The Instigator
tala00131
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
kjames
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Does the Christian God exist?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
kjames
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/9/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,254 times Debate No: 36510
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (21)
Votes (3)

 

tala00131

Con

Rules
Round one is for acceptance only. Round two is for opening arguments, round three is for rebuttals, round four is for closing statements. Good luck.
kjames

Pro

Does the Christian GOD exist is a question often pondered by many people globally. In this debate I will not attempt to convert you to my religion which is Christianity. I only attempt to provide you with rational ideas so that you may weigh this information given rather subjectively. When you think of religion what religion comes to mind? What other religion boasts of a man returning from death? Mormonism? Islam? Buddhism? Yes Christianity is the only religion that makes such a claim. Now keeping in mind that this is not a debate about "Does GOD exist ". There is historical proof that Jesus did actually live, he is the only man in history that made these claims of being more than a normal man. Now the Bible is the best selling book of all time written over 100's of years by many different authors. WOW a book that actually help establish the foundations of morality in this country. Ok look at it his way, there are indeed 1000"s of religions but only 1 where the pioneer of said religion is still known to be alive by true believers. Only 1 with a book as popular as the Bible! Why is that, is this by chance? Could this just be all some elaborately planned myth or Hoax? We know that there is proof that Jesus actually lived, what was he doing here? Even a better question is why is he so popular? Why do people say he is GOD and serve him if he is just a man? I mean he had to be more than just some guy to withstand the test of time right? I mean if I was a NBA player but I was a flat out scrub, wouldn't people quickly just forget about me? Doesn't it seem plausible that there is more to the Jesus phenomenon than meets the eye. I often hear, people say " How can we believe in the BIble when it was written by imperfect men even though it is said to be the word of a perfect GOD, and the question I pose to them would be, "Aren't we talking about GOD?' Couldn't GOD make an ANT write a book if he chose to? I mean did you ever see the movie Bruce Almighty, LOL. It says in Luke 1:37 "nothing is impossible for GOD. Now keeping in mind that being part of any religion is based on faith, however one would have to agree that their is no other religion with more intrigue and controversy than Christianity, why is that?
Debate Round No. 1
tala00131

Con

My opponent did not follow the rules, round one is for acceptance only. However, I will give my arguments now. In this round; I will give a case against the existence of God, and a case against the existence of Jesus. I will respond to my opponent's previous argument in round three.

The case against God:

I have broken down my arguments into four major arguments. Number one: Improbability, number two: Stupid design, number three: Problem of evil, number four: Free will.
Improbability: Not only is there no evidence that any God exists, it is extremely improbable. If you think about it, a being so complex as a God who can; fine tune the universe, perform miracles has to be more complex than us. There for, his existence would be very improbable.
Stupid Design: There are many things in the universe which would kill life instantly. Such as: supernovas, radiation, asteroids. Most planet orbits are unstable, star formation is inefficient, most spots in the universe would kill life instantly (either too hot or too cold). There are over 3000 genetic disease in the human genome, our eye has a blind spot. This is just all stupid design.
Problem of evil: One child dies every four seconds, 21,000 children dies each day in Africa, most people in Africa die of childbirth, 14 children die every minute. Either God allows suffering (which implies he doesn't care) or he can't (which implies he's not all powerful) or he doesn't exist.
Free will: How can God have free will? If he is all knowing, then he knows the future. If he knows the future he can't change his mind, which means he has no free will. People say God is all just and all merciful. How can this be? Justice is punishing the crime as it should be, mercy is giving a punishment less savior then the crime. So one can't be merciful and just.

The case against Jesus:

If you look at the early civilizations such as: Egypt, and Greece. What you find is that there were many mythological figures before Jesus that had similar stories. Horus for example, was born of a virgin, preformed miracle's, was referred to as he way, the truth and the light, was crucified, resurrected after three days. This is only one of the hundreds of mythical figures that came before Jesus that had the same stories as him. This just shows that Jesus was not original, he was copied.

We have seen a good case against God, and a good case against Jesus. Given the evidence, these arguments leads us to think that the God of Christianity doesn't exist.
kjames

Pro

Yes I do apologize for my lack of understanding of the rules of this site this is my first time. I will not break my arguments into categories, however I will cover all of my opponents topics.

Now, none of your arguments seem to make a case that the Christian God doesn't exist. Actually your case somewhat makes mine. Let me explain. You said that there were many mythological characters before Jesus and that Jesus was just a copy.
oh really, well isn't it ironic that these mythological characters that you speak of have never left that particular realm "MYTHOLOGY"/ FAIRY TALES" While Jesus is worshiped and looked upon as a real entity, why Jesus? why not Zeus? Jesus followers actually lost there lives for what they believed so there is definitely much more to this ideology than you portray.
You say that their is no evidence that GOD exists, but what you really mean is "there is no scientific evidence that GOD exists."
Let me ask you, do you have any evidence that love exists? What about pain? I would think you would say yes because we can see the results of love and pain, but I can argue that we can see the results of GOD. See GOD exists outside of the realm of science. Just because you have no evidence of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are many species of fish in the ocean that we haven't found yet does this mean they don't exist?

(This is your quote) -Stupid Design: There are many things in the universe which would kill life instantly. Such as: supernovas, radiation, asteroids. Most planet orbits are unstable, star formation is inefficient, most spots in the universe would kill life instantly (either too hot or too cold). There are over 3000 genetic disease in the human genome, our eye has a blind spot. This is just all stupid design.

Once again this just makes my case. Yes there are many things that could kill life instantly, well how come it doesn't? You say that this is all just a stupid design. If I bring you a keyboard and a mouse and a couple of cords and a empty cardboard box and I ask you to try and log onto the Internet, you would probably laugh me out of town, because that would be a stupid design.. Life is full of vast complexities that far surpass the smartest human mind. So if this computer I am using has some malfunctions it doesn't mean it's stupid, it means it's not perfect. GOD made everything perfect, but now we are living in a fallen universe this is why there is death and suffering.

( Your Argument)Free will: How can God have free will? If he is all knowing, then he knows the future. If he knows the future he can't change his mind, which means he has no free will. People say God is all just and all merciful. How can this be? Justice is punishing the crime as it should be, mercy is giving a punishment less savior then the crime. So one can't be merciful and just.

I totally don't understand this logic I have children and just because I may know what they are going to do doesn't take away free will. GOD is merciful and just we just don't understand his tactics, remember we only use 10% of our brains. Once you are close to GOD what you thought you knew about him changes.
Yes we all die and if there were no death wouldn't that be like heaven, this is what GOD says Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
Debate Round No. 2
tala00131

Con

My opponent claims that Jesus had real followers, and that Zeus doesn't. This may be true today, however. You can't even be sure that Jesus did have real followers; there were stories that were written by the so called Indian God Krisner who had the same stories of Jesus. My opponent is getting his information out of a 3000 year old book; written by a bunch of sheep headers who didn't even know the earth goes around the sun! My opponent did not give a response to the problem of evil, or improbability. As for his argument against stupid design. Yes, nothing has killed our species yet, but. 99.9% of all species to ever live went extinct. This is stupid design, and what about the 3000 genetic daises in the human genome? The fact that our eye has a blind spot is just stupid design. The point of the free will argument is that God can't change is own mind. He is all knowing so he knows what he is going to do, so he can't change his mind.
kjames

Pro

You said that we can't be sure that the disciples may not existed which is not accurate at all, there is much historical evidence of this. This same 3000 Y/O book that you speak of actually said that the earth was round thousands of years ago in Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth". As far as the concept of free will your point of view is simplistic and lacks the in depth ingredients to even come to a conceivable truth. If you think that this is just a stupid design, how do we make sense out of anything in this universe. Why is our society so structured where we have laws, rules etc. So your telling me that we are more intelligent than the universe? You believe that we were made from nothing millions of years ago which is like putting together pieces of a puzzle with non existent pieces, but we live in a reality where everything has to be created by someone or something, but you choose not to believe this why? You too believe in GOD, it is not a question of belief it is a question of accountability. (scripture) "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Also I did give a response for evil in the world it is because of the fall, which is what all Christians accept. The blind spot which you speak of has no relevance at all, because this is not a perfect world this is why we die. Again just because something is flawed does this mean it has a stupid design this is a erroneous argument.
Debate Round No. 3
tala00131

Con

tala00131 forfeited this round.
kjames

Pro

no comments from his side?
Debate Round No. 4
21 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
A very fine question. In fact, I challenged him to a debate about it. I guess he isn't taking his loss well. Check it out. It's quite a laugh.
Posted by GarthVader 3 years ago
GarthVader
Devient - Why is your religion so hostile towards OZ's?
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
Oh, then I guess were on the same page then. I do follow True Scripture. It's called the Bible. Maybe you should actually read it before you exaggerate about things that are just flat out incorrect.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
OZ, lets see if I have this straight. Your profile says you are christian. christians believe the bible is the word of god. So if the bible is the word of god, that means you think the universe was created by a petty bully who wants people killed for working on the wrong day of the week.

You worship a cruel unjust killer as the reason for the beautiful universe. Wow, you sound like a real thinker :)

You should really embrace True Scripture :)

LOVE 6:9--Proof that god loves you so much, he let you in on the possibility of eternal torment, just in case you forget, and dont love him back. Thats what friends are for :)

Religitards 10:2--So my dad told them, "Guys come on, seriously, dont eat that" First thing that (b)(i)(t)(c)(h) does is eat it, so yeah, thats why Im here--jesus :)

Truth 2:1--We need science, we dont need religion. If you dont believe me, when youre choking would you rather I ran over bent down and prayed, or used the scientific advancement called the Heimlich maneuver? Which would be more of a loss for mankind, all the religious books or all the science books? Which is more important to mankind? Liars say religion, and liars practice religion :)

IDIOTS 6:13--Allegories, parables, opinions, apologies, metaphors, interpretations and excuses, these are the ingredients of the religious mind :)

Inept 5:55--Logic, reason, evidence, critical thinking and facts are religions natural enemies :)
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
Also, Garth Vader, well said.
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
Didn't I already hand your @$$ to ya in a debate? Yeah, I did, I challenged you and you lost. Cry me a river pal. If that is an ultimatum, then I guess were in for a wild ride. I would agree with you, but too bad God isn't a machine. And seriously, has anyone noticed this guys baseball analogies? Seriously, what's up with Baseball man? Did you try out for little league and they thought you sucked or something? Also for the other people in the comment section, sorry I had to spank this kid in front of you.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
OZ, theres no crying in baseball, you know that already, Now walk it off :)

I'll make a deal with ya. If you admit that worshiping a killing machine is disturbing and I will stop making fun of you :)

Until then, please remain seated until ride comes to a complete stop :)

Lets spice things up with some True Scripture :)

CryBabies 2:37--Widdle kids will whine "Well science cant answer questions like "What is our purpose as humans on Earth?", that is correct, and Wal-Mart cannot answer those questions for you either, so go pout and stomp your feet that nobody will answer your questions and nobody will help you go potty and wipe your butt for you. Put on your big kid pants and figure out your own purpose and legacy :)

Idiots 5:7--The bible said it, I believe it, that settles it :)
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
Alright, i'm gonna offer some friendly advice pal, since your such a funny guy. Just ranting about it isn't gonna solve anything. At least try to give serious analysis and maybe people will stop laughing at your monologue poems that look like they belong to a crackhead Disney villain.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
OZ, is that the best you got? Now get up, I ain't heard no bell!

You wholeheartedly believe the billions of galaxies were created by a sky daddy who was into scatology, well played christian nation, well played :)

malachi 2:2-3

2 If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name," says the lord almighty, "I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.

3 "Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it.

Your Love in Poop,

The Morality Master
Posted by O.Z 3 years ago
O.Z
...Did Bill Maher put you up to this? I think he did. Yeah, he totally did.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
tala00131kjamesTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con F.F. thereby leaving many of pro's points uncountered,.
Vote Placed by gordonjames 3 years ago
gordonjames
tala00131kjamesTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to PRO for CON's FF. Arguments to PRO (FF and better flow)
Vote Placed by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
tala00131kjamesTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: con had pretty strong arguments but his last round forfeit left many of pro's points uncountered, so arguments remian a tie. Conduct does go to the pro though since con forfeited the final round