Donald Trump would be a bad president
Debate Rounds (5)
I believe that Donald Trump would be a terrible president, and would make the US poorer, weaker and in general, the laughing stock of the world. I think that his claim to 'make America great again' is preposterous, because America is already great.
Trump has called for a wall to be built to keep illegal immigrants out. Trump proposes to make Mexico pay for the wall because they export their crime and poverty to the United States via illegal immigration. Many Americans have been killed by these illegal aliens and the lives of their families have been destroyed. Mexico also publishes pamphlets of how to illegaly immigrate to the United States, and this is the reason why they must pay for the wall. The wall is estimated to cost about 17 billion dollars. I am sure that Con is going to argue how Trump is going to make Mexico pay, and my answer comes directly from Trump's website- "Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards " of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore."Along with the proposal of the wall Trump has proposed to deport the illegal immigrants. Coming to the U.S. Illegally is in violation of the law, and the law cannot be bended for anyone. I simple way to make the illegals leave to to triple the number Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers. Currently we only have about 5000 ICE officers that do the lion's share of the work compared to the Los Angeles Police Department which consists of 10,000 officers. Also ICE officers should accompany local gang task forces to apprehend and deport illegals participating in street gangs.This not only reduces the number of crime but also gets rid of the illegals. Another way to get rid of illegals is to defund federal grants from sanctuary cities which number 300 over the entire nation.These cities harbor illegal immigrants, meaning they have laws enforced where the ICE cannot arrest illegals even if there is evidence. These are only some of the ways listed on Trump's website.
Pro-Trump-Contention 2:(Veterans Administration Reform)
Mr. Trump is completely pro-veteran. He wants to fire the corrupt and incompetent VA executives that let 300,000 veterans die waiting for care.The Trump Plan Will:
"Increase funding for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), traumatic brain injury and suicide prevention services to address our veterans" invisible wounds. Service members are five times more likely to develop depression than civilians. They are almost fifteen times more likely to develop PTSD than civilians. This funding will help provide more and better counseling and care. More funding will also support research on best practices and state of the art treatments to keep our veterans alive, healthy and whole. With these steps, the Trump plan will help the veteran community put the unnecessary stigma surrounding mental health behind them and instead encourage acceptance and treatment in our greater society.
Increase funding for job training and placement services (including incentives for companies hiring veterans), educational support and business loans. All Americans agree that we must do everything we can to help put our service men and women on a path to success as they leave active duty by collaborating with the many successful non-profit organizations that are already helping. Service members have learned valuable skills in the military but many need help understanding how to apply those skills in civilian life. Others know how to apply those skills but need help connecting with good jobs to support their families. Still others have an entrepreneurial spirit and are ready to start creating jobs and growing the economy. The Trump plan will strengthen existing programs or replace them with more effective ones to address these needs and to get our veterans working.
Transform the VA to meet the needs of 21st century service members. Today"s veterans have very different needs than those of the generations that came before them. The VA must adapt to meet the needs of this generation of younger, more diverse veterans. The Trump plan will expand VA services for female veterans and ensure the VA is providing the right support for this new generation of veterans.
Better support our women veterans. The fact that many VA hospitals don"t permanently staff OBGYN doctors shows an utter lack of respect for the growing number female veterans. Under the Trump plan, every VA hospital in the country will be fully equipped with OBGYN and other women"s health services. In addition, women veterans can always choose a different OBGYN in their community using their veteran"s ID card."
Pro-Trump Contention 3: (Anti-Establishment)
Donald Trump is the anti-establishment candidate. He is self funding his campaign along with countless small donations from the every day person. He is not being influenced by the banks or the globalists who care nothing about you and only themselves. Hillary Clinton is the one owned by all of those people. This man will do nothing for the elites and will do everything he can for the average citizen.
Pro-Trump Contention 4: (2nd Amendment)
Trump will protect and defend the 2nd Amendment which was established by our Founding Fathers to prevent a tyrannical government. The left wants to take away the guns from law-obeying citizens even though criminals get their guns either illegally or from family members. The government is becoming more and more corrupt, and a Hillary Clinton Presidency will enlarge the corruption. Now they want to take away our guns. Donald Trump also supports the Mental Health Care Reform to try to prevent more tragedies caused by guns.
Pro-Trump Contention 5: (Pro-Military)
Donald J. Trump will make the American military stronger. Our Navy is smaller than it has been since 1916 and our Air Force is smaller than it has been since 1947. We are using parts from plane graveyards for our fighter jets. Our military is simply depleted and that is what protects the country. Currently we are being disrespected by China in the South China Sea and the Iranians are pestering our ships. They have zero respect for us. What are be going to do? If we show them our military strength, they will think twice before disrespecting our President and the nation in general.
Looking forward to your rebuttals... And please try to provide facts and sources with your arguments, as your arguments are extremely vague.
I agree that illegal immigration can be a problem. However, there are more Mexicans leaving the US than entering. In fact, the number of Mexicans caught entering the US illegally in 2014 dropped to 230,000, the lowest since 1971. Trump is exaggerating the threat posed by immigrants. Also, to call Mexicans 'aliens' is dehumanising. To understand the problem, you need to understand the minds of the people crossing the border. Much of the time, they are living in poverty, and are trying to get a better future for them and/or their children. In their situation, many Trump supporters would also do the same as them. Plus, even if they were a major threat, a wall would not be the way to go. Throughout history, border walls have failed, because people will just go around. The ancient Chinese built the Great Wall to keep out invaders, who went around and conquered China. In World War 2, the French had a wall called the Maginot Line, which the Nazis went around to conquer France. Even with a wall covering the entire border, which would be hideously expensive, people would just go around around in another way, by tunnelling under the wall
On the topic of veterans, I agree with you. One of the good policies Trump has is his stance on veterans. We agree on one thing at least, which is a good sign.
True, Trump is anti-establishment. But is that necessarily a good thing, when he is being influenced by someone like himself? So Trump's economic plans will be good for the US? Just on the issue of debt, Trump would increase debt 26 TIMES MORE than Hillary Clinton, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, which is non-partisan. Trump wouldn't help the average citizen; he sometimes doesn't even pay his workers.
As for the issue of gun control, it's a myth that guns can protect Americans from tyranny. Maybe once it could, but not in the age of tanks and planes. Gun owners could put up a spirited resistance, but they wouldn't win. At the heart of the matter, guns are DESIGNED to kill people, so there should be tighter controls. I live in Australia, where there is gun control. In 1996, there was a mass shooting in Port Arthur, Tasmania. It killed 35 people. Afterwards, the Prime Minister introduced gun control, and it worked. From 1979 to 1996, there were 18 mass shootings. From 1996 to 2015, there were NO mass shootings. I think the evidence is pretty clear.
There are a few issues with the military argument, which I will rebut. 'Our navy is smaller than it was in 1916': size isn't everything. North Korea has the world's largest submarine fleet, but their navy is very weak, because they chose quantity over quality. The USAF is also smaller than in 1947, but that is because they had just fought a world war. The 1947 USAF didn't have F-22s, so it's once more the issue of quantity over quality. To have the military on a total war footing would be monstrously expensive. We may be using parts from plane graveyards, but why make new parts when you can reuse another part. That's just being efficient.
The US military is not depleted at all. The military has 10 aircraft carriers, 5 times more than Russia and China combined. The military budget of the US is as large as the next 8 countries, 5 of whom are close allies of the US (Saudi Arabia, Britain, France, Japan and Germany. A Carrier Strike Group has more firepower than most nations. Across the world, the US is still overwhelmingly powerful.
Excuse the pun, but China and Iran (especially China) are just testing the waters. China is not disrespecting the US, they are trying to test the resolve of the US. The West should stand up to China, but also be prudent, for China is nuclear-armed. Trump would make America a laughing stock, to the Europeans at least. The Europeans generally didn't respect the Bush administration, but they really think Obama has improved America's image. In their eyes, Trump would reverse all of that.
Trump is also an appeaser to Putin. He has said he would lift sanctions on Russia over their annexation of Crimea. He has even said he wouldn't come to the aid of NATO members unless they made payments, which is breaking Article 5 of NATO. In saying that, he opens the door to Russian annexation of the Baltic States. The biggest player in NATO is the US. Without them, what's to stop Russia? This is why Trump would be terrible for NATO.
Once again, thanks for accepting the challenge, good luck and I look forward to your response.
It doesn't matter if Mexicans are leaving because not all of the illegal immigrants are Mexican. About half of them are Mexican. As for the numbers dropping, it clearly states in your source that the reason for that happening was the recession in 2008. Consider this-- An exaggerated threat it still a threat. The problem is that this threat CAN be stopped--America just doesn't choose to enforce its existing immigration laws because of the current Obama Administration. I never called Mexicans "aliens." I called illegal immigrants "aliens." If they break the law, and there are no consequences, that offends everyone who follows the law and specifically immigration laws. My opponent criticizes my language as dehumanizing, but it is not by defenition--Alien: "a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization." It does not dehumanize them. I agree, I would do the same thing, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to take a huge gamble instead of legally coming to the U.S.. That does not mean I would expect to get citizenship. Remember, A nation with out a border is not a nation and a nation that doesn't enforce its laws is not a nation. If the people are struggling, why don't they fight for rights like we did. As for the Great Wall of China, it simply wasn't along the entire border. The northern tribes could simply just go around it as Pro has mentioned. The wall will be on the border with Mexico. With the Maginot Line, it was only on the border with Germany. The Germans got into France via Belgium.The line wasn't along the entire border. Let's look at an actual wall that ran coast to coast--Hadrian's Wall--in what was known as Brittania at that time. It was built to protect the Romans from the barbarians in the North, and it worked up until the sacking of Rome. It doesn't matter how expensive it will be, Mexico is paying for it. Digging under the wall is going to be hard as well. There is going to be a solid foundation that needs to be penetrated and the USCBP has developed underground motion sensors which are specifically designed to prevent underground tunnels.
My opponent seems to forget that the 2nd Amendment also allows the formation of militias,most commonly know as the National Guard. Guns are the basic weapons that are used by these people along with other military supplies. Again, banning these guns stops the National Guard of each state from protecting its citizens. Gun owners along with the National Guard of the states can stop a tyrannical central government.
I don't understand what Pro means when saying "But is that necessarily a good thing, when being influenced by someone like himself?" Please clarify next round. The report that you speak of does not factor in the business incentives Trump will create by lowering taxes. It's common sense that lower taxes will increase debt, but Trump's economic plan helps small businesses grow and decreases regulations on them. My opponent gets a source from Quora which is pretty unreliable, but nevertheless, the man probably didn't do an adequate job. If I came and put a wood floor in your house and there are loose boards and holes, I wouldn't give you all of the money. The terms have to be followed. The person claims that suing him will be expensive, well, why not get his friends and get the media? Easy solution right there. Trump would be pressured to do something. Comparing Australia to the United States is an apples to oranges comparison. A report showed that the temporary gun ban in your country had no effect on gun homicide rate. Along with that, the gun control in Washington D.C. actually increased gun homicide rates. Many more facts along with these on this website.
Size is a majority. Why do you think a majority of battles are won with the greater number of soldiers? I can give you a clear example how quantity has beat quality in WWII. German Panzer VI Tiger vs Sherman Tank. The Tiger was the most quality tank ever created during that time. However, the shear number of Sherman Tanks created by the Allied Forces became their bane. Sometimes Quantity can be the best Quality. Why would you sell countries brand new jets with brand new parts instead of using them for ourselves first? Reusing parts from jets that were used in the Korean War? Are you serious? It doesn't show efficiency, it shows weakness and stupidity. We are selling brand new jets to other countries, but are using spare parts for our own. Protection of the United States has to come first, and strong military will do just that.
If we have a higher military budget, then why are our planes old? My opponent forgets the Air Force and the Army. The Air Forces of China, Russia, and North Korea, are greater than the U.S. A Carrier Strike Force does have power which is a good thing, and that is why there need to be more. It's true that we have 10 right now. But not all of them are deployed at one time! In 2015, only 5 carriers were deployed the the Middle East didn't have a carrier there. The carriers are spread too thin, and reducing that number which the left proposes will only harm us. It's pretty obvious that our Army is smaller than India or China, so why is it getting smaller and smaller? You need the Army to defend the land.
They aren't "testing" waters as Pro claims. They are building a military air base in international waters. Iran is circling our boats making dangerous maneuvers. "Test the resolve of the U.S.?" What is that supposed to mean? Are we going to kick them out of there and start WWIII, then that is dumb. The President of Philippines cursed at Obama, and China didn't give Obama a red carpet welcoming unlike other World Leaders. Please provide evidence as to how Trump would make America a "laughing stock."
Putin complimented Trump, and he complimented him back. He didn't say he would lift sanctions. He said he would look into the situation. Why should be protect a country that doesn't even contribute to the organization? We are in 20 trillion debt, there is no need to spend excess money in protecting other countries for free. Paying an equal share is also part of the NATO deal...That's the exact point. If we aren't there who is going to defend the small countries? It will force them to pay their fair share, making the organization fair. He wouldn't be terrible for NATO, he would just be stronger on NATO countries. By the way, Wikipedia is not a reliable source to use.
Awaiting your response. I hope to change your viewpoint of Trump. If the debate was Clinton vs Trump, you would have an easy choice. Nice to see an Australian. I'm only 15, and you're from Australia, I'd say it's a pretty fair debate. As always, good luck!
'Alien' tends to hold negative connotations, but that's a minor issue.
The gun ban in Australia may not have reduced gun homicide, but it lowered the number of mass shootings (defined as the killing of 4 people, excluding the killer).
The Shermans defeated the Tigers because the Nazis were thinking tactically (short-term) rather than strategically (long term). Germany couldn't mass produce the Tigers. The Tiger tank won battles, but it was too expensive to make. Whereas the US has the industrial depth to mass produce quality products.
The US has more aircraft than China, Russia and NK combined.
The NATO members don't need to pay. They have to spend 2% or more on their military, making the Baltic states model members. I think Trump meant a payment to the US, but I'm not sure.
The worker who wasn't paid wouldn't have been able to get his friends to help him much, because Trump would have more money than the rest of them combined.
I said I was going to explain the statement "But is that necessarily a good thing, when being influenced by someone like himself?". I meant he has said and done terrible things to other people (which will be covered next).
I don't think Trump would care for the American people, seeing as he has an extravagantly furnished private jet (the photo didn't work, so just search for images of the plane's interior). I know that it's fine to use one's wealth to make yourself comfortable, but I don't like flaunting of wealth (like marble basins on a PLANE when porcelain would suffice).
Trump has also said and condoned terrible things about women. There's the infamous 'grab them by the p*ssy' statement. He's allegedly walked in on Miss Teen USA contestants while they were changing. He's said that if Ivanka wasn't his daughter, he'd be dating her. He's even allowed someone to call Ivanka 'a piece of a**'. These actions and words are grossly outdated, and objectify women.
Trump has also mocked the disabled, which I, as a sufferer of muscular dystrophy (which confines me to a wheelchair), find somewhat offensive, to put it mildly.
A president should be a good example to his people, which Donald J. Trump is definitely not.
I stated a definition. It may hold negative connotations in your opinion, but it doesn't for me.
My opponent concedes that gun control is ineffective as it doesn't reduce gun homicide. If it reduces mass shootings, then why hasn't it reduced gun homicides?
The Shermans defeated the Tigers because there were more of them. The Germans did have many opportunities to win WWII, but the leadership was flawed, currently like it is today as with Obama. If the Germans weren't dumb enough to attack Russia, then the could easily calm the western theater down. Then they could focus on the Russians. Nevertheless, this is not a history lesson; my opponent concedes that quantity can beat quality, regardless of the fact about expense.
Your source about aircrafts doesn't lead me to the facts. But I will say this. History has said that the side with the greater army a majority of the time wins. It's only stupid to have a smaller Army than countries that are a threat. Mr. Trump is also a huge supporter of the VA Reform. It helps our military veterans.
Yes, Mr. Trump wants NATO to pay their fair share in the organization--2%.
That's why I said, go to the media. You and I both saw how much criticism he got over the accusations even though they were false. They would have media support, and legal team would be willing to accept the case for large profits.
The plane is his property. He can do as he chooses. Everyone strives for a good looking interior. It's his money, he can do whatever he wants with it. It is not even related to the fact that he doesn't care about Americans.
The comment was "locker-room talk." He was a private citizen at that time, and was talking to a friend about women. If there is evidence that he has actually done this stuff, then that's a problem. Not to mention the fact that he apologized to his wife and the American people like a true Christian. The accusations that came on him have largely been debunked. It was all a hit-job by the left-wingers, or for their own benefits. About the Miss Teen USA, your source states that 3 of the ladies in the room at that time with the accusers said that this incident never happened. Again, there is ZERO evidence of these incidents even happening. The comment about him dating her was a joke, if you watch the video sir. Again sir, it's a joke. Can I prevent you from talking? No I can't.
I am deeply sorry to here about your condition sir, and I wish you well.
Mr. Trump was imitating a groveling reporter. He personally didn't know Mr. Kovaleski, and even if he did it was 30 years ago. Not to mention the fact that Mr. Trump is 70 years old. He could've simply forgotten. I'm pretty sure Trump wasn't mocking Mr. Kovaleski, who he hasn't seen for 30 years. Not to mention the fact that he has met with hundreds of reporters throughout his career.And why would he knowingly insult disabled people in the first place? He was basically imitating a liar who happened to be Mr. Kovaleski.
Mr. Trump was a private citizen like you and me before he decided to run to change the country. If Mr. Trump was a career politician, this would be a completely different story. It's not fair for you to judge what he said 15 years ago, when he wasn't even connected to politics.
I await your final thoughts.
The plane is his property, so he can do what he chooses. But a man like Bill Gates would have donated much of the money spent on it to charity. I'm not saying Trump has an obligation to donate his money to charity, but there are many people less fortunate than him who could benefit from it.
The comment is not ordinary 'locker-room talk'. Trump made the quote 'They let you do anything when you're a star.' This indicates that he might have experience. Trump also said 'I did try to f*ck her. She was married.' I think this also serves as evidence for sexual harassment, not to mention that he tried to have an affair.
Plus, even if it is 'locker-room talk' (and athletes have come out saying talk like that doesn't happen in locker rooms), that doesn't make it any more acceptable. It just shows that there's a culture of misogyny in society. Apologising to the American people only partially takes back the problem. As for the accusations, I'll let them rest for now, in the tradition of 'innocent until proven guilty'.
I judge people on how they behave when they don't think they're in public. When in private, someone's true personality is revealed. That's why I am disgusted by Trump's comments.
Thank you for your condolences. It means a lot.
For argument's sake, I will assume Mr. Kovaleski was lying. Trump should have only made fun of what Mr. Kovaleski said, rather than his appearance. You shouldn't make fun of things that people can't control (such as appearance).
I think it is fair to judge Trump. You should judge people by what they say in private as well, because that's the truest reflection of their personality.
Note: I have to go on a school camp in a few days (no wifi). If you're unable to reply by the end of the weekend, would it be OK if we could just put our concluding statements in the 5th round? Otherwise, I won't have enough time to write an answer. Thank you in advance.
Thank You for the correct link. The link shows that the fleet strength of China compared to the U.S. alone is more. North Korea, China, Russia, along with India have a much greater military with those terms. Aircraft carriers are important as I've stated earlier. But our current methods of patrolling are spreading them out too more. A reduction of a carrier or two could destroy our patrolling power.
The first quote isn't evidence at all. I can say "I might kill you." Does that indicate that I've killed someone before? I highly doubt it. The second quote says "try." What does that mean? If he actually did do what he said, then why would he say "try?" In short the quotes are very vague and cannot be interpreted as evidence that he has committed sexual assault. There is no proof that he has. "Locker-room talk," or "guy talk." It's pretty obvious that athletes would say it doesn't happen. If it did, they would be in trouble too! Mr. Trump has more women at executive positions than men. That clearly shows he has respect for women. I agree with you that it wasn't a good thing. He apologized to his wife and the American people. He's being held to a much higher standard. He was a private citizen at that time. It's not fair to bring that up. Nevertheless, I agree that it was bad, but what more can you ask from him?
Mr. Trump has done the same actions to Ted Cruz and a 4-Star General because they were lying as well. Please watch the video.He wasn't imitating a disabled reporter. It was another hit-job my the main-stream media. I hope that cleans that up.
I agree, you can judge a person from private positions. However, it's not fair for him to be given the same standard as a politician, as he was a private citizen like you and me at that time.
I will place my final thoughts and observations in the final round. Good Luck, and thank you for this wonderful debate!
America is still the largest economy on the planet. It's a hub of science and innovation, with more Nobel prizes than any other country. As the first modern democracy, the US is still the envy of many countries in the world. Immigrants come not to China or Russia, but to America, a country traditionally tolerant. While far from perfect, America is truly a great nation.
In 6th grade, I went on holiday to New York, arguably the greatest city in the world. While there, I noticed that New York is a vibrant melting pot of cultures. After my holiday ended, I realised that perhaps New York is great partly as a result of being a tolerant, vibrant melting pot. The same applies to America.
I await your conclusion, so good luck and thank you for this fascinating debate.
1.) My opponent challenges my language of illegal immigrants even though it's legal by defenition.
2.) My opponent uses unreliable sources like Wikipedia.
3.) My opponent concedes that walls can be effective if they are designed correctly
4.) My opponent concedes that Trump will be good for Veterans
5.) My opponent uses a source that cites circumstantial evidence
6.) My opponent concedes that gun control is unreliable and ineffective
7.) My opponent concedes my argument about the 2nd Amendment allowing militias which are effective.
8.) My opponent uses apples to oranges comparisons and still cannot defend his argument
9.) My opponent concedes that the United States is not being respected right now
10.) My opponent concedes my argument about NATO and the countries paying their fair share.
11.) My opponent concedes that quantity can beat quality
12.) My opponent concedes that America is not prioritizing its military by giving other nations brand new planes while ours are old.
13.) My opponent creates an argument that Trump shouldn't furnish his plane even though its his money.
14.) My opponent concedes that there is ZERO evidence that Trump committed sexual assault.
15.) My opponent concedes that athletes would obviously say it doesn't happen in the locker room.
16.) My opponent concedes that Trump wasn't imitating a disabled person.
17.) My opponent concedes my argument about sanctuary cities
18.) My opponent concedes that Mexico CAN pay for the wall
19.) My opponent concedes that the American military is smaller than nuclear capable countries combined.
20.) My opponent concedes that Trump is funding his campaign and not being influenced, and therefore will not be influenced by special interests and lobbyists in D.C.
Voters please take these observations into consideration. Thank You for reading and I hope you have a nice day.
Con, thank you for this wonderful debate, and I hope I have changed your mind about Mr. Trump. I can understand where you get your argument from--the mainstream media--but here I am to expose those lies. Once again, thank you and good luck in future debates!
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