told them they are going to Hell because they don"t know God! Voting against me isn"t going to change that! You won"t find any believers voting for Athiests, well maybe one or two.

Me, I look at it like your an Alcoholic, surrounded by other alcoholics ... sure your normal, your the one whose right goes the saying! Here they mislead you clear up till you lose everything, try to find one of them to help you out then! Their all gone!

So sad .... so sad!

But hey you got your friends, you don"t need Heaven .... right?
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by missmedic 2 weeks ago
missmedic
We don't base morality on revelation from authority, that would render us merely obedient. How does a dogmatic book make moral progress?
Posted by canis 2 weeks ago
canis
Does religion provide a better understanding of morality.
Religion is just a programming of your mind...Morality is just a programming of your mind...The question you have to ask youself is ... what am I without this programming ?..And how do I program to be me ?
Posted by SecularMerlin 2 weeks ago
SecularMerlin
Listen servantofchrist I'm sorry you lose all the time and I'm glad it doesn't bother you but have you considered that quoting the bible may not be the best way to convince am atheist of something. If it's truths are really universal surely you can point to some outside proof to make your point. Also I suspect you have blocked me which makes me sad
Posted by SecularMerlin 2 weeks ago
SecularMerlin
If that is your stance perhaps you could explain how a moral absolute can best be derived from any static message that can be interpreted as having two meanings. For example the laws of a country can be and are subject to change without the moral understanding of the citizenry, but a holy book if it is considered to contain amoral ideas must be interpreted into something they are not or completely ignored by a proponent of that religion because it's text remains unchanged, or if it is changed how it is still holy at all.
Posted by philochristos 2 weeks ago
philochristos
This seems like a false dichotomy to me. Even if there were a holy book that contained an infallible moral code, it would still need to be interpreted. Anything you write is subject to being misunderstood, so whenever we read anything at all, we are interpreting it. It doesn't matter whether it's infallible or not.
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