The Instigator
tyson
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
ChickenBakuba
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Does the Christian God exist?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
tyson
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/10/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 581 times Debate No: 77525
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

tyson

Con

Hello. I will be arguing that the Christian God does not exist. First and foremost, I would like this debate to be friendly; no teasing, name-calling, insulting, etc. I would also like to say that if someone would accept my debate, please say, "I accept." After my opponent says this, I'd like them to go straight into their arguments.

Also, please keep your arguments organized so that I do not get confused. Thank you.
ChickenBakuba

Pro

I accept. I would've composed countless poems about insulting my opponent, tbh (to be honest), but I decided against it.

I shall now put my argument forward...

1. Population of Christians that make up the world
The percentage of Christians that are in the world currently is a staggering 31.50%, with United States made out of 83%. This surely proves something about our Religion.

Source(s):
https://en.wikipedia.org...

2. Many Religions are related to us
Islam (Muslim, I think) is also partially about the Bible, except that we Christians don't go around shooting people and taking over the world. Most of all, we Christians do not worship a piece of rock. The Jewish Religion is also related to us, just that in their Bible, they do not have the New Testaments. We believe that Jesus is Christ, the Jews believe that he was a prophet or a really good teacher.

3. The Universe is ultimately, definitely created by a Creator
Science proves that from the tiniest and smallest DNA Strand, to the the biggest animals, that *there is a definite Creator/Designer in this Universe(s)*.

3.(a) A unique measurement shows that a single Golden Ratio is one with nature. From Beautiful (from human perspective) and Human Measurement, it is even related to Music and Plants. This should prove something.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

3.(b) Now that I've shown that there is an ultimate Designer in this Universe, I shall show WHICH one.

Solomon's Temple. Solomon's Temple is a real place on Earth, visited by Jews and Christians, considered Holy. (I'm not sure if it's there anymore, actually, I heard it was demolished or some sh1t)

Solomon was from the Bible. Bible is the Word of God. Moreover, there are many other measurements, parts, of nature and us that proves that a Creator is at work. Not just PHI/1.618. Aristotle and other archaic mathematicians thought that God was a perfect Architect that used special Dimensions to build the universe. Then again, proves something?

4.(a) Evolution, Big Bang, Abiogenesis, Big Bang, and all others are lies

I have noted that most Atheists use Big Bang, Evolution, Abiogenesis and other more theories as their argument about how God isn't real. Rebuttals:

Men did *NOT* evolve from Apes. This is merely a lie/fallacy that Atheists as a "logical" reason of how we were created.

Source:
https://www.google.com.sg...

4.(b) Abiogenesis

Abiogenesis is just like Evolution. Again, a lie, fallacy, and a mistaken theory. It is unfalsifiable, as Scientists are unable to prove it.

Link:
http://radaractive.blogspot.sg...
http://www.talkorigins.org...
http://realtruth.org...

4.(c) Finally, the Big Bang (The dreaded moment for me)

Big Bang theory is false, and again, wrong.

Evidence:
http://www.iflscience.com...
http://www.dailydot.com...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
http://www.zmescience.com...
http://phys.org...

Sure, I have read theories about Big Bang, but some of the theories contradict each other.

Indeed, the Big Bang has passed most tests with flying colours, but it has failed some, and has yet to pass more.

Even then, the explanation of the first universe and the other universes has yet to be explained.

5. No sign of extraterrestrial life
There have been no discover of extraterrestrial life so far, and there are many mysteries even we haven't discovered yet.
No sign of extraterrestrial life means that humans did not come from other planets and evolve.

6. Bible does not contradict itself
Many Atheists claim that the Bible contradicts itself, and point out many things about the Bible which is false. I am merely saying that the Bible is correct, and that the contradictions assumed by people are wrong. Should you want to Debate this topic further, *bring it on*. I have an entire armoury & arsenal waiting, from another argument with another person. It was about Theological Fatalism. Took me fking long to rebut it, but was worth. He forfeited. Remember, an entire arsenal of rebuttals and an armoury of weapons that can pierce and that are sharp. >:)

Note that the Bible is quite amazing by itself, it supposedly contradicts itself, but within the lines of the Bible, concealed meanings lie... :P

That was a warning in case you posted some stuff about this topic... ;)

7. God does not Sin in any way
Once again, if you wish to Debate and bring this topic further, I am waiting. My argument, in case that you state that God is wrong and that he Sins, is waiting and ready. God can do anything, as long as it isn't contradictory to his nature. (Sinning) God always has a plan.

I guess is this about the end of my argument. Whilst I am not so sure about a Win from this Debate, I can assure you that my blades are ready and waiting.*

*A quote, just in case you take it literally. Some people are pure stupid (not that you are, just taking precautions).

If you are able to change the max amount of characters allowed in this Debate, please do so. I tend to write long Debates, and with the risk of Theological Fatalism being brought up, I do not want to take any chances. I have about 4.5k characters left, which is sort of risky, considering the length of counters, counter counters that this topic can bring up. Especially the fact that this Debate doesn't really have a proper premise. It is a wide topic. If you had reduced it to something like "There is a designer in this universe)" Or something else like that, it would've considerably reduced the amount of topics.

Vote Pro!
Debate Round No. 1
tyson

Con

I have acknowledged that my opponent has accepted the debate. I will now examine my opponent's arguments.

1. Population of Christians that make up the world
Yes, Christians may make up 31.50% of the United States, this does not mean that it is proven true. The majority isn't always right. The majority of scientists thought that the Earth was geocentric(center of the universe). But now, in the 21st Century, we know this is false. There is no center of the universe. In the 1700s, the majority of people thought that slavery was morally okay, but of course, this is false. Just because the majority agrees on one worldview doesn't mean it is true.

2. Many Religions are related to us
Yes, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all relate to each other. They are Judeo religions.
"...except that we Christians don't go around shooting people and taking over the world." There are countless atrocities caused by people who follow the Christian religion: the Holocaust, Trail of Tears, Salem Witch Trials, the acts of slavery, etc. There are many extremist groups of Christians. Such as the KKK(Ku Klux Klan). These are all horrific acts by Christians. Christianity is not sunflowers and rainbows. It is just as deadly as many other world religions out there.

3. The Universe is ultimately, definitely created by a Creator
Science doesn't prove that there is a Creator. There is no order in the universe, yet alone any Intelligent Design on this planet. Imagine if you were a dinosaur 65 million years ago. You'd think that there is order, but then you see that huge asteroid hurdling in to wipe you out. There is absolutely no order.

There is no Intelligent Design. If there is, then why are thousands of children are born with birth defects?

3.(a) Music, plants, or anything else in nature does not prove there is a god. Music proves that music exists. Plants prove that plants exists. Music was made by humans, not god. The diversity of plants are here because of Evolution, not because "God did it."

3.(b) Solomon's Temple may be a real place on Earth. So is the Temple of Jupiter. So is New York. Does the Temple of Jupiter prove that Jupiter/Zeus exists? Does New York prove that Spider-Man exists? No. You can use real life places as a setting for fiction.

4.(a) Evolution, Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and all others are lies

I cannot simply take your word that atheists use the Big Bang, Evolution, Abiogenesis and other scientific theories to disprove god. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god(s). It has no correlation to any of these things. You are misrepresenting the meaning of atheism.

You are correct. Men did not evolve from apes. Humans just went down a different evolutionary line, such as other primates.

4(b). I am not knowledgeable on this topic.

4.(c) The Big Bang

We have overwhelming evidence of the Big Bang.

Cosmic Background Radiation(CBR)
This stuff is all over the universe. Science has traced this energy back to a single point. This is the singularity of the Big Bang.

Redshift of the Galaxies
Scientists have noticed that the galaxies are moving from each other. This would imply that they all must have been somewhere in a single point: the singularity of the Big Bang.

http://www.schoolsobservatory.org.uk...

It is called the Big Bang theory. A theory in science means that is a well-substantiated claim that has been proven with an overwhelming number of evidences. A theory in science is a fact. Some people think that a theory becomes a law in science. In actuality, a theory is stronger than a law. Gravity is a theory, cells are a theory, even the germ is just a theory.

5. No sign of extraterrestrial life
No atheist has claimed that humans came from another planet. And no, we haven't discovered extraterrestrial life, but the universe is big. Really big. There are billions of planets out there, so wouldn't that make it kind of hard to find it?

6. Bible does not contradict itself
Yes it does. It has hundreds of times. Here is a list of contradictions of the Bible.

http://infidels.org...

7. God does not Sin in any way
"Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13 KJV) But God has killed millions of people throughout the Bible, so he has sinned. But of course, he is the Supreme Being, so he is excused. Wouldn't that make him hypocritical?

If God has a plan, then why do anything? Why pray? Why worry about anything if God has his grand plan? Why pray, just so you can get your way when he already has his way.
ChickenBakuba

Pro

1. Majority isn't always right, that I agree, but most of the time it is. Majority agreeing on something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. But that's basically saying something like:

"Everyone knows the Earth is round. But because majority isn't always true, I believe the Earth is flat."

2. I can't say that we Christians are totally pure and all, and I can't say that Christianity is all sunflowers and rainbows. But you have to admit that Christians (modern) are one of the most peaceful Religions in the World. Most - most - Religions related to us are peaceful, like the Jews. I can't say anything about Islam though. 0_o

Note that Jews and Christians are one of the top most peaceful Religions in history. I disown Islam, that Religion went wrong somewhere.

So in a way, we are Sunflowers and Rainbows :)

P.S. We are roses too :)


3. There are intelligent designs. Specific measurements and more prove that.

As you said, imagine you were a dinosaur 65 million years ago. You would be part of the food chain, being devoured and devouring, striving to survive. The food chain itself is order. Dinosaurs did not necessarily die from a huge asteroid, and the Earth isn't very old. There isn't much order, considering we spoiled the order.*

There is indeed intelligent design. Thousands of Children are born with birth defects, but billions are born without birth defects. Some are even talented and gifted, and some have the time to debate on DDO. Since this Debate is about the Christian God, I shall relate to the Christian God in the Bible.*God is not to blame for these birth defects, he created a perfect, idyllic, flawless world for humans. But no, we had to Sin, and allow 2 types of Evil in this world.

1. Moral Evil: Self Explanatory

2. Natural Evil: Catastrophe, Disasters, Earthquakes, Tsunamis.

We are the reason that there is no order, and that there are birth defects and other sh1t.

3. (a) "Music, plants, or anything else in nature does not prove there is a god. Music proves that music exists. Plants prove that plants exists. Music was made by humans, not god. The diversity of plants are here because of Evolution, not because "God did it.""

Is it too much of a coincidence, if a certain measurement measures beauty (human perspective), the human body (Leonardo Da Vinci), Music beauty (human perspective, again), and other more things, like nature?

You don't just ignore something, especially if it's too coincidental to be true. If you pray for 100 bucks, and you receive a 100 bucks instantly, would you think God is true? While you might say this example is extreme, it is hardly extreme in this context. Con is saying that this Ratio, related Mathematically, related to Aesthetics. Architecture, Painting, Book designs, even the way Humans perceive Music, and even Nature. (Plants) You don't say something is coincidental, especially when it's too coincidental.

3. (b) "Solomon's Temple may be a real place on Earth. So is the Temple of Jupiter. So is New York. Does the Temple of Jupiter prove that Jupiter/Zeus exists? Does New York prove that Spider-Man exists? No. You can use real life places as a setting for fiction."

This is indeed truism. However, Solomon's Temple was stated in the Bible, and specifically too. This proves that the Bible wasn't exactly sprouting nonsensical gibbering rubbish.

4.(a)Man and Apes Have a Separate Ancestry

I guess I am misrepresenting the meaning of Atheism. I apologise for insulting your...belief. Is Atheism a belief? Oh well. Let's get back to the topic :P

Humans did not evolve from other Primates. We do not even share a common ancestory. The link is partially wrong.

Link:
http://www.icr.org...

"Although highly imaginative "transitional forms" between man and ape-like creatures have been constructed by evolutionists based on very fragmentary evidence, the fossil record actually documents the separate origin of primates in general,11 monkeys,12 apes,13 and men."

It is also stated that no fossils show the evolution of Apes to Men.


Another interesting fact that proves Darwinian Theory wrong is that modern 21st century Science proves that evolution cannot take place in body parts.

4.(b) Very well, let's not Debate this topic. I'm not exactly that knowledgable in Abiogenesis.

4.(c) NOOOOOOOOOO. Ever hate this topic?

You nailed it. The dread, oh the dread. You hit right on spot. Guys, he's using Aimbot, I tell you...

Then again, this is the main topic that Atheists use to rebut the main existence of God. I expected it, but my rebuttals aren't that strong.

No sh1t you can't take my word. I couldn't even take my own word properly. Sad thing is, I don't know much about Big Bang. Time to research. Yay. :(

Even if the Big Bang did happen, what happened before that is actually more important. But Quantum Physics dictate that the Big Bang is false.

Quantum Theory dictates that Big Bang is false. I have already mentioned this in my last argument. Quantum theory states that the Big Bang never happened.

Search it up yourself, or:
http://www.icr.org...

The dreaded moment, the chink in my armour. (and my armour, ironically isn't that strong)

5. Eh, if no Atheist has claimed that, then screw this topic. I have, although, heard some Atheists talk about UFOs and Aliens populating this planet. Oh well, Bye.

6. Ah, ok.

Could you please select a few? I don't have time to rebut them all, although I think I can. I'll rebut the first 5 then.

(a). God is the arbiter and adjudicator of all men, he is good to all, and bad to all. He kills, he ressurects. He makes the rich, he creates the poor. He loves, he hates. He creates war, and he creates peace. He is neither against both. He creates the Angels, he makes the Fallens.

(b). Jacob is the father of Joseph?

(c). According to Mark, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome find that the tomb has been opened.

(d). Jesus is lesser than God. He is indeed "one" with his father, just like how the Godhead is made out of: Father, Spirit, Son. The word "one" is used in a different context. One as in connected, connected as in able to speak to his father, and communicate to him.
(e). God created beast first, I think. Search the internet.

7. God is, as I said the ultimate supreme being, so he is excused. The definition of Sin itself does not apply to him, just as how the laws of physics do not. God is (I hate saying this continuously) the ultimate arbiter, adjudicator and judge of mankind. He has not in any point of time sinned, and he cannot. He can do anything, but he cannot do anything contrary to his nature. (E.g. Sinning)

8. This is somewhat related to Theological Fatalism. God has a great plan, but his main problem is us. With us having free will and abusing it, he can't really do anything, considering it would be contradictory to his nature if he threatens us or something. Our free will controls the future. God does not really control the future that much, and he can't really change it. His plan might not be completely "grand" in a way, particulary because of us getting in the way with our abuse of free will. We create the future.

9. I lose. This is the first time I seriously thought I was going to lose, before the Debate was even over.
Debate Round No. 2
tyson

Con

1. Science bases things on evidence, not faith. That is what religion uses: faith. So many people believe in religion because they are indoctrinated into it. When you are a child, you're parents are a trustworthy and authoritative figure, so you will believe everything they tell. Even if it is batshit crazy.

2. Christianity is not the most peaceful religion. A CHRISTIAN caused one of the most horrific massacres of all time. No religion is peaceful. Religion causes wars, death, sickness, etc.

3. a.) "The food chain itself is order." Then tell me why there is a scarce food source in countries of Africa?
b.) "Dinosaurs did not necessarily die from a huge asteroid..." We have actual evidence. http://www.livescience.com...
c.) "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) It seems someone didn't read their Bible.
d.) You see, this is the problem with the Christian religion. It makes you seem like when you are born, you are a fallen sinner. Later on, it creates a loophole for these sins, and as long you repent, you can do whatever you want.

3. (a) "Extreme" coincidences don't prove there's a god. These things happen all the time. It's completely natural. Let me ask you, if there were no coincidences in the world, would that prove that God doesn't exist?

3. (b) Indeed. Little parts of the Bible have history. But the gibberish it spits completely outweighs the facts it tells.

4. (a) Atheism is not a belief. We have a lack of belief. Disbelief is a belief. We lack both. We take the default position and base everything on reality.

"Although highly imaginative "transitional forms" between man and ape-like creatures have been constructed by evolutionists based on very fragmentary evidence, the fossil record actually documents the separate origin of primates in general,11 monkeys,12 apes,13 and men."

"It is also stated that no fossils show the evolution of Apes to Men."

WE DID NOT COME FROM APES! Humans are a type of primate that we down a differently evoultionary line. The problem with creationism is that they base it off a book, which makes no sense at all whatsoever, then provides "evidence" that it is true.

Creation Science is a pseudoscience. It is based of a few men's claims who didn't even know where rain came from or where the sun went at night.

"Another interesting fact that proves Darwinian Theory wrong is that modern 21st century Science proves that evolution cannot take place in body parts."

It doesn't take place in the body parts. It takes place in the genes. It is mutation.

5. Quantum theory, mechanics, equation, only suggests a possibility. Again, we have overwhelming evidence of the Big Bang. We can't just throw everything away.

6. "I lose. This is the first time I seriously thought I was going to lose, before the Debate was even over." Are you serious?
ChickenBakuba

Pro

ChickenBakuba forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
tyson

Con

tyson forfeited this round.
ChickenBakuba

Pro

ChickenBakuba forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by JR-CreativeGenius 1 year ago
JR-CreativeGenius
Tyson you did a great job in this
Posted by tyson 1 year ago
tyson
I would also like viewers to NOT debunk either side of the debate until it is over.
Posted by tyson 1 year ago
tyson
I have placed my refutes and await for my opponent to post. (too easy)
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Save the debunking in the comments until the debate is over.
Posted by ChickenBakuba 1 year ago
ChickenBakuba
Shut up Santa heretic, this is a Debate between me and my opponent. It has nothing to do with you
Posted by JR-CreativeGenius 1 year ago
JR-CreativeGenius
I will be watching this and in the comments I will write why Santa is more believable than God.
Posted by ChickenBakuba 1 year ago
ChickenBakuba
Shh, don't reveal it :P
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Wow I wish I was debating on the side of Con... Pro's arguments seem so easy to refute....
Posted by ChickenBakuba 1 year ago
ChickenBakuba
I <3 poems

Never had I thought I was so good at insulting people at poetry
Posted by ChickenBakuba 1 year ago
ChickenBakuba
From what I can see from your Debates, I can see you are extremely against God.

I better keep my guard up
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
tysonChickenBakubaTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, as Pro forfeited more rounds than Con.
Vote Placed by Plexon_Warrior 1 year ago
Plexon_Warrior
tysonChickenBakubaTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Even though I am a Christian, the pro did not make a very convincing argument (at first it got better as the argument progressed.) as it was weak and full of holes.