The Instigator
DawsonBruno
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ApathyWalrus
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Does the Confederate flag show racism(Pro) or Heritage and History(Con) in America?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ApathyWalrus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2015 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 688 times Debate No: 73139
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

DawsonBruno

Con

Thank you for reading, and I hope you enjoy!
For round one, we will state our arguments.
For round two, we will ask questions.
I believe the Confederate flag shows Heritage and History. It is a part of the USA's past. People who have it on their shirts mostly have no idea of the history of the flag and mean nothing by it. States with it on their flags, they show it purely for the fact that it is heritage and history.
ApathyWalrus

Pro

Thank you for hosting this debate, I hope that I am able to provide you with a stimulating conversation.
Your argument is that the Confederate flag does not show racism, that the flag in fact displays cultural pride, presumably for, the antebellum south. As perception is always subjective I will simply argue that the reasons many display the flag are based on false assumptions and skewed history, and that the real messages associated with the flag are at most ones of hate and violence, and at least racial insensitivity and historical inaccuracy.
Debate Round No. 1
DawsonBruno

Con

DawsonBruno forfeited this round.
ApathyWalrus

Pro

A simple question is, If the messages that were meant to be conveyed from the use of the Confederate flag were family, states rights, or even a connection with nature (somethings I'm trying to think up that could possibly be identified by those using the Confederate flag) couldn't these ideas be expressed in a much more "specific" way? Like, how about a pro-nature bumper sticker, or a "don"t tread on me" flag, or even one of those silly father, mother, children silhouette things? My point is that there was ways to express your support for traditional southern values without invoking the stigma associated with the Confederate flag. Even if the stigma is misplaced, it is still widespread, so that the one showing the flag is more likely to garner wrong impressions than accurately convey the message of southern pride.

Also, what is the "heritage and history" that you claim many people wish to represent. I myself am a Georgian, but I still would not like to associate myself with the messages relating to the south. The pre-war south was a part of America like any other, but a part that was heavily based on slavery for its economy. Its culture, while not completely different from its northern counterpart, was more heavily influenced by race and a culture of normalized oppression. I am not claiming that the north was innocent of racism or even slavery, just that because the south was much more reliant on it the culture differed in its normalcy on the ideas of slavery. Many north eastern states were free states before the civil war. It just seems to me that there isn't a whole lot of positive history directly associated with the South.
Debate Round No. 2
DawsonBruno

Con

DawsonBruno forfeited this round.
ApathyWalrus

Pro

Since my opponent is seemingly absent from this debate I will post a simplistic version of my argument. (For this example I will be using the Confederate battle flag as it is the most popular example of the Confederate flag). As I said above the flag that many use to express "heritage and history"" is not even the right flag for it. The actual confederate flag was an offshoot of the American stars and stripes with their own stars and bars (thirteen stars and 3 colored bars), the flag most often displayed is the Confederate battle flag. A flag initially used the by North Virginian troops in the civil war and was soon adopted as the main battle flag by most secessionist states. The use of this flag directly references the South's fight against the North in the civil war, something that I think presents a pride in the fight against the north rather than a pride in the culture of the south. (Unless the culture of the south is the fight against the north?)

This usage of a flag directly associated with fighting against the North gives the impression that the person displaying the flag agrees with the South in regards to their reasoning in fighting the North. That would be the want of slavery. (On a side note the argument that the south was fighting for states rights could also be brought up but those states rights were simply being used to continue slavery.) Even if the message of states rights was properly being conveyed the negative implications of racism and southern oppression would outweigh any "positive" feelings towards that person's preferences towards state power.

Since my opponent has not presented any arguments for his point I encourage you to vote pro.
Debate Round No. 3
DawsonBruno

Con

DawsonBruno forfeited this round.
ApathyWalrus

Pro

Waive round
Debate Round No. 4
DawsonBruno

Con

DawsonBruno forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FuzzyCatPotato 1 year ago
FuzzyCatPotato
Godwin's Law, much?

Besides, imprisoning millions for centuries has to count for something, even if the people weren't directly slaughtered.
Posted by DawsonBruno 1 year ago
DawsonBruno
First round state it.
Second ask questions.
3rd Use your arguments.
4th Ask questions...
5th Final argument...
Posted by ApathyWalrus 1 year ago
ApathyWalrus
For the first round should I just post a short statement quickly stating my main arguments, the same as you? Is there a specific format that you want to strictly adhere too? I have full arguments ready to go, but I want to know when it will be appropriate to post them.
Posted by DawsonBruno 1 year ago
DawsonBruno
the Nazis were 5 times as ruthless. They killed 10M+ while around 2M slaves were killed during the Middle Passage.
Still, nazis have the freedom of speech and expression here. Same as everyone SHOULD have.
Posted by Kozu 1 year ago
Kozu
Why not have nazi flags and ignore the killing jews part?
Posted by DawsonBruno 1 year ago
DawsonBruno
http://people.hofstra.edu...
Here is the right one. LOL
Posted by Kozu 1 year ago
Kozu
What exactly is this "heritage and history" that these confederate flag fliers are so proud of.
Posted by DawsonBruno 1 year ago
DawsonBruno
#Stylin!
Posted by Kozu 1 year ago
Kozu
Or their wearing it because its "cool".
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by m4j0rkus4n4g1 1 year ago
m4j0rkus4n4g1
DawsonBrunoApathyWalrusTied
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Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture by Con cost him conduct. Of the arguments presented, not only were Pro's more numerous, but Pro's arguments followed logically and explained why the flag in question is not even necessarily the correct flag to display for southern pride. Con's only arguments are his opening statements, mostly assertions, and Pro counters each one. Pro shows how the flag in question does not represent the history and heritage of the south, or at least not in a peaceful way (as it is really a war flag). Con's only other argument is that those who wear confederate flag shirts do not do so to be racist, which seems largely anecdotal.