The Instigator
jsonn5
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
MoonDragon613
Con (against)
Losing
24 Points

Does the 2nd ammendment give us the right to own guns?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/9/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,221 times Debate No: 3147
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (6)
Votes (20)

 

jsonn5

Pro

The 2nd ammendment does give us the right to own guns. It is absurd that our great country is having to take this to the supreme court because an extreme leftist is saying we should not be allowed to protect ourselves in our own house.
MoonDragon613

Con

Should we have the right to bear guns and does the 2nd Amendment give us the right to own guns are two separate issues. Since the debate topic is "Does", the second sentence is irrelevant. As to the first sentence, my opponent fails to actually tell us what the 2nd amendment says.

Now with that being said, I'll just assume my opponent here pasted the Second Amendment, which says:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." As I'm sure my opponent, being the educated student he is, understands that the Constitution, and the Bill of Amendments, was created to restrict the authority and power of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Ergo, the 2nd Amendment, regardless of whether or not it actually does forbid the federal government from instituting bans on gun ownership, DOES NOT forbid State governments from forbidding individuals from owning guns.

Therefore the 2nd Amendment does not give us the right to own guns since State governments have the authority to institute any law they desire regarding the ownership of guns.
Debate Round No. 1
jsonn5

Pro

Well first of all I would like to point out it is the Bill of Rights not the Bill of Amendments. However, I never said that certain individuals should not be able to own guns the decleration says they can however. The thought of states being able to ban guns from people will be tried in the Supreme Court coming up this month I believe. So even if a bill would have passed through a state legislature that bill would be tried in the highest court in the land. I still do not under stand how the second amendment does not give somebody the right to own a gun when it says right there "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..." please explain to me how that says that a person does not have a right to own a fire arm.
MoonDragon613

Con

Whoops =P. I was originally going to refer to all Amendments, then switched to the Bill of Rights and made a slip there.

Anyway:
"I still do not under stand how the second amendment does not give somebody the right to own a gun when it says right there "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..." please explain to me how that says that a person does not have a right to own a fire arm."

A common misunderstanding is that somehow the Bill of Rights, endows certain inalienable rights to all Americans. But the truth is, the Bill of Rights, technically speaking, only forbids the Federal Government, i.e. Congress and the President, from making laws or taking action. It DOES NOT prohibit the State governments. Every state has its own State Constitution. State laws are constrained by their own constitutions, not by the federal Constitution.

So basically if Congress tomorrow passed a law saying no one may own an AK-47, then this might go against and infringe upon the 2nd Amendment. If New York passes a law saying no one may own an AK-47, then the 2nd Amendment does not apply.

Now the 14th Amendment gives the Federal Government some authority of State laws. But that is inapplicable here for 2 reasons. First, until the Supreme Court rules that the 14th Amendment gives the Federal Government the right to forbid gun control, the Constitution will not come into play. Second, even if it does, it would be doing so with the power of the 14th Amendment, not the 2nd.
Debate Round No. 2
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by magpie 8 years ago
magpie
Moon's position on the constitution is wrong on the face of it. If carried to the other ammendments our rights to: free seach, religion, Habeus, self incrimination, etc. would all be at the whim of the various states. In other words: no rights at all. As to darth, iI'll bet there are many things he doesn't un derstand. Moon has been reserving his (presumed) brain power, a bit excessively, IMHO!
Posted by Darth_Grievous_42 9 years ago
Darth_Grievous_42
I do not see how jsonn5 is winning here. MoonDragon613 Clearly made a better argument. I fear opinions are ruling over the voting status again...
Posted by MoonDragon613 9 years ago
MoonDragon613
Although I typically reserve my brain power to use on those with the capacity to receive, I guess for you I'll make an exception. Count yourself lucky. I'm going to give You a 2 minute lesson on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

In 1787, our Founding Fathers drafted the Constitution to address some of the glaring weaknesses in the Federal Government as created by the Articles of Confederation. They wanted to make a stronger, more unified Federal Government. However, the anti-Federalists were afraid that a powerful Federal central government would take power away from the states and by extension the citizens. In order to secure the approval of the powerful states of New York and Virginia, our founding fathers agreed to a compromise. They would include the Bill of Rights to limit Federal Government's authority even further.

The American Constitution exists to define the authority and limitations of our Federal Government. It and the Bill of Rights states what the Congress, the Supreme Court, and what the Executive (President), can and cannot do. The First 6 words of the First Amendment is as follows: "Congress shall make no law respecting". Contrary to popular misconception, the Bill of Rights was Not created to infringe upon the rights of States. And Criminal Law, e.g. the criminal possession of fire arms, is a State jurisdictional matter. Therefore the 2nd Amendment does Not grant people the blanket right to own guns. It grants people the right to own guns without interference from the Federal government. (and this by the way ignores the whole militia part of the 2nd amendment)

Get it?
Posted by LOOKE 9 years ago
LOOKE
I agree with birdpiercefan3334, I also don't see your point and i dont think its because he is an idot, I think that U R the 1 with the problem. You seem to have a hard time coming up with frosty coated bullstuff to support your radical point of view. But don't get me wrong, its not easy trying to explain how a statment so simple as "you can own guns" really means, you can't own guns. But I suppose I got my head on strait enough to not even try.
Posted by MoonDragon613 9 years ago
MoonDragon613
Your post indicates that my 600 characters in Con Round 1 is beyond your ability to read or understand. Clearly you have not actually read any of the arguments, and so I am certain pasting an explanation here would be a waste of my valuable time. But on the other hand, informing you that I think you're either dyslexic or intellectually challenged is amusing (at least to me) and therefore not a waste of my time. Clearly the concept of federalism is beyond you and your high school must have been abysmal. If someone else wants to take the time to explain my arguments to you, he/she/it, is welcomed to. But I suspect their attempts would prove just as futile since you clearly cannot read beyond 100 characters. And probably the word federalism in and of itself is too large for you

-Hear me Roar!
Posted by birdpiercefan3334 9 years ago
birdpiercefan3334
I affirm this resolution, because of the passage by MoonDragon613 states, "I still do not under stand how the second amendment does not give somebody the right to own a gun when it says right there "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..." please explain to me how that says that a person does not have a right to own a fire arm."

http://www.debate.org...

This clear arg. shows that it is a right for people to keep-and bear-arms.
20 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by magpie 8 years ago
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