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Does the Quran preach violence

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/18/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,228 times Debate No: 76660
Debate Rounds (4)
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It was always thought that the Quran is a book of violence and intolerance however I found the opposite where the Quran preaches love, peace and tolerance to other religions even more than any other book. If you see that it does preach violence accept this debate


I absolutely believe that the Qur'an teaches violence and would love to debate you on this topic.
Debate Round No. 1


I am glad you joined this debate and I hope it would be enjoyavle for us. Anyway the Quran is a book of 114 chapters which must not be taken as parts and leave parts since it has dozens of peacefull verses and war verses and here are the peace verses: Chapter Al Mumtahinah:" God doesnt forbid youmto friend the dosbelievers who didnt fight you in the cause of religion and didnt out of your houses and you can love the, and deal justly with them" amd in Chapter Al Maidah it says" and dont letyour hatred to a nation drives you to deal unjustly with them.Deal jistly this is nearer to purity(Al Taqwah)" and im the same chapter it says "And dont let your hatred for people who have driven you out of Al Maskid Al Haram(Muslims hometown) make you attack them" these berses were revealed after Muhammed had an upper hand in Mecca when he retirned to his hometowm amd it says in Chapter Al Baqarah"no compulsion in relgion" and in Chapter of Al Furqan" and the Slaves ofthe Mosts Merciful(God) are those whom when the evildoers are harsh to them in speach they reply with peace" and we have in the Quran dozens of passages which speaks anout the people of the Book(Jews amd Christians) and the most wonderful is impn Surat AlmBaqarah " Those who have beloeved and those who are jews and those who are Christians amd the converts who believes in God amd the Day of Judgment then they must have no fear and they must be reliefed" and in Al Maidah it says" today the good things are made lawful for you andmthe food of the people of the book is lawful formyou amd your fodd is lawful for them" and also in Al Maidah" Dont argue woth the people of the book except with whatsbetter amd Say(O Muhammed): Our God amd your God is the same amd we believe in what was reavealed to you amd what was revealed to us from our God and we submit to Him" and even the Hypocrites who were spies on Muhammed we find in Chapter of Hupocrites (Al Minafiqoon) it says" and if you tell them(thenhypocrites) come andmlet the prophet seek God forgiveness on you they refuse" we see Prophet seeking God's forgiveness on the people who betrayed him and tried throce to assassinate him yet we find in the Quran verses like "He is who driven thenpeople of the Book out of their territories a group you captivyand a group you kill" amd "When the sacred months pass kill the imfidels wherever you find them" and "Dont take Jews and Christians as allies" and " Smite off their necks" well we smust understand that these arent general verses since I showed in the begining the verse which ORDERS muslims to treat peaceful disbelievers justly. andn allowing Muslims and people of Book eat together and even Marry from each other then how they werent friends amd allies? Well these verses were of ceratin people who attacked Muslims in Medina and driven them out from Mecca amd waged war on 300 unweapomed Muslims but God then gave a right for all the people to deffend thier lives amd only deffend since the verse says in Al Baqarah" Fight in the cause of God those who fight you only and dont offend simce God doesnt love offenders" amd "Of they cease their attack you must stop" and in Al Anfal"If they incline to peace incline to it too" and even in Surat al tawbah after the verse kill the imfidels it says " and if anynof the imfidels sekk your refuge then give it to them and make them hear the words of God then take him to a safe place" this shows that all verses in comsideration these harsh verses of war are only deffensive as I showed the verses whoch said that and even the captives of war should be freed according to Chapter of Muhammed"Put on thier chains(captives) and when war is end free them for no reward or free the,mafter paying ransom" and we find in the Quran God tellingnhis prophet about those who mock him " Forgive and love since God loves the forgivers" and heres one ofmmy favpurite verses in Al Mumtahina" May God make between you and those whomfought you from the disbelievers love and mercy" and lots and lots anyway sorry for the dozens of speeling mistakes since I am writing quickly


Alright...just so I make myself clear, I am only going to be using the interpretations of the greatest Muslim commentators on the Qur'an as well as Muhammad and his companions, lest my opponent accuses me of taking any passage out of context.

Surah 2:193 - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimin (the polytheists and wrongdoers).)

Ibn Kathir's commentary on this ayah - "Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said: (And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'

Surah 2:216 - Fighting is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

Ibn Kathir - "In this Ayah, Allah made it OBLIGATORY for the Muslims to fight in Jihad against the evil of the enemy who transgress against Islam. Az-Zuhri said, "Jihad is required from every person, whether he actually joins the fighting or remains behind. Whoever remains behind is required to give support, if support is warranted; to provide aid, if aid is needed; and to march forth, if he is commanded to do so. If he is not needed, then he remains behind.'

Surah 4:74 - So fight those who trade the life of this world with the Hereafter, in the cause of Allah, and whoever fights in the cause of Allah, and is killed or gets victory, We shall bestow on him a great reward.

Ibn Kathir - Allah then said, (So fight) the believer with an aversion (to fighting), (those who trade the life of this world with the Hereafter) referring to those sell their religion for the meager goods of the world, and they only do this because of their disbelief and lack of faith. Allah then said; (And whoever fights in the cause of Allah, and is killed or gets victory, We shall bestow on him a great reward.) meaning, whoever fights in the cause of Allah, whether he was killed or triumphant, he will earn an immense compensation and a great reward with Allah.

Notice how the criteria for fighting are those who embrace a religion other than Islam, not because they fight you first.

Surah 5:33 - The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified, or their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.

Ibn Kathir - `Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. Ibn Jarir recorded that `Ikrimah and Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that the Ayat, "Were revealed about the idolators. Therefore, the Ayah decrees that, whoever among them repents before you apprehend them, then you have no right to punish them. This Ayah does not save a Muslim from punishment if he kills, causes mischief in the land or wages war against Allah and His Messenger and then joins rank with the disbelievers, before the Muslims are able to catch him.

Surah 5:12 - (Remember) when your Lord revealed to the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.'

Ibn Kathir - means, `you -- angels -- support the believers, strengthen their (battle) front against their enemies, thus, implementing My command to you. I will cast fear, disgrace and humiliation over those who defied My command and denied My Messenger, strike them on their foreheads to tear them apart and over the necks to cut them off, and cut off their limbs, hands and feet. It was said that, refers to striking the forehead, or the neck, according to Ad-Dahhak and `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi.

Surah 8:39 - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah, and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone. But if they cease, then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

Ibn Kathir - "So that there is no more Shirk.' Muhammad bin Ishaq said that he was informed from Az-Zuhri, from `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr and other scholars that the Fitnah mentioned here means, until no Muslim is persecuted so that he abandons his religion. Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said about Allah's statement, "So that Tawhid is practiced in sincerity with Allah.'

Surah 9:5 - So when the Sacred Months have passed, then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give the Zakah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Ibn Kathir - Mujahid, `Amr bin Shu`ayb, Muhammad bin Ishaq, Qatadah, As-Suddi and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that the four months mentioned in this Ayah are the four-month grace period mentioned in the earlier Ayah, Allah said next, (So when the Sacred Months have passed...), meaning, `Upon the end of the four months during which We prohibited you from fighting the idolators, and which is the grace period We gave them, then fight and kill the idolators wherever you may find them.' Allah's statement next, (then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, ON THE EARTH IN GENERAL, except for the Sacred Area. This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It ABROGATED EVERY AGREEMENT OF PEACE between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.'

Surah 9:29 - Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Ibn Kathir - This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. (Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.)
Wow...this does sound like Islam is a religion of peace.

Surah 9:30 - And the Jews say: "Uzayr (Ezra) is the son of Allah,' and the Christians say: "The Messiah is the son of Allah.' That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. May Allah fight them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

Ibn Kathir - Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that `Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars, (That is their saying with their mouths), but they have no proof that supports their claim, other than lies and fabrications, may Allah fight them), Ibn `Abbas said, "May Allah curse them.'

Surah 9:73 - O Prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, -- and worst indeed is that destination.

Ibn Kathir - Allah commanded His Messenger to strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and to be harsh against them. Allah also commanded him to be merciful with the believers who followed him, informing him that the destination of the disbelievers and hypocrites is the Fire in the Hereafter. Ibn `Abbas said, "Allah commanded the Prophet to fight the disbelievers with the sword, to strive against the hypocrites with the tongue and annulled lenient treatment of them.' Ad-Dahhak commented, "Perform Jihad against the disbelievers with the sword and be harsh with the hypocrites with words, and this is the Jihad performed against them.' Similar was said by Muqatil and Ar-Rabi`. Al-Hasan and Qatadah said, "Striving against them includes establishing the (Islamic Penal) Law of equality against them.' In combining these statements, we could say that Allah causes punishment of the disbelievers and hypocrites with all of these methods in various conditions and situations, and Allah knows best.

Surah 9:123 - O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who have Taqwa.

Ibn Kathir - Allah commands the believers to fight the disbelievers, the closest in area to the Islamic state, then the farthest.

The evidence is conclusive, Islam teaches violence, unless you disagree with the greatest Muslim scholars to ever live, Muhammad's companions, and Muhammad himself, then maybe you should leave Islam. Because they were all in agreement that Muslims are commanded to fight the unbelievers, simply because they don't believe in Islam or because they associate partners with Allah.
Debate Round No. 2


The problem gere is that I am a aquranist and I really domt believe in Ibn kathir tafseer or even hadiths and I didnt say in this debate ISLAM preaches violence I said the Quran and if you know ibn Kathir loved 3 centuries adter the death of Muhammed and Islam was complete amd even traditional muslims dont believe in all of what Ibn Kathir says hes only a man and I have an objecrion since you got out of topic since I was debating the Quran and not commentary of Quran and regaring the word Fitnah in arabic has nothing to do with disbelief it means persecution and lets say that Ibn Kathir is true what does he says about "If they incline to peace then incline to it" in Al Anfal amd in al Baqarah "If they stop then stop" ?? what are these verses?? Nothing ?? and if it was to fight all Jews and Christians how could we eat with them and marry from them as in Al Maidah says ?? and can he deny in Al Maida "Youd find the most loving to those who believe are Christians" ?? I think my opponent realized that the words of Quran are peaceful then he used commemtaries to show his point! Forget about and lets see the verse without commentary of "The penalty of those who wage war on Allah and his prophet..." from your intelligence does wage war mean disobey they have two different meanings in Arabic the word ised in verse was Yuhariboom amd not yooardoon and this means physical war since the word is derived from Harab means killing anyway and if it was only disobeying why the prophet prayed for the Hupocrites who tried to assasinate him as in Chapter Al Munafiqoon "And ifnyou tell them comemandnlet the prophet seek Gods forfiveness om you" and ot says"They are the true enemy so take care from them" then why didnt he say kill them ?? amd how can ypu demy the verses "No compulsion in religion" if the verses you stated.meant fighting until they beieve ?? I am sorry but my oppomemt ,ust only state the Quran as the debate was and not Man-,ade commentaries amd understandings was Ibn Kathir revealed to him!! amd let me take your verses one by one the forst one as I stated Frimah ,eams persecution in Arabic and I have nothing to do with the ,istranslation since other translations have the rightt meaning and that of tjose who traded thoer lives with herafter. eams tjose who wage war on you as we camt cherry-pick verses amd leave the verse saying"Fiight in the path of Hod those who fight you" in Al baqarah so those who fight you are those who traded live woth Herafter amd that of the mecks is also im deffensive war as I showed you the verses I domt know why ,t oppomemt camt understand that the Quran ,ust be takem in whole amd I ask jim a straight question amd I demmand an answer if your quoted verses ,eamt offemsive verses what do the verses I state mean ?? Dont they say ot os deffensive ?? I de,mand him to tell ,e why he ignpres the berses I state


Loubna, you need to understand something, the Qur'an as I see it was basically written to address different situations in Muhammad's life. This explains why the Qur'an has very contradicting views on how to deal with unbelievers.

You say that you are a Qur'an only Muslim, which makes you a heretic among the mainstream Muslim community. You may reject Hadiths and the interpretations of Ibn Kathir, but you don't understand my methodology.

I don't use Ibn Kathir to prove my contentions, the verses speak for themselves when read in context. I use Ibn Kathir and the Hadith to prevent Muslims from accusing me from interpreting it to my likening. Ibn Kathir and the early Muslims quoted the very passages I provided to prove that Islam allows Muslims to fight and subjugate unbelievers.

You say "well then, how do you explain the verses that encourage peace between Muslims and non-believers?"
Like I said, the Qur'an is basically a mish-mash of verses that seem to mostly deal with the situation that Muhammad was in.

This is what I like to refer to as the 3 stages of Jihad.

Stage 1 - When Muslims are in the minority, they have no other choice but to preach peace and tolerance. Stage 1 is the context in which the peaceful verses like Surah 119 were supposedly "revealed".

Stage 2 - When Muslims gain more power, they are allowed to employ defensive jihad. This is where verses like Surah 2:190 were "revealed".

Stage 3 - When Muslims are in the majority, you will then see the true face of Islam. At this stage Muslims are allowed to fight OFFENSIVELY, not only in self-defense. Which explain why verses like Surah 47:35 - Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost, for Allah is with you.

If you read the history of Muhammad's life and commentaries on the Qur'an, the 3 stages of jihad I just mentioned will become crystal clear.
In fact, whenever Muslims even today are out numbered, they preach peace and tolerance (stage 1). When Muslims gain more power, they employ defensive jihad, for example: when cartoonists make fun of Muhammad in Europe, they fight because the unbelievers are now causing mischief in the land. When Muslims are in the majority, they employ OFFENSIVE jihad (stage 3). Just look at all the Muslim majority countries. Christians are being persecuted left and right, churches are being burned, Christians are being killed on the streets, as well as any one else who is not a Muslim. I have yet to go ONE DAY without seeing a story of a Muslim mutilating or killing a non-Muslim SIMPLY for being non-Muslims.

And also, a recent poll done by AL-Jazeerah showed that 81% of Muslims in the Middle East support ISIS:

Further proof that the 3 stages of jihad is a reality, not myth.

Islam does teach violence, as I have established from the Qur'an and the companions of Muhammad.

If you know more than Muhammad and his companions, then maybe you should be the prophet of Islam, not Muhammad. Islam didn't start with you and it's not going to end with you.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I speak the truth in love, not hate.
Debate Round No. 3


The problem here again is that youre talking again with a different view. Do you mean that verses abrogate each other ?? Thats not true anyway and I expected you to say that and accuse the Quran of changing itself and its verses. I think tou refer to the verses of Al Baqarah:"Theres isnt an Ayah we Nansekhuha wxcept we send down what is better or equivelent" yes it seems here that Muslims tend to imterpret it like ayah means a verse and naskh means abrogate which is tottllay not true at al. We find the Quran saying "They will tell you bring us a miracle" rhe word used for miracle in this verse was ayah which means a sign and nasakh means record in Arabic ehich means theres no miracle which we record or even cause it to be forgotten except we reveal whats better than this miracle or equivalent. Then how can a verse be equivalent to it and change it ?? Thats not true at all. I demmand you explain to me why are you so sure about Quranic abrogation and how do you know which verses came before and after ?? If abrogation was true as you say o told you stage 3 was offensive and 1 peaceful why not the opposite ?? Theres no historical account of the chronological order of Quran except by narrations through generations which we may not be sure if they are true. On thcontrary if you read the Quran by its order now the stages are opposite to what ypu say you would find Stage 1 offensive qnd 2 deffenive and 3 peaceful but I dont blieve in that anyway. Reagarding the Cartoonist this isnt mischief in lamd and theres no Islamic teaching approves killing cartoonist.we have again the Hypocrites treason and we have the Prophet seeking Gods forgiveness on them and this was iaccording to your understanding of Islam when he had an upper hand and was strong enough to kill them amd even if you want to say Surat Al Tawba calls for offmsice Jihad when it says" Kill the infidels wherever you find them......" amd then why the next cerse in the same Chapter says"amd of any of the imfidels seek your refuge then give it to them and make thrm, hear Gods words and take them to a safe place" ?? Doeant this show that it isdeffensive since if the infidel was peaceful and sought refuge and didnt fight no ine may harm them?? It wasnt die or believe as you think it was for offensive infidels to die but peaceful ones to seek refuge and no harm on them and dont tell me this verse was abrogated because according to what youvbelieve this is the last Chapter of the Quran and in your beloef it is in stage 3 I demmand your explqnation of this! Well I dont know these statistics of Jazeerah since I live in Egypt amd 100 percent of th poppilation is against ISIS even the extremists here are against it and about churches and Christian brothers we live in complete harmony and I graduated froma ChristianSchool and lice next to a Church and theres a 24/7 Egyptian Police protecting it and no harm ever touched it ecer since I was born and even we see our Shiekhs with the great Popes of the Coptic Chruch making lovely imterviewsamd advertisment for Cancer Charity together and even Mr President visited the Cathedral on 7th of Januray th Coptic Christmas and even if this wasnt the case Islam has nothing to do woth what Muslims think it should be! I leave you with this verse of Al Maidah, A Medinian chapter of which mu oponent belive to be a stage 3 offensive part, and it narrates the story of Cain and Habel when One of the,crose his hand to kill the other the other told him"If you rose your gand to kill me I would never rise my hand to kill you(deffense) bcause I fear God the Lord of our universe" and in th same Chapter"Who kills a soul without being for justice incourt is as if he killed all the people amd who made it live as if he made all the people live" I Really dea,mamd an explanation for what I quoted from berses which you assume to be in stage 3


I am very disappointed in the shallow arguments of my opponent, even though this was the last round, I guess I can respond to some of his distortions of his own scriptures.

My opponent said "I demmand you explain to me why are you so sure about Quranic abrogation and how do you know which verses came before and after ??"

Because the Qur'an itself says so:
Surah 2:106 - We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten EXCEPT that WE BRING FORTH ONE BETTER THAN IT OR SIMILAR TO IT. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?
If you have a problem with abrogation, then you have a problem with your Qur'an, not me.

My opponent said "even if you want to say Surat Al Tawba calls for offmsice Jihad when it says" Kill the infidels wherever you find them......" amd then why the next cerse in the same Chapter says"amd of any of the imfidels seek your refuge then give it to them and make thrm, hear Gods words and take them to a safe place" ?? Doeant this show that it isdeffensive since if the infidel was peaceful and sought refuge and didnt fight no ine may harm them??"

Yeah, the passage says "IF they seek protection, grant him protection, SO HE MAY HEAR THE WORDS OF ALLAH".
This isn't any better, the Qur'an doesn't say "if they seek protection, then protect them" it says "so they can hear the words of Allah". The Qur'an is basically forcing the polytheists to hear the words of Allah, if they refuse to hear the words of Allah, then no protection from Muslims.

My opponent said "It wasnt die or believe as you think it was for offensive infidels to die but peaceful ones to seek refuge and no harm on them and dont tell me this verse was abrogated because according to what youvbelieve this is the last Chapter of the Quran and in your beloef it is in stage 3 I demmand your explqnation of this! "

The last chapter of the Qur'an that were supposedly revealed was chapter 9. I can understand why Muslims, like you don't like quoting from it, it's the most violent chapter in the Qur'an. You asked me to provide you a verse where it says Offensive jihad is it is:
Surah 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the last day, nor hold that which is forbidden by Allah and his messenger until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Notice, the verse doesn't say "fight those who attack you" it doesn't say "fight those who are oppressing you".
The criteria for fighting people is given as "who believe not in Allah or his messenger".
The verse DOES NOT say fight those who are attacking you, so please don't try to put words into the Qur'an.

My opponent said "and in th same Chapter"Who kills a soul without being for justice incourt is as if he killed all the people amd who made it live as if he made all the people live"

This is by far I think your worst argument. Muslims in the West often quote Surah 5:32 (the one you quoted) in order to prove that Islam forbids killing. The key to interpreting a passage correctly is to READ IT IN CONTEXT. Either in the immediate context of the verse, the context of the chapter it is in, or the context of the Qur'an as a whole.
Let's see what Surah 5:32 ACTUALLY means when read IN CONTEXT:

Surah 5:30 - "And his soul permitted to him the murder of his brother, so he killed him and became among the losers."
quick note: it was Cain who killed Abel in this passage.

Surah 5:31 - "Then Allah sent a crow searching in the ground to show him how to hide the disgrace of his brother. He said, "O woe to me! Have I failed to be like this crow and hide the body of my brother?" And he became of the regretful."

Surah 5:32 - "BECAUSE OF THAT, We DECREED UPON THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Because of what? Because of Cain murdering Abel. This law refers to who? The Muslims? No, the Children of Israel, as the passage clearly says.
Let's continue...


Ibn Kathir on Surah 5:33 - "`Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. "

So in context, the very verse that you quoted to prove that Islam doesn't allow killing, ACTUALLY allows Muslims to kill, crucify, and mutilate those who speak out against Allah or Muhammad.

With that said, The Qur'an is a violent book. It allows Muslims to fight when they are uppermost, it allows Muslims to mutilate people who make fun of their God or their prophet, it allows Muslims to disrespect non-Muslims.
Debate Round No. 4
39 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HardRockHallelujah 2 years ago
This also proves that Muhammad did not preach the same message as Moses or Jesus, or Isaiah. All of which affirmed that God is our Father.
Posted by HardRockHallelujah 2 years ago
Shalal, believe what you want, I couldn't careless what you believe.

But get this through your head, Jews and Christians agree that God is our Father. And according to your book, the Jews and Christians were given scriptures, and your book also says God preserved those scriptures. Was God trying to mislead us by saying he is our Father? Was God trying to mislead us Christians by giving us scriptures that say Jesus Christ is God incarnate who died on the cross for our sins?

The God of the Qur'an is NOT the same God revealed in our scriptures, your book contradicts the Torah and Gospel on core doctrines.
Posted by shalal12 2 years ago

In fact you commit blasphemy and then you say it was not my intention to commit blasphemy!

As if you insult a person using bad words and you say "I assume that those bad words mean something else."

God has created you in a way and created Jesus in another way. Just think of Adam (the first human) with your logic one can say:
God is spiritual mother and father of Adam. (I ask God the great Lord of the world to forgive me for making such an example as He is exalted . Subhanahu am'ma youshrikun).
God can create a human from one mother or even from nothing. Using the word father is offensive for God even if you mean something else by using "father".
In fact you insult God even if you don't mean it.
Posted by Loubna 2 years ago
This wasnt Muhammed's error as this was the belief of Christians in the Arabic peninsula that time and the their trinity wasnt the same as now since they had 1-Father 2-Mother 3-Son and if you dont believe me you may search it. No when Islam says "God didnt begot a son" and it stresses that was about BEGOTTEN and means that God denies having a real son yet he approves it metaphorically. Quran denies that god is the third of three but you say that He is one God in 3 persons and not 3 seperate Gods so this is quiet acceptable and denying God having son amd daughters was for polythiests who believed that Allat and Al Uzah the idols are BEGOTTEN daughters of God (by intercourse) and the proof of what I say is in Al Baqarah " Those who are Muslims amd the Jews and Christians who belive in God and the Last Daytheymust not fear that day"
Posted by HardRockHallelujah 2 years ago
Loubna, Islam denies that God is our Father, period. show me anywhere in the Qur'an where it says Jews and Christians are disbelievers for believing we are the sexually procreated children of God, you won't find it. Once again, you hproved to me that you do not understand what it means when we call God our Father and Jesus Christ the Son. We DO NOT believe that we are the children of God through sexual procreation, that's blasphemy, we believe that God is a SPIRITUAL FATHER. Secondly, we DO NOT believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God because God had sex with Mary, this is something Muhammad ERRONEOUSLY assumed in Surah 5:116 and Surah 6:101. The reason why Jesus is called the Son of God, is because he shares the same nature with God the Father, meaning Jesus is God.
Thirdly, just because you affirm Jesus is the Christ DOES NOT mean that Islam is not Antichrist, the criteria given in scripture for Antichrist is denying the Father and the Son, Muhammad denied the Father and the Son, you deny the Father and the Son, so both of you end up being Antichrist.

Shalal, you just demonstrated that Muhammad is Antichrist for denying the Father and the Son. So I thank you in exposing your prophet to be a child of Satan.
And also, you don't know what it means to call God Father. Christians DO NOT believe that God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus, this is something Muhammad ERRONEOUSLY assumed (Surah 5:116 and Surah 6:101), this is blasphemy. We believe that Jesus is the Son of God for one reason: he is God the Son. Secondly Christians believe that God is a SPIRITUAL Father, we DO NOT believe that God had sex with a consort and we are the by-product of that, God forbid such blasphemy.
Posted by shalal12 2 years ago

Don't you wanna think?!
You call God the father of Jesus?!
A father mates with a his wife to make her pregnant!
Maryam (Peace be upon her) was never touched by a man or something.
I don't care what your testaments say, just think about what you say!
Surat Al-Baqarah 116 (2:116):
"They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him"
Surat Maryam 35 (19:35):
"It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is."
Posted by Loubna 2 years ago
amd Islammdoesnt deny prophet Jesus is CHRIST since surat al maidah " The Messiah(Christ) is Jesus son of Marry the prophet of God"
Posted by Loubna 2 years ago
Islam doesnt deny God is our father at all if it is a metaphorical meaning of that he created us and took care of us but Islam denies than any was the BEGOTTEN son of God simce begotten has a shameful meaning which demeans God as Nothing like Him and I ask you what does BEGOTTEN son of God mean ?
Posted by HardRockHallelujah 2 years ago
Muhammad contradicts virtually everything essential to the Bible

Moses and Jesus called God our Father (Deuteronomy 32:6, Mark 14:36)
Muhammad denied God was our Father (Surah 5:18)

The Old Testament prophets recognized that God has a Son(2 Samuel 7:13-14, 1 Chronicles 17:14, Psalm 2:7, Psalm 2:11-12, Proverbs 30:4, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6)
Muhammad denied that God has a Son (Surah 9:30)

Out of everything Muhammad could of denied, it just had to be the Fatherhood of God, and his Son...

1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST who DENIES THE FATHER AND THE SON.

If Jesus was a true prophet, then Muhammad is a false prophet for denying what Jesus and Moses affirmed about God.
Posted by Loubna 2 years ago
I think my oppomemt doesnt understand English when I told him about "wage war" in the debate and insists on quoting Ibn Kathir the commemtator who never even seen the Prophet once and loved 3 centuries and more after his death. The word in Arabic used in verse is Yuharibun again which means physical war since the word is derived from Arabic HRB (ح ر ب) meaning kill. So how does Wage war here meam disobey when the word in Arabic for disobey is Yooaridun from ARD (ع ر ض) meaning against amd even if you say it means insult then Arabic word for imsult is Yastahzioon from (ه زء) but no the word in verse is Yuhariboon meaning fighting for killing (physical armed war) amd so the penalty for those who fight is to fight them too. The word for imsulting appears in Quran in the same Chapter when Hypocrites insulted Islamic prayers and there was no memtion of any punishmemt to them
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