The Instigator
TheNextDaVinci
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
dawkinist
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Does the "Fine Tuning" of the universe suggest there being a creator?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
dawkinist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 335 times Debate No: 87262
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

TheNextDaVinci

Pro

The Fine tuning of the universe does supply evidence of there being a God, from galaxies and stars, down to atoms and subatomic particles, the very structure of our universe is determined by these numbers:
Speed of Light: c=299,792,458 m s-1
Gravitational Constant: G=6.673 x 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2
Planck's Constant: 1.05457148 x 10-34 m2 kg s-2
Planck Mass-Energy: 1.2209 x 1022 MeV
Mass of Electron, Proton, Neutron: 0.511; 938.3; 939.6 MeV
Mass of Up, Down, Strange Quark: 2.4; 4.8; 104 MeV (Approx.)
Ratio of Electron to Proton Mass: (1836.15)-1
Gravitational Coupling Constant: 5.9 x 10-39
Cosmological Constant: (2.3 x 10-3 eV)
Hubble Constant: 71 km/s/Mpc (today)
Higgs Vacuum Expectation Value: 246.2 GeV

These are the fundamental constants and quantities of the universe. Scientists have come to the shocking realization that each of these numbers have been carefully dialed to an astonishingly precise value - a value that falls within an exceedingly narrow, life-permitting range. If any one of these numbers were altered by even a hair's breadth, no physical, interactive life of any kind could exist anywhere. There'd be no stars, no life, no planets, no chemistry.Consider gravity, for example. The force of gravity is determined by the gravitational constant. If this constant varied by just one in 1060 parts, none of us would exist. To understand how exceedingly narrow this life-permitting range is, imagine a dial divided into 1060 increments. To get a handle on how many tiny points on the dial this is, compare it to the number of cells in your body (1014) or the number of seconds that have ticked by since time began (1020). If the gravitational constant had been out of tune by just one of these infinitesimally small increments, the universe would either have expanded and thinned out so rapidly that no stars could form and life couldn't exist, or it would have collapsed back on itself with the same result: no stars, no planets, no life.
dawkinist

Con

Well I would like to point out that yes one cannot deny the fact the universe is fine tuned for us but this doesn't supply evidence of a God. Firstly coming to the conclusion that God was the creator that still doesn't tell us how God himself came to be. In probability terms, a God capable of fine tuning the world so accurately and precisely would have to be at least as improbable as the fine tuning of our universe itself.

The Anthropic Principle tells us that the universe is fine tuned for us but it does so much more than just that. Richard Dawkins in 'The God Delusion' suggests this, it is estimated that "there are between 1 billion and 30 billion planets in our galaxy and about 100 billion galaxies, to round this off a billion billion is a conservative estimate to the number of available planets in universe. Say there is one in a billion chance that life could originate on a planet, even with these odds life would still arise on a billion planets." What I am saying is that yes this is speculative but no more speculative that God being the answer.

Using aspects of evolution we could say that we were given the set 'fine tuned' properties and we simply flourished and evolved in the conditions the planet provided for us.
The multiverse theory can also be used to say that we are among many different universes and happen to be one in which we can survive but there are many similar.

I understand it is very difficult to imagine just how we are here but really we do not have to create an explanation in the form of God just because we do not know the answer. But I feel it is far more likely that the creation and fine tuning of the earth wasn't such an improbable event. Again it is a hard concept for us to grasp just like grasping the idea of 'nothing' and our brains can limit our thinking there may be a completely different reason that we do not know but filling it with God is not the way forward.
Debate Round No. 1
TheNextDaVinci

Pro

My opponent, has made claims of "Finding an answer". This has no relevance to the question, we are debating if the "Fine Tuning" of the universe SUGGEST there being a creator, not that there is certainly a creator. Even on that note, the odds and chances that my opponent has suggested are nowhere in the ball park of the odds of they are. They are one in trillions, and trillions, and trillions. I feel that he is looking for a complete answer for God, instead of looking for evidence, or suggestions.
dawkinist

Con

Your response is laughable, OF COURSE there are suggestions for God there suggestions for aliens too. With regards to evidence well the reason for evidence is to find an answer and in this case if evidence was present then it would point to Gods existence? I fail to see how my argument has no relevance.

Of course the fine tuning of the universe 'suggests' that there may be a creator but how is that any different in saying that there evidence that suggests there isn't which is simply refuting your claim.

You haven't actually argued anything, you have copied and pasted figures for the structure of the universe and that is all you have contributed. It doesn't suggest anything at all. Just because we don't know the answer does not mean God is the answer.
Debate Round No. 2
TheNextDaVinci

Pro

TheNextDaVinci forfeited this round.
dawkinist

Con

Well thought as much
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by dawkinist 12 months ago
dawkinist
http://www.reasonablefaith.org...

This is where my opponent has copy and pasted his argument from, I must say your physics is great...
Posted by dawkinist 12 months ago
dawkinist
I would like to add to the end of my second response "or creator"
Posted by TheNextDaVinci 12 months ago
TheNextDaVinci
Not even, we are only looking for a suggestion, or evidence of a creator, and he is doing an offal job at it too.
Posted by Ceaser_6.0 12 months ago
Ceaser_6.0
He probably heard "GOD " need to bash this no matter what!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 11 months ago
fire_wings
TheNextDaVincidawkinistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by JustAnotherFloridaGuy 11 months ago
JustAnotherFloridaGuy
TheNextDaVincidawkinistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.