The Instigator
EvilPyro736
Pro (for)
The Contender
ISDA
Con (against)

Does the United States today resemble the fall of the Roman Empire

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Debate Round Forfeited
EvilPyro736 has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 140 times Debate No: 105870
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

EvilPyro736

Pro

In this argument, the pro (me) is arguing that the fall of Rome resemble the United States today while con is against that.

Keep in mind that "even though I may disagree with what you say, I will fight to the very death for you to have the right to say it."

My argument: The United States in today does resemble the fall of the Roman Empire. Even though the Roman Empire was an empire and the United States is a republic, both are or were imperialist. Here are some of the reasons the Roman Empire fell:
  • The split between east and west
  • Military overspending
  • Corruption
  • The rise of Christianity
  • Hiring barbarians to fight
  • Rebellions
  • The Ottoman Empire
  • Loyalist to generals, not the empire
The split was by far one of the biggest reasons why Rome fell, the split was caused by the empire getting to big for one emperor to handle, so the solution was to split the emperor for 2 emperors. Which caused the west to be cut off from the rest of the world leading to economic decline. The United States does NOT have that problem even if the US does split, each side can trade with one another and which the countries on the other side of the Atlantic and Pacific. And travel is very easy.

Another cause was military overspending. With any civilization overspends on the military, they can't use that money to invest into the economy because they are using it on the military. The empire used 2.5% of the empire's GDP and the United States uses 3.8 of its GDP on the military.

Another cause was corruption. Corruption causes instability within any civilization. During the Roman Empire, bribery was the norm. In the United States corruption is common, the government is notorious for not fighting corruption and corporations regularly lobby money to government officials.

There are endless reason why Rome fell and the United States share some traits, and remember, history repeats itself.
ISDA

Con

In the debate does the United States today resemble the fall of the roman empire I will be taking the negative side. Before I layout my argument I would like point out some flaws in the oppositions argument.

Rebuttal
Military overspending
Corruption
Sharing traits

My first rebuttal is addressing the oppositions point off the military overspending. The United States is incredibly different to the roman empire, and for the purposes of this rebuttal, it's economy is very different. In current days countries are allowed to spend more on military as much of the economy is located overseas. The Roman Empire was in the days leading to it's collapse was far more home based economy. The US has many more allies and has far more trade overseas and can have the freedom to protect itself.

Corruption is although a problem with America's government and the Roman Empire, as you, yourself mentioned, and as I will talk about later, they have completely different ideologies which means that corruption has a different effect. In a empire that is not a democracy, these people go unpunished and keep going, however, the United States are a democracy which means that they can be stopped through mere knowledge of the events, which you have shown people have.

The opposition has stated that Roman Empire and the US have some similar traits. yet what they have in common does not resemble the Roman Empire enough to say that the US is falling.

Now onto my main points.
The main points for the negative are as follows:
Different ideologies
Different times
Different allies
Different type of war

As you mentioned the US and the Romans had different ideologies which means that anything that happens have different effects. Do not mention the fact that politicians are bad, or that spending is terrible when the effects of doing such a thing has a tremendously different effect on your career.

The Roman Empire is in a different era to the United States and countries do not simply collapse like they did in the olden days. Things such as the UN and free trading helps countries stay afloat. So unless you just said 'history repeats itself' for dramatic purposes the US isn't going to collapse anytime soon.

The United States has different rules and allies the Roman Empire. A nation these days cannot just up and attack when the day before they were allies. Also countries are far less likely to try and annex for a brief period without serious consequences.

The only way to attack in the times of the Roman Empire was to cut off trade and attack. These days it is almost impossible to just occupy another country without the UN, shutting you down.

So in conclusion the US does share some traits that are shared but due to all different factors, described above, many of the effects have different end results and due to this the US will not repeat the history of the the Roman Empire.
Debate Round No. 1
EvilPyro736

Pro

Yes the United States does have many allies over sea, but relationships can turn for the worse quickly. Without those allies, the United States would not be a rich as they are today. Plus the Roman Empire did plenty of trading with out civilization especially China.
The United States is one of the most corrupt governments in the world. Most politicians are accused of corruption but nothing is done. Most people don't even care about corruption. The United States is horrible when it comes to dealing with corruption.

On your points, the argument is "Does the United States Today Resemble the Fall of the Roman Empire" not "Will the United States Fall Because of Similar Traits to the Roman Empire"

The United Nations is barely effective at anything, the UN tried to numerous times to resolve would problems and they are not effective at all. And if the United States pulled out of the UN, then a huge chunk of the UN's power vanishes.

Yes, times are different today, but every country will eventually collapse. The British Empire used to be considered a superpower along the United States and the Soviet Union. They quickly declines even with the UN. Today, the British only have their home island, and a few islands in the oceans.
ISDA

Con

As a response to your rebuttal I will lay out my points to counter yours.

Rebuttal
Trade
Corruption
UN
The British

Addressing your point on the trade with the Chinese, yes the Romans traded with the Chinese, however, as I stated, times are different. An ally these days would not just suddenly turn on an you as a war would not be the same as before. In the times of the Roman empire a war meant constant back and forth campaigns until one side surrendered or was destroyed. Bad, yes, but these days it could mean the annihilation of the human race and every country with the capabilities to use nuclear weapons, and even most that can't, know this. So, again due to different times large scale, country collapsing, war, is far less likely to happen.

Corruption, again yes it is a big problem in the US, but still due to the different ideologies thing, people aren't elected more than a few times, if they are corrupt. Or possibly they resign which is the far more likely thing to happen because they know they won't get elected again. Therefore it is either not big enough to make headlines and therefore won't mean the end of one of the largest countries in the world, economically speaking of course, or it does make headlines and that politician resigns.

The UN is easy to throw shame at it because it is good at it's job. It wouldn't still be around if it wasn't. All you hear about the UN is bad things because that is what makes the news because it is rarer for it to fail than it is for it to succeed. To demonstrate this point I show you the amount of car crashes, in monitored areas of the ASIRT (on average 3,287 deaths a day) to plane crashes (one passenger per 11,501,886) yet what is more likely to make the news. To show that the UN actually does do it's job I show you this link.
-http://www.un.org...

Yes, all countries will eventually fall and that includes the US, but, it won't be soon, and it won't resemble the fall of the Roman Empire. The British Empire is a completely different situation, first, it has been around for hundreds of years with far more time to corrode. Secondly, the British still are the head of the commonwealth and their monarchy is still in charge of Australia, Canada and many more.

So in conclusion, your rebuttal doesn't discredit my argument and my point still stands.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by EvilPyro736 1 month ago
EvilPyro736
No country in history has ever lasted forever
So yes the US will fall eventually but I think not from a foreign power, the collapse will probably come from within
Posted by Nd2400 1 month ago
Nd2400
ISDA: just curious do you think US power will last forever? Or do you think eventually they will fall?
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