The Instigator
rc2123
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
vardas0antras
Con (against)
Winning
26 Points

Does the Christian God truly exist?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/23/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,752 times Debate No: 14123
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (6)

 

rc2123

Pro

First, I recognize that this is a very sensitive topic, but since I wish to see the views of the opposing side, I would like to start this debate. For some personal info I am a high school student in South Korea, so my English composition might be a bit weak and I was born a Methodist but now I hold some Presbyterian views. Also, this is the first time I'm using this site!

The Christian belief has its roots from Judaism. This first monotheistic religion started thousands of years ago when Abram, a upper-middle class man from the Sumerian city of Ur, stated that he was the servant of God and therefore changed his name to Abraham. Seeing that the belief of this particular omnipotent, omniscient being has lasted for almost over 5,000 years, we must acknowledge that there is something special about this God.

However, people say that this God is contradictory throughout the bible, especially the difference of his characteristics and personalities (if we can say if it is "person"aliites) between the God in the Old and New Testaments. However, the difference and the so called "contradictions" come from the lack of knowledge about the scriptures. When read carefully, the different situation shows the different reactions from God.

There have been many misunderstandings throughout history relating to the belief of which is the "True God." But these misunderstandings are coming to a minimum these days and that Christians all over the world are uniting under the one God.

I would like to write more but not knowing what the opposition would say, I would like to save my arguments for the next two rounds
vardas0antras

Con

Welcome to DDO (debate dot org) and I hope you'll have as much fun as I have ! Personally I am a Christian but I see nothing wrong with taking a side with which I don't agree. As for your English, don't worry, as long as its readable and everyone knows your disadvantage, you should get a tie.

O My opponents arguments
o "Seeing that the belief of this particular omnipotent, omniscient being has lasted for almost over 5,000 years, we must acknowledge that there is something special about this God."
The Abrahamic religions are widespread, I admit. However polytheism was widespread before the Abrahamic religions and it seems that via science and modernization Atheism, Agnosticsm and Buddhism is becoming popular. The next big thing.
http://www.positiveatheism.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

My opponent provides no further arguments.

O My arguments
o My opponent has the burden of proof, a heavy one may I add.
o Which God ?
There are many Gods (though I only know few) which God should I choose? Allah, Zeus, Yahweh are all just as probable.
o Not enough evidence
I don't accept God to show up in the sky and wave his arm but I do expect many valid arguments and scientific discoveries. The reality is different ; evolution and the big bang suggest an atheistic universe. God seems to be hiding.

Anyhow lets have fun,
M
Debate Round No. 1
rc2123

Pro

The Opposition side said that I have a heavy burden of truth... I must admit that there is a great deal of difficulty in proving the existence of God. However, for one thing, there are numerous evidence that there the existence of the Hebrew God, who is the Christian God as well, (Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, God, etc.) has affected the human history. Some may say that it's only coincidence or that it is not the Christian God who helped the Hebrews; the evidence that these claims are false is striking.

To start proving the existence of god we need to use science, because science is the most "accurate" way that people believe in. The opposition side used science "theories" to prove their side as well: the Big Bang and the Evolution theory. Although how plausible it may seem, these are just theories. Especially the evolution theory. The evolution theory originates from the statement that the fittest survives and therefore the animals and other living beings strive to become the fittest. However, there is no example of link between a before and after being that has changed so drastically that it has "evolved."

First, there have been many doubts and questioning about the Great Flood and Noah's Arc. Although many ancient text and scriptures suggest that there has been a Great Flood and there was a ship with all animals in pairs, there are still people who do not believe that this is true. Let us think logically here for a second. If the story and the myth were true, there will be only one family left from this travesty: Noah's. Therefore all of his descendents will remember him. However, there was an incident when the Lord punished those who started to construct the Babel tower. The language was differentiated. But we must assume that the meaning of the names and the events would not have changed drastically, although as time passed it might have been altered a bit. To prove this we must analyze Noah's name. His name means peace and long living. Let us check the second most famous flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Utnapishtim was the flood survivor. As you can predict his name means long of life: Long Living. These remarkable evidence shows that a supernatural being had told the family of 8 to make a boat and save the human and animal races. The ship and 8 is something that has to be speculated carefully. In Chinese the character for ship is 船. Inside this character there are 3 more fundamental characters: 八, 口, and 舟. The first character means 8. The second character means mouth, there for we can say 8 mouths, or eight people. The last character means a raft or small boat. So, a big ship is, a boat with 8 people, like it is told in the bible.

Still this doesn't exactly prove that the God of Christians exists. Therefore this is my next point. Is to prove the so called mythical miracles mentioned in the Bible. In the Old Testament, there is a passage where Moses splits the Red Sea. People said that this is just bogus and all false. But surprisingly there is new scientific evidence that this could have happened. Carl Drews from the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Colorado stated that strong east winds of at least 63km/h on a certain body of water in the Red Sea could have made a land bridge. Mr. Carl Drew said, "The parting of the waters can be understood through fluid dynamics. The wind moves the water in a way that's in accordance with physical laws, creating a safe passage with water on two sides and then abruptly allowing the water to rush back in."

Also, there are other miracles such as the stopping of the sun and the falling of the wall of Jericho. Although I would love to explain more, there is a lack of space.... so please check these two sites. http://elmucho.wordpress.com... and http://www.squidoo.com...

But what we have to notice is that all these miracles occurred only to the Jewish people. It is very surprising throughout the history of mankind, supernatural events of great size occurred only to the Jewish people. However, after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, there are certain events of great porportion, that are often easily over looked, that occurred in Modern History. I would like to explain this in our final round. This is also known as the shift of World Power is going to the East.
vardas0antras

Con

My opponent admits that he has a heavy burden of proof. Now lets begin.

O Opponents Arguments

o You mentioned "there are numerous evidence that there the existence of the Hebrew God, who is the Christian God as well, (Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, God, etc.)". However I would argue that the evidence is either to invalid or to vague to be considered. What evidence ? My opponent has yet to provide.

o Evolution
No, evolution is a fact:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Not believing in evolution or at least partly in evolution is like not believing in gravity:
http://sparrowscience.com...

o Noah's flood
1. Provide links.
2. Are you using a myths as evidence ?

o Old Testament miracles
1. I'd like a verification from a secular website or via secular websites
2. Hypothetically, these things happened via science, what does science have to do with God ?

o Jewish People
"But what we have to notice is that all these miracles occurred only to the Jewish people."
Incorrect, every region, country, town and religion has its own stories of miracles.

O My arguments

o Not enough evidence
Why should I believe in Yahweh ? Lets assume that all you said is true, so what ? What is more believable, the great amount of miracles in the past or Gods hiding in modern times ? I live in modern times and I can be sure of the latter while the past is and always will be iffy.
Debate Round No. 2
rc2123

Pro

To begin with, Merry Christmas!
Isn't it ironic that this is a national holiday and people like to celebrate it when it's the very thing that they are condemning?
Anyways Let's begin our last round.

Evolution is not a fact. In science, theory is "a formal set of ideas that is intend to explain why something happens or exists." (Oxford dictionary) When a theory or an idea is accepted, its name changes to law or theorem. We can see this in Newton's three laws. (Although some are not true in the world we live in, scientists agreed that it'd be true in a place with no air and defined as laws.) Also, Wikipedia is a place where people write their own explanations; therefore, it can not be fully trusted. Why else would schools restrict students from citing their works with information from Wikipedia? Therefore, we have to agree that the evolution theory is not a fact.

As for the myths such as Noah's Ark as a means in trying to prove that the Christian God exists. Since it is very difficult to persuade people with just the bible, I was trying to linking with the "science" that most people have come to accept.

Now as I have mentioned in the previous round, there is proof that God is still alive in modern times. People ask, "if God really does exist, why does he leave people to suffer and doesn't condemn evil?" This will go into the theology of Christianity. However, to make long explanations short, God gave us free will to do anything we want. Why? The very reason why he created us, because he loves us and wanted us to praise him for all his doings. Why doesn't he punish the evil? He used to in the Old Testament; however, after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, he did not. The think about the modern world is that change is occurring drastically. People say that the "world power" is shifting constantly: starting from Europe and moving to Eastern Asia. Let us see this phenomenon in a different view. First, the World Power started to form in Europe during the 1600~1800s. When was this time? This was the time when Europe started to expand and unfortunately, started to make colonies. Also, this was the time when Christianity flourished throughout Europe and they were evangelizing other countries. What we do, including using God's name to do immoral deeds, is what we do; God doesn't touch that part in our world. Why? As mentioned before, he wants us to praise him with our own heart, without him forcing us too. But, back to Europe. The power of Europe, especially Germany, France, and England, were at the world's peak. Their influence was enormous. However, as time passed Christianity started to wane in Europe, and their power and immediate influence started to decrease as well. But, during this time Christianity was re-evangelizing through the second awakening. This was when the American Power was at its peak. However, starting from the 1990s, there was a great increase in Christianity in Eastern Asia, such as Hong Kong, China, Australia, and S. Korea. What is happening to these countries right now? They are having stronger influence over the world.

Although these arguments may seem weak, what did the opposition do? He only said, oh there is no evidence, more evidence please, but did he give any evidences? No. The only thing he tried to do was disprove my reasons without giving any of his own. The only other argument he gave was: Evolution is a fact, which is a statement that I believe, I have, debunked thoroughly.

Thank You for this debate, and have a Happy New Year
vardas0antras

Con

O Review

Evolution:
My opponent asserts that evolution is not a fact. My opponent attacks my source but he doesn't provide any sources himself ; something is better than nothing. Furthermore evolution is commonly considered a fact:
http://ftp.beitberl.ac.il...

Noah's Ark:
I asked for sources but I got nothing.

Noe Argument:
Argument like this ought to have sources. Assuming everything he said is true, how does this prove the Christian God ? I say that affluent nations in those times tended to spread religion so that they would always be rich via pleasing their God. While the poorer nations didn't have the time nor resources to do this. I am sure we all can agree that this is a much more plausible explanation.

My argument:
"The only other argument he gave was: Evolution is a fact, which is a statement that I believe, I have, debunked thoroughly." That is untrue.
"The only thing he tried to do was disprove my reasons without giving any of his own" Also untrue, as I stated in round one my opponent has a heavy burden of proof which he didn't fulfill.

Thank you, too !!!!!
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by gavin.ogden 6 years ago
gavin.ogden
Horrible argument. Like saying a millimeter exists, but not a centimeter. Get real...
Posted by rc2123 6 years ago
rc2123
To check if what we are having a disagreement is right, could you tell me what the evolutionary theory is saying?
Posted by warpedfx 6 years ago
warpedfx
Do you even know what evolution actually entails, and what the theory is actually postulating?
Posted by rc2123 6 years ago
rc2123
I would just like to add one info.. just as a side note.
Most scientists agree that Microevolution is true, which is living life forms adapting to a more fit state. But many question the plausibility of Macroevolution, which is animals turning into different animals due to consistant Microevolution.
During the debate, although I didn't used the words above, I was talking about Macroevolution
Posted by gavin.ogden 6 years ago
gavin.ogden
You were correct, sir.
Posted by warpedfx 6 years ago
warpedfx
I see some fundamental errors in the way rc2123 understands science... This should be an easy victory for Vardas I'd say.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by KelchUSMC 6 years ago
KelchUSMC
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by wiseovvl 6 years ago
wiseovvl
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by TAY1995 6 years ago
TAY1995
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by gavin.ogden 6 years ago
gavin.ogden
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Vote Placed by warpedfx 6 years ago
warpedfx
rc2123vardas0antrasTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07