The Instigator
DonaldTrump
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Zaradi
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Donald Trump is a Sith Lord

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Zaradi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/23/2015 Category: Funny
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,637 times Debate No: 78019
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (19)
Votes (1)

 

DonaldTrump

Pro

This debate will determine whether Donald Trump is really a dark lord of the Sith. I will argue that he IS, whereas my opponent will argue that he is not. First round is for acceptance only.
Zaradi

Con

Accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
DonaldTrump

Pro

I will start off with some definitions.

Definitions


    • Sith- ancient kratocratic organization wielding the dark side of the Force, typically using crimson lightsabers and attempting to achieve great power.
    • Kratocratic- government by those who are strong enough to seize power through force or cunning.


Arguments
    1. Donald Trump wishes to achieve great power- One of the objectives of the Sith is to overthrow the weak, take its place, and rule with absolute unobstruction. Donald Trump, as everyone is aware of, is running for president of the United States- the highest position of power in the government. Donald Trump has taken many jabs at our current leadership, as well as other weaker candidates such as Lindsey Graham and Rick Perry. He is attempting to tear down the weaker candidates and take the position of ultimate power.

    1. Donald Trump hates Mexicans- Donald Trump's criticism of Mexico and their immigrants have been the source of much controversy. Sith lords despise their enemy, the Jedi. The Jedi are wielders of the light side of the Force. They are peaceful and pacifist. Donald Trump's asinine claims about Mexican criminals being "rapists" and "murderers" are akin to the Sith's attempts to criminalize the Jedi near the fall of the Old Republic.

    1. Donald Trump wears Sith garments and command a legion of soldiers- Donald Trump has been observed wearing traditional Sith cloaks, and has been seen commanding armies of Stormtroopers. This guarantees his connection with the Dark Side. [1][2]


Zaradi

Con

The definitions my opponent uses are vague and unsubstantiated. I propose alternate definitions.

Sith Lord: Sith Lord was a title that was conferred on members of various Sith Orders who had both considerable knowledge of and strength in the dark side. (1).

With that, it's worth noting that Pro has the Burden of Proof. The one making the positive claim that goes against the status quo (i.e. that Donald Trump is a normal human being) has the burden to substantiate their claims. So before I go through and respond to his individual claims, I'll make a list of the reasons why it's hard to believe that Donald Trump is actually a Sith Lord:

1. Donald Trump has shown no instance, or given any evidence for us to believe, that he can actually use the dark side of the force. As this is a prerequisite to being a Sith, much less a Sith Lord, it's on Pro to give us evidence that he can actually wield the force.

2. There's no evidence to believe that Donald Trump owns a light saber. Possessing a lightsaber is a key attribute of a force-wielder, and it's usually never absent from their person. If he owned one, we would know of it. Therefore, it falls on my opponent to show him possessing and being able to wield a lightsaber.

3. Those seeking to become a Sith Lord, per tradition, had to train and pass the Sith Academy course on Korriban, which consisted of various brutal tests and trials for Sith to overcome.(1) This places a few burdens on my opponent to prove: first, that Korriban exists in the first place, second that Trump has actually visited Korriban to enroll in the Sith Academy, and third that Trump actually successfully completed the Sith Academy and became a Sith Lord. Anything short of this means that Trump cannot be a Sith Lord.


With that, let's go to my opponent's claims.


"Donald Trump wishes to achieve great power." - A few responses to this:

1. So does every other politician. Unless my opponent is claiming that every politician in history was a user of the Dark side of the force, this claim means nothing.
2. This doesn't even mean he's a Sith Lord. By Sith beliefs, this matches literally every single Sith in existence, from the lowely apprentices to the highest ranking Sith Lords and officials. This does nothing to distinguish where in the organization Trump ranks.

"Donald Trump hates Mexicans."

First, reject the assumption that Mexico is the Jedi. Border wars and drug violence seems to indicate that Mexicans are anything BUT peaceful or pacifists.

Second, turn this against him as Trump has more dealings with Jedi than he does with Sith. When you hear that the Jedi are peaceful and pacifistic, what country would instantly come to your mind? Mexico, with their drug wars and crime? Or mother-f*cking SWITZERLAND, with absolute neutrality and a hate for conflict and violence? Since Trump for sure has Swiss bank accounts (2), he has more positive interractions with Jedi than my opponent would lead you to believe. This leads us to the conclusion that it's far more feasable for Trump to be a Jedi rather than a Sith.

"Donald Trump wears Sith garments and command a legion of soldiers"

First, that's hardly a legion of soldiers. That's barely more than a platoon.
Second, those are hardly Sith garments. That looks like what imabench would wear to a kinky office orgie.


As such, there's no reason to believe that Trump is a Sith Lord. Rather the opposite, I'm of the belief that he's a Jedi Knight who deals with peaceful swiss bankers.


Sources:

[1] - http://starwars.wikia.com...
[2] - http://www.gobankingrates.com...


Debate Round No. 2
DonaldTrump

Pro

DonaldTrump forfeited this round.
Zaradi

Con

Extend my arguments
Debate Round No. 3
DonaldTrump

Pro

Rebuttals
"Donald Trump has shown no instance, or given any evidence for us to believe, that he can actually use the dark side of the force. As this is a prerequisite to being a Sith, much less a Sith Lord, it's on Pro to give us evidence that he can actually wield the force."
  • Here's the problem with this statement. The sith never displayed their power in a public area. Take Darth Plageuis for example. He, to the common person, was a banker; he never let his true identity become apparent to all but a select few (namely his Jedi adversaries and his apprentice). Darth Sidious is another example. To the public he was known as Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, the benevolent leader of the Republic. His ability to wield the dark side of the Force was never revealed until he attempted to subdue Anakin Skywalker. The sith believe in secrecy and surprise; if the Jedi were aware that someone such as the Supreme Chancellor was a Sith Lord, they would have acted and taken him down.
"There's no evidence to believe that Donald Trump owns a light saber. Possessing a lightsaber is a key attribute of a force-wielder, and it's usually never absent from their person. If he owned one, we would know of it. Therefore, it falls on my opponent to show him possessing and being able to wield a lightsaber."
  • Not all Sith Lords wielded lightsabers. Darth Sidious in his original appearance never used one, he only used Force lightning. In the Dark Lord Trilogy, he states that "the Sith had grown beyond the use of a lightsaber and they only continued using them as an insult to the Jedi more than anything else."
"Those seeking to become a Sith Lord, per tradition, had to train and pass the Sith Academy course on Korriban, which consisted of various brutal tests and trials for Sith to overcome."
  • The Sith academy on Korriban became a mess of ruins by the time of the Clone Wars, only serving as a tomb for the Sith Lord Darth Bane. Donald Trump would not have had to attend the academy, as he was not even alive when the academy was in existence. Sith lords such as Darth Tenebrous, Plageuis, Maul, Dooku, Sidious, Vader, and more were brought up much after the academy's demise.
"those are hardly Sith garments"
  • Dark cloaks were the mark of the Sith, and his cloak as shown was inspired by Darth Vader, who had similar pauldrons and a cape. Many Sith however did not adhere to these garments, such as Darth Malak, Darth Sion, or Darth Talon; saying that Donald Trump's attire aren't Sith garments is unjustified.


One last thing, Donald Trump DOES posses a lightsaber, as seen here [1]

Sources
http://i60.tinypic.com...

Zaradi

Con

Extend the three pre-requisites I outlined that Pro had to meet in order to have a chance at proving that Trump is a Sith Lord.

Extend the first reason saying that we've been given no reason to believe that Trump can actually use the force. He claims that Sith never use their force powers in public and keep them hidden, but we're talking about the status quo here. People using the force just isn't a thing here. If even one person had any idea that Trump could potentially use the force, especially with the media attention surrounding a potential GOP nominee, then the twitter-sphere would explode in "TRUMP IS A JEDI WTF #mindblown". This doesn't exclude his aides and secretaries, would be closest to him and would potentially witness such an event. Since no such occurance has happened, we have little reason to believe that he can. It's not belief until proven that he can't, rather it's disbelief until proven that he can.

Extend the second reason saying that we have no reason to believe that Trump has a lightsaber, and since this was the essential piece of any force wielder, Sith Lords included, without one we have no reason to believe that it's true. He gives two responses: first that not all Sith Lords wielded lightsabers and second, one helluva dank MS Paint drawing.

Responding to the first, this is just factually inaccurate: even Darth Sidious used a lightsaber when fighting Yoda in Episode Three (see youtube video, start at 2:07) ;

And even if he's proving that Darth Sidious's weapon of choice was force lightning, he still *possessed* his lightsaber. His quote even concedes it. Being able to wield the lightsaber required use of the force[2], meaning that Pro has to provide this as evidence that Trump can use the force. Without it, it's impossible to affirm the resolution.

In response to the second picture, damn that's some fine MS Paint work. Make that into a .gif now and you might have me convinced. /s

Then extend my third reason saying that he would've had to attend the Sith Academy on Korriban and pass it's trials in order to become a Sith Lord per the cannon of Star Wars lore. If pro can't prove that Trump ever attended then he can't be a Sith Lord.

He says that Korriban was in ruins by the time Trump was born, and there were a bunch of other powerful Dark Jedi who never attended. But you can turn this in my favor: if the Academy on Korriban was in ruins before Trump was ever alive, then it's impossible for him to be considered a Sith Lord under the Sith's hierarchy. He never makes any kind of warrant for why all the Dark Jedi he listed are actually Sith Lords. I have the canon on my side here, in order to be officially considered a Sith Lord, you had to graduate from the Sith Academy. Trump never did so per Pro's own concession. Hold him to this and negate straight off the bat.

And as a random note about the clothes:

That's literally describing every five year old boy's Halloween outfit. Not every five year old is a Sith Lord. Extend my response that the "outfit" describes as depicting Trump as a Sith Lord is more befitting of imabench at a kinky office orgy. It doesn't make Trump a Sith Lord.

But also, extend the turn I make earlier about how Trump is more likely to be a Jedi as per his association with other Jedi banking consultants in Switzerland than he is a Sith Lord. He makes no response to this at all, hold him to this drop and don't let him make any new arguments against it since he had the chance to address it and doesn't. If I'm showing you compelling evidence that he could be a Jedi rather than a Sith, then you negate the resolution because then Trump wouldn't be a sith lord.


Conclusion: Pro's not doing enough work to show that Trump could use the force, much less is he a Sith Lord. I'm also extending off compelling evidence that shows us that, if he could use the force, then he's far more likely to be a Jedi Knight than he is a Sith Lord, which Pro entirely drops. I'm winning this debate straight-up.


Sources:

[2] - http://starwars.wikia.com...;

Debate Round No. 4
DonaldTrump

Pro

DonaldTrump forfeited this round.
Zaradi

Con

I guess extend all arguments and vote con.

#TrumpForJediCouncil2016
Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by frenchmoosetwo 2 years ago
frenchmoosetwo
This debate reminds me of one of my own...

http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
-RFD-

R1- Basics/ Acceptance from Con

R2- Most of Con's arguments are based on assumption and opinion, no facts. Con argues that a) "Donald Trump wishes to achieve "great power" Yet, this would mean all politicians and candidates would be a Sith Lord.
b) "Donald Trump hates Mexicans" Again, based on assumption and opinion. He has no proof nor had provided any statements from Donald saying he despises Mexicans.
c) "Donald Trump wears Sith garments and command a legion of soldiers" Pros sources do not prove anything. Exhibit A, is of a toy plastic man. The picture doesn't even say that this is Donald Trump. Exhibit B is also false. Donald is not wearing the proper attire to be a Sith. He is wearing a casual black jacket. Sith Lords wear a black robe with a hood and are usually caring a life savor, this picture lacks those details meaning he isn't a Sith Lord.
Con argues that his opponents statements are lacking proof and evanescence. Pro's statements are bases merely on his own opinion.

Con FF R3.

R4- Pro attempts to rebut Pro, he ultimately fails. Con argued that there is no merely evidence of Donald being a Sith Lord, Pro argues that we can never know who is a Sith Lord, so that could mean anyone is a Sith Lord? He also contradicts his position when he says "Here's the problem with this statement. The sith never displayed their power in a public area. " So this would mean that nobody knows if a Sith Lord even exist, especially Pro.

R5- Pro FF round 5

Con easily looses because all of his arguments was based on assumption and opinion, no proof. Con even argues that as well.
Posted by stargate 2 years ago
stargate
This is a good debate.
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
OMG! YES! YES! YES!

This is amazing...roflmao...
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
That's the best MS Paint work I think I've ever seen.
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
LOL that's unfortunate.
Posted by DonaldTrump 2 years ago
DonaldTrump
I missed my arguments for round three by SECONDS. God dammit.
Posted by lol101 2 years ago
lol101
Good point.
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
I think when someone starts calling Mexico the land of the Jedi, that seriousness kind of left the building.
Posted by stargate 2 years ago
stargate
I think he gave up XD.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
DonaldTrumpZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.