The Instigator
Pizza002013
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points

Does the Christian God Exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
FollowerofChrist1955
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 391 times Debate No: 88517
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

Pizza002013

Con

To define the parameters of this debate:
God is a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in Christianity.
The burden of proof is on the Pro side - however truisms from the con side will not be accepted as legitimate arguments in the context of the debate.
Anecdotal evidence, or any personal experience are not considered legitimate arguments.
No further arguments will be presented in the final round - that is to say only counter arguments are acceptable.

To open my case;
Verses of the bible clearly refer to Gods omnipotence.
Psalm 147:5 " "Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."
Psalm 135:6 " "The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths."
The omnipotence paradox definitively and concretely disproves the concept of complete power; If God is all powerful, can He create an object so heavy He cannot lift it? If so, he is not all powerful, as he cannot lift the object, if not then he is not all powerful as he cannot complete the task.
Secondly, evolution vs creation.
Darwinism can be proven to a greater extent than creation; if God did not create humans, it challenges the key principles of the christian faith, and therefore suggests that He does not exist. On this, the burden of proof sits on the shoulders of the Pro, as Evolution is the accepted scientific explanation for the creation of humans.
Thirdly, existence of freewill;
Why would God give humans freewill, and sit idle while we abused it if he existed? Regarding ascension to heaven/free will being used as a tool to separate the faithful and the sinners, why go to the trouble of giving people free will, only to promote narrow mindedness with regards to gender, sexual, and racial equality. Why would a God permit the existence of homosexuals if by their very nature they were sinners? Why would God promote sexual discrimination if He is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. Why would God condone a church which has committed atrocities in His name, from the crusades (directly contradicting the "love thy neighbors" bit), to the hoarding of wealth by the church and refusal to aid those in need beyond token gestures designed to appease the world.

I look forward to hearing your opening arguments.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Pizza002013; Thank you for the opportunity of debate. My hope is to set before all present the parameters with which God CAN BE found. Allow me to point out that the majority of the evidence presented, is not presented to Con, it is presented to all of you who are reading this. I say this because Cons statements demonstrate a mind closed for some time. How do I know? Too MANY why"s that come from a mind that is completely human and as such unspiritual?"

This means that God does NOT allow Con to see because of His depths of sin which cause all nonbelievers to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah:
Isaiah 6:9
He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
Jeremiah 5:21
Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:
Ezekiel 12:2
"Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.

The existence of God is self-evident. Does He exist? Yes. Can He be seen? Yes, Can He show His presence in the lives of believers? Yes. Does He still perform miracles? Yes. Can God BE proven to an open mind? Yes. Can He BE proven to a CLOSED mind? No. We will start here!

Con already in His opening statement TOLD all of you WHO God IS!
Psalm 147:5 " "Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."
Psalm 135:6 " "The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths."

Not the verses I would have chosen ". But they WILL do. Examine its context; SEE exactly WHAT these statements ARE TELLING YOU the NON-believer (capitals used for emphasis only not as shouts or emotions).

Great, mighty in power, has no limit, Does what pleases Him universally!

Question: Does any of that, indicate a subservience spirit towards men? Does it indicate a Being who changes His Will in accordance with man"s moods, emotions, beliefs? Does it indicate that man CAN in ANY way and under any circumstance BE WISER or more correct THAN God? The correct answer is NO to all the above.

How then IS God proved? In His creation of the DNA and The Atom Indisputably the very fabric from which the the totality of the Universe consist and exists! How do I know that you ask? God said so long ago:

Romans 1: 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

WHY God completely ignores Mans opinions is because man cannot see beyond His own nose! The sheer illogical that proceeds from the minds of men can be disturbing and depressing to say the least.

Let"s take "The omnipotence paradox." For example- Not a single worthy premise in the ENTIRETY of the statement, not 1!
Why would God ever NEED to create such a Rock? What purpose is such a rock in the universe? What benefit to human kind or the universe would be SERVED by such a rock?

God CREATES and what He creates HAS purpose and meaning. To embrace such nonsense ... well. I mean really how CAN you reason with a person of such thinking!

Why does Man NOT see Gods existence? Ahhh, but they DO don"t they! There are countless people who not only see but continue to SEE Gods existence in their Lives. Even in the News Media you will hear of Gods interventions, in world happenings. So to say God doesn"t exist is in reality a misnomer (a wrong or inaccurate name or designation. You see God DOES Exist, He is just NOT seen by those who in ignorance are disloyal to Him or refuse to see Him AND who can"t be bothered to look.
The FACTS are these-The whole of mankind are subject to Him, that you refuse to believe it is " well in a word unimportant! As is defined in scripture Man MUST stand before Him and give an account of every sinful action, wrong deed, wrong word, wrong behavior. If even 1 is found, that soul shall be DENIED entrance in Heaven where not even 1 sinful being is allowed! It will be tossed into Hell with all those who served themselves while on the earth, forsaking Gods offer of salvation!

(your statement)Secondly, evolution vs creation.
(My response) It would be more accurate to word it .... Secondly, evolution used to DENY creation. Evolutionist continue to plop pile upon pile of dung upon each other and call it a tower. Please. They toss things like the manatee and other creatures and attempt to imply ". No actual facts mind you, just reasoned hypothesis. Absolutely not a shred of proof that this species is anything OTHER than what it is! A separate species. Amazing how they conveniently IGNORE anything that might stain their delusion. Like the 3 foot dragonfly, that ". Looks like the same dragonflies that exist today " just smaller. Or the countless crustaceans, mollusks, horseshoe crabs, that exist all over the fossil record, which can STILL be found today, just smaller.

Go here: https://en.wikipedia.org...(Krebs)_-_Oberer_Brauner_Jura_-_Bissingen_unter_Teck.jpg
This critter is from the Jurassic period. Bet you can identify it even without a PHD!

Why has no one questioned WHY NONE of the fossil record we CAN identify with species of today ". Did not evolve? They don"t discuss those, because it doesn"t support their delusion. By the way DNA"s description states it encodes information to develop, MAINTAIN, an organism. In layman"s term it ALLOWS its creation to adapt, survive ".. that"s right folks to evolve into a strong organism ". But it still is restricted to ITS BODY PLAN. No dogs from cats, tortoise"s from hares, no horses to whales. No ape to man etc"

your statement)Thirdly, existence of freewill;
Why would God give humans freewill and sit idle while we abused it if he existed? (My response) uhh " It"s called FREEWILL? Would it BE freewill if He DID NOT allow it? You forget there ARE to beings existing God and your father, the devil.. which sadly IS true at the moment BUT the good news is that it doesn"t HAVE to remain that way. Scripture backing:
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father"s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don"t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

(Your statement)Regarding ascension to heaven/free will being used as a tool to separate the faithful and the sinners.
(My response) While I agree man CAN BE a tool, it does not give credence to your argument in that you follow the argument with a myriad of examples which at their core are PEOPLE CENTRIC behaviors demonstrated by only those who DENY Gods existence? Their sinful and want to continue BEING sinful without consequence! Remember your statement of WHO God IS?
God has set forth His guidelines, limitations and boundaries for Life in His creation ". You and you alone of all creation, NO OTHER CREATURE in the whole of creation HAS FREEWILL, CAN YOU TRULY NOT SEE Gods design in THAT alone, How ELSE can you explain it? You CAN'T. But rather than admit it ... you close your minds and eyes! Live uprightly before your God and Live, Live life at YOUR terms and if you sin and you have will and do, suffer the consequence FOR YOUR ERROR.
Debate Round No. 1
Pizza002013

Con

Pizza002013 forfeited this round.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

1. That the existence of God heretofore being labeled a matter of opinion. In point of fact is not. But in fact REQUIRES mankind to willfully deny Him, thereby rightly showing they are worthy to receive the due penalty for their error.

2. That God's creation of the fundamental elements DNA and The Atom which is and has given rise and encompasses the totality of Life's creation and being, from Earth to the minutest of creatures is self-evident, and cannot be challenged at any level with regard to INTELLIGENT DESIGN, without the need of resorting to the ludicrous! Is Hard evidence of His existence!

3. That no justification exist which refutes an advanced Intellect necessary for the creation of the DNA and Atom, and that one must leave the realm of reason and enter into sheer speculation SO ludicrous, that it is in fact MORE reasonable to believe in God than to even attempt to suggest any Form of natural selection or randomness.

4. That a being able to create so advanced a molecule as the DNA/Atom, could most definitely AND easily CREATE other dimensions heretofore known as Heaven, Hell and the Lake of Fire!

5. That no Scientific mind from creation to present can replicate from scratch either the DNA nor Atom. Although being presented the coding themselves from their creator. The undeniable Fact is the whole of our Scientific Knowledge continues to this day to use 2 bit coding (0's and 1's) because Man cannot create 3 dimensional 4 bit code, even when it has BEEN provided BY God WITHIN all of Life!

Intelligently Honest observers of Science, can no longer ignore the facts of INTELLIGENT Design or the Beginnings of the Earth founded on Failed and Flawed reasoning which at best, merely REFUSES to acknowledge the existence of an intelligence greater than their own! Further Scientist to the present age continue to marvel at the indescribable complexity of the Atom which comprises the whole of the Earth and beyond AND YET, is NOT found or Considered to BE solid (tangible)!

"States of matter describe the collective arrangement and properties of molecules or atoms. A single atom cannot be any of those because it is the base component of each. Atoms are comprised of small subatomic particles (which can be further divided), and these particles have mass - it is not necessarily true though to say that they are tangible. It's visually handy to say that protons, neutrons, and electrons are small spheres, but it is not true."Is a building a single brick? A solid is the interaction of atoms; like a "crowd" is the interaction of people. The crowd isn't just one person, or ten people but many people interacting together."

Case in point that a single Atom CAN and DOES exist completely on its own. From a REAL standpoint, your sitting at you desk, kitchen table or living room. IF the atoms which MAKE UP the computer your looking at, were to separate from the others and scatter as Atoms are want to do ..... you don't really need a PHD to know what would happen to your computer do you? Considering the fact that Atoms in a single state CANNOT BE TOUCHED by human hands or machines for that matter. That's right ..... it goes "Poof"

So based on real scientific data on atoms.... wouldn't THAT be harder for you to believe than say .... God? and Yt that is precisely what WOULD happen to anything and everything that consist of Atoms (that's everything), were the Atoms TO separate from each other for any reason! Think about it! and Go look up what Atoms are and do.

http://www.genome.gov... (quotes)
What is DNA?
We all know that elephants only give birth to little elephants, giraffes to giraffes, dogs to dogs and so on for every type of living creature. But why is this so?
The answer lies in a molecule called deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), which contains the biological instructions that make each species unique. DNA, along with the instructions it contains, is passed from adult organisms to their offspring during reproduction.
Where is DNA found?
DNA is found inside a special area of the cell called the nucleus. This packaged form of the DNA is called a chromosome.
During DNA replication, DNA unwinds so it can be copied. At other times in the cell cycle, DNA also unwinds so that its instructions can be used to make proteins and for other biological processes. But during cell division, DNA is in its compact chromosome form to enable transfer to new cells.
Researchers refer to DNA found in the cell's nucleus as nuclear DNA. An organism's complete set of nuclear DNA is called its genome.
Besides the DNA located in the nucleus, humans and other complex organisms also have a small amount of DNA in cell structures known as mitochondria. Mitochondria generate the energy the cell needs to function properly.
In sexual reproduction, organisms inherit half of their nuclear DNA from the male parent and half from the female parent. However, organisms inherit all of their mitochondrial DNA from the female parent. This occurs because only egg cells, and not sperm cells, keep their mitochondria during fertilization.
What is DNA made of?
DNA is made of chemical building blocks called nucleotides. To form a strand of DNA, nucleotides are linked into chains, with the phosphate and sugar groups alternating.

The four types of nitrogen bases found in nucleotides are: adenine (A), thymine (T), guanine (G) and cytosine (C). The order, or sequence, of these bases determines what biological instructions are contained in a strand of DNA. For example, the sequence ATCGTT might instruct for blue eyes, while ATCGCT might instruct for brown.

The complete DNA instruction book, or genome, for a human contains about 3 billion bases and about 20,000 genes on 23 pairs of chromosomes.
What does DNA do?
DNA CONTAINS THE INSTRUCTIONS NEEDED FOR AN ORGANISM TO DEVELOP,SURVIVE AND REPRODUCE. To carry out these functions, DNA sequences must be converted into messages that can be used to produce proteins, which are the complex molecules that do most of the work in our bodies.

The DNA strand is coded to allow for its creations to not ONLY develop, but to SURVIVE, adapt and overcome to evolve and reproduce a stronger more viable organism. This is WHAT the DNA strand DOES, and it is so complex, that WITH the assistance of supercomputers man has YET to fully understand. BUT ...... not so fast. Did you catch what happened? No? let me explain .... RATHER than glorify God for His creation ....... they worshiped the created ....... exchanging the TRUTH FOR A LIE ! ....... Remember those words?
Man refuses to glorify God ..... and instead called His work ..... EVOLUTION!

Who discovered DNA?
The Swiss biochemist Frederich Miescher first observed DNA in the late 1800s. But nearly a century passed from that discovery until researchers unraveled the structure of the DNA molecule and realized its central importance to biology.

For many years, scientists debated which molecule carried life's biological instructions. Most thought that DNA was too simple a molecule to play such a critical role. Instead, they argued that proteins were more likely to carry out this vital function because of their greater complexity and wider variety of forms.

The importance of DNA became clear in 1953 thanks to the work of James Watson, Francis Crick, Maurice Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin. By studying X-ray diffraction patterns and building models, the scientists figured out the double helix structure of DNA - a structure that enables it to carry biological information from one generation to the next.

Course to SAY that THEY DISCOVERED it is sort of lame, I mean it was there all the time wasn't it? So to say that THEY discovered it would be the same as you walking over to a strange car and DISCOVERING its radio. You didn't discover it you just NOTICED it. Right?

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator"who is forever praised. Amen.
Debate Round No. 2
Pizza002013

Con

Pizza002013 forfeited this round.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Enough said till there is a response.
Debate Round No. 3
Pizza002013

Con

Pizza002013 forfeited this round.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Enough said till there is a response.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 7 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
God has been proven to be Real and Evolution a Lie in Debate" The Proof that God exists IS Mans unique existence."
Posted by canis 8 months ago
canis
No. it is a crazy idea that has been spred around in some media for some years now.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 8 months ago
dsjpk5
Pizza002013FollowerofChrist1955Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.