The Instigator
bladerunner060
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
GarretKadeDupre
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Does the God of the Bible condone slavery?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
bladerunner060
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,307 times Debate No: 29585
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (24)
Votes (8)

 

bladerunner060

Pro

In a forum post, Garret and I were discussing whether God ever condones slavery. (http://www.debate.org...)

He suggested I challenge him on the subject, so I am.

A few rules (And Con, please suggest any changes in the comments or in PM prior to acceptance):

Burden of Proof is on me (for obvious reasons). However, here is my proposal of the standard of evidence:

Pro needs only to find a single instance in the bible of condoning slavery at some point, either implicitly or explicitly (The "New Covenant" argument doesn't apply here, we're just establishing whether it's ever been okay in God's eyes). As the bible is supposed to be the word and rules of god, if the bible says it, then the motion is carried.

Obviously, there are references to slavery in the bible (I'd hope we'd all be aware of that), so, it is essentially up to Con to establish an interpretation wherein the slavery is not condoned, or the slavery is not "really" slavery.

The New American Standard Bible translation will be used, as it's the Catholic Liturgy bible in the US.

Supplemental or apocryphal sources may be accepted but not necessarily.

Format note: I intend to only post one or two points a round, to give my opponent as much opportunity to respond as possible.


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With that established, I'd like to make my opening salvo. Con had argued before that the slaves in the bible weren't actually slaves, but rather indentured servants, held to pay off a debt but only for a time period. Still a form of slavery, but not one I have to attack, as the following passage in Leviticus shows:


Leviticus 25:

39 ‘If a [z]countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service. 40 He shall be with you as a hired man, as if he were a sojourner; he shall serve with you until the year of jubilee. 41 He shall then go out from you, he and his sons with him, and shall go back to his family, that he may return to the property of his forefathers.42 For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale. 43 You shall not rule over him with severity, but are to revere your God. 44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. 45 Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have [aa]produced in your land; they also may become your possession. 46 You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your [ab]countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.[1]


(emphasis obviously mine...I propose that can be assumed from now on, for Pro and Con).




[1] -- http://www.biblegateway.com...;

GarretKadeDupre

Con

Thanks for challenging me to this debate. I intend on learning something new here.

Guess what? I have. I concede. Thanks :)
Debate Round No. 1
bladerunner060

Pro

Well, props to my opponent for learning something! I guess I'll take the win and extend my arguments. Thanks to Con for his general reasonableness.
GarretKadeDupre

Con

You're welcome.

Lalalala...
Debate Round No. 2
bladerunner060

Pro

In hindsight, 5 rounds was a lot, huh?
GarretKadeDupre

Con

Not really. If I thought I had any ground to stand on, I would have drawn out translation arguments as long as I could. But I didn't have one bit. Lol.
Debate Round No. 3
bladerunner060

Pro

Well, at least you aren't just letting the clock run down on your side. That's always frustrating; if it's over let it be over already!

I am curious about what impact, if any, this will have on your other theological positions. But that's a conversation for some other venue, and may wind up being the premise for another debate!
GarretKadeDupre

Con

Well, as long as we post our arguments fast enough, this can be over quickly and you can have your win :)

I don't think it has much impact on my other theological positions. I personally don't believe that God condoned slavery, but I won't bother arguing it in this debate because my premise is based on the New Covenant thing. Basically, God 'allowed' slavery, because the people were going to do it anyway, and he wanted to give them more wiggle room so they could get to Heaven. Kind of like the way he allowed divorce in the Old Testament. But anyways, that is for another debate.
Debate Round No. 4
bladerunner060

Pro

Interesting, and certainly a discussion for another time. As for this, at least it's over! I won't be heartbroken if this winds up voteless.
Debate Round No. 5
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
Ah.
Posted by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
I was the first one to vote. I left everything a tie and said "this is a vote" for my RFD. I didn't change it until after others started to vote with points.
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
Now that I think about it, 1 point is more humiliating than 0 points. Instead of just losing, I had someone feel sorry for me.

No no no I didn't say take it back! :P
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
Sweet. By the way I was bluffing; I didn't see your original RFD. What was it? O.o
Posted by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
Conduct you say? Done.
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
LOL, that would be funny if you lost!
Posted by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
I will admit that I would resent it if I lost because of, say, votebombing or something, but I will say I think Con deserves a few points a least, for behaving like a gentleman. Conduct, anybody?
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
Yep.

*awkward silence.*
Posted by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
Did you see my original vote and RFD before I changed it?
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 4 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
People feel they have a need to put an RFD and it's quite insulting to me. Lol.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Jarhyn 4 years ago
Jarhyn
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Total points awarded:51 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to CON because he conceded rather than defending an untenable position. Obviously convincing and sources to PRO for using the bible, an authoritative source on what the bible says and for providing proof that the bible condoned such slavery
Vote Placed by Bodhivaka 4 years ago
Bodhivaka
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con conceded.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Reasons for voting decision: The NASB is different from the NAB.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Con conceded in the opening arguments.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro provided a quote showing the bible condoned slavery and Con conceded.
Vote Placed by OhioGary 4 years ago
OhioGary
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: A forfeit is a forfeit. Plus, I read the OT and knew about slavery, not eating cheeseburgers, not wearing cloth made of two different fibers, and on and on and on... sorry, Con; it wasn't for you this time. All the points to Pro and I wish I could see Pro's face to see that I gave points to bladerunner60 over GKD. No my account is not hacked.
Vote Placed by jh1234l 4 years ago
jh1234l
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by Xerge 4 years ago
Xerge
bladerunner060GarretKadeDupreTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession