The Instigator
Thaddaeus
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
32 Points

Does using torture increase the likelihood that our soldiers will get tortured?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/13/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,344 times Debate No: 5000
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (10)

 

Thaddaeus

Con

The answer is no. Islamic fundamentalists don't live by some sort of code of retributive justice: they will torture and behead anyone that gets in their way, regardless of whether that person is an innocent and defenseless nun on a peacekeeping mission or a soldier from a country that tortures its enemies. It's silly to think that waterboarding terrorists somehow increases the likelihood that our soldiers will get tortured if caught by terrorists. The chances of torture is, and always has been, 100%. It's not like terrorists have a "torture checklist" which includes instructions like: "has the captive's country tortured people? if yes, then torture him. if no, then leave him be."
brian_eggleston

Pro

With thanks to Thaddaeus for starting this debate, I must negate my opponent's assertion.

Before I begin, however, I should like to point out that not all Islamic fundamentalists are terrorists (or freedom fighters, as the armed militia may be termed in Palestine, which is illegally occupied by Israel).

The main crux of my rebuttal is as follows: Islamic terrorism has to be funded and these funds come from sympathisers to their cause. Clearly, it is easier to raise funds when the terrorist organisations can point to instances where fellow Muslims have been tortured by US, or other Western forces.

If the US did not torture Muslim prisoners (and also did not blindly support Israel's persecution of Arabs) the terrorists would have a much tougher job raising funds to support their violent campaigns.
Debate Round No. 1
Thaddaeus

Con

Thaddaeus forfeited this round.
brian_eggleston

Pro

Like every right minded person, I would like to see an end to terrorism. However, this will not be achieved by resorting to the methods terrorists, themselves, employ. We in the West and the rest of the civilised world must always retain the moral high ground - which means we do not resort to torturing prisoners.
Debate Round No. 2
Thaddaeus

Con

The problem with my opponent's argument is that it's not very realistic. Islamic fundamentalists are by definition irrational and loopy: they don't care whether America has tortured Muslims. They just want all non-Muslims to die. That's the precise definition of Islamic fundamentalist, so it's not inaccurate to say that most (if not all) Islamic fundamentalists are terrorists. The main point is that these people will kill infidels (i.e., non-Muslims) regardless of whether those infidels tortured or torture Muslims.

Also, Israel isn't the bad guy in the Israel/Palestine conflict. All countries are justified in defending their citizens from terrorists.
brian_eggleston

Pro

I think it is a shame that the right-wing media have indoctrinated people in the West to such an extent that some people automatically equate Islam with terrorism. There are some Islamic terrorists, true. There are also some Catholic terrorists, for example in Northern Ireland. But not all Catholics are terrorists and neither are all Muslims.

United Nations' Security Council Resolution 242 states that Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and so any resistance to this occupation is legitimate and, therefore, cannot be described as terrorism.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by The_Serb 3 years ago
The_Serb
Well Iraqis were tortured under Saddam
They were tortured during the war
They are tortured today

btw: torture is often justified
Posted by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
**sigh** Not all Muslims are evil, some are, but, some Christians are, some atheists, are, and I could go on and on....Some act badly, and that earns a steroetype?Muslim does not=terrorist, and I wish more of America could understand that...
Posted by s0m31john 9 years ago
s0m31john
Debate 5000 get.

Ha, we have GETs now.
Posted by yarnedia 9 years ago
yarnedia
"Islam is a faith. Faith is irrational, specifically, it is the abdication of rationality in favor of uncritical acceptance without evidence"

Ah ha, good point!
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
I can't find any definition of Islamic fundamentalist that includes loopy and/or irrational."

Islam is a faith. Faith is irrational, specifically, it is the abdication of rationality in favor of uncritical acceptance without evidence

Loopy may not be as easy of course :D
Posted by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
CiRrO: perhaps you should have a go debating Brian on this?
Posted by CiRrO 9 years ago
CiRrO
Oh come on Con, you could have easily won if you actually tried. O well, Pro wins for this round.
Posted by yarnedia 9 years ago
yarnedia
"Islamic fundamentalists are by definition irrational and loopy" - Thaddaeus

I can't find any definition of Islamic fundamentalist that includes loopy and/or irrational. I voted PRO.
Posted by saz917 9 years ago
saz917
I think Thaddeus has a very skewed view of Muslims. My father is a Muslim and half of my family is Arab. They are not hateful terrorists. I have been around Muslims, (in and outside of America) some of them fundamentalist, my whole life and I have never once met one who wanting to kill another person. In fact, the Qu'ran strictly forbids killing. Some of them have a low opinion of America, but none of them want to bring harm to our country.

And illegally occupying another country does make you the bad guy.
Posted by yarnedia 9 years ago
yarnedia
"You know what she means Rezzealaux." - Im_always_right

I think what Rezzealaux is saying is that if Blondesrule502 really knew Muslims enough to know their views on terrorism, she would refer to them as Muslims, not Islams. I think that is a reasonable point.

Does it sound like I know a lot of Mexicans if I say: "I am friends with many Mexicos and the majority do not support illegal immigration"?
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by yarnedia 9 years ago
yarnedia
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by Jase_the_Ace 9 years ago
Jase_the_Ace
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by emjayjohnson3279 9 years ago
emjayjohnson3279
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by HistoryNotHisStory 9 years ago
HistoryNotHisStory
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by gahbage 9 years ago
gahbage
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by SchinkBR 9 years ago
SchinkBR
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by The_Devils_Advocate 9 years ago
The_Devils_Advocate
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by LakevilleNorthJT 9 years ago
LakevilleNorthJT
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
Thaddaeusbrian_egglestonTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03