The Instigator
passwordstipulationssuck
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
frankfurter50
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Donald Trump

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 481 times Debate No: 107745
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

passwordstipulationssuck

Pro

I'm going to use this post to state my position but you may forward arguments if you want. I hold the position that the Trump Presidency has so far been a success, and a benefit to the country.
frankfurter50

Con

Oh, I accept. Absolutely. The president is a racist and a mysogynist.
Debate Round No. 1
passwordstipulationssuck

Pro

I will begin with a list of the most notable accomplishments of the Trump administration, then I will address my opponent's premises.

First and foremost is the destruction of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. (1) for years, President Obama referred to the issue of ISIS as a generational problem. However, after President Trump took office and freed our military and our generals to take the fight to ISIS in full force, ISIS' power was broken in mere months. while the greater struggle for an ideological victory may be ongoing, the destruction of those entrenched in their dogma and ideology is a necessary and crucial step.

Next is economics, while it would be erroneous to suggest that the market has not taken a hit in recent days, it's imperative that an observer regards the market not in terms of mere points but in terms of proportionality. When one analyzes the current market trends, it's paramount that we realize that the market dropping a thousand points is largely insignificant compared to the increase since President Trump took office. While the President does find himself in a precarious situation regarding market drops, it's not yet a cause for significant concern. moreover, the new tax bill has caused an increase in monetary gains across the income spectrum in the form of increased wages, copious bonuses, among other upturns.

Now in regard to my opponents assertions, it is counterfactual to suggest that the President has imposed any objectively racist policy since taking office over a year ago. the policy proposals often misconstrued as racist are that of his hawkish immigration proposals. Firstly, securing the border is not a racist policy. Enforcing our laws is a necessary and just action. When man establishes a government, they lay it's foundation in certain principles and organize its powers in such a way that will best secure their happiness and security. That, of course, by virtue of the inherent contract between citizen and government, entails the enforcement of laws laid in the foundation of said principles. The exercise of sovereignty in enforcing borders is the ultimate expression of these laws and principles and is in no way indicative of the disdain towards certain peoples or ethnicities.

In regard to the allegation of misogyny, while I imagine my opponent and I are in agreement about the inexcusable conduct of the President in regard to certain instances prior to becoming President, it cannot be denied that the president has upheld the principle of meritocracy by employing numerous women within his administration. A true misogynist would not allow women into these high positions. If my opponent should require elaboration into the list of women within the administration, I would be more than happy to provide one.

(1) https://www.theguardian.com...
frankfurter50

Con

I think that Trump was not meant to win. I shouldn't have started this debate- your republicans just can't swallow anything- but I'll try my best to stay cool under the collar and reason with you to the best of my ability.

Obama didn't try to ruin ISIS because if they get threatened they'll come over here and kill us. Donald Trump the bottled Dump has the temper of a five year old and the reasoning of a two year old, and by threatening ISIS they're going to come over here and kill us all. Trump hates Muslims- and he regards every Muslim as a member of ISIS, which, of course, is an erroneous statement. During the Obama years, Muslims felt safe here. Black people felt safe here. He was the first black president and having a black president was long, long overdue. We elected that white bigot into office- most countries hate us now. They're not going to put up with him. He's the living son of Satan.

(I don't mind if I lose, at least I'll have tried. It would be nice to win, though).

The market may be doing fine- Wall Street and whatever. But poor people are feeling the reign of a republican president big time. Rich people don't deserve to be rich- we should be giving money to poor people. That makes sense. Poor people can't get money because the rich people have all the money. Trump is a poopy millionaire and he should not have won. I like Hillary. We should have a woman in the white house. Maybe Michelle Obama. She's nice. Or maybe Bernie Sanders. I like Karl Marx. he was a genius. I'd also rather live in communist Russia than McCarthy-ist America during the Cold war. I'd go over the Berlin wall- backwards. "increased wages and copious bonuses" Might be nice if you have a job. Somebody without a steady job won't give two bits about what Trump does for people with a job. He's not helping anybody- just those middle class finks and those independent monsters.

Securing the border is a racist policy. He said that Mexico had to pay for it. They shouldn't have to pay for it. It's his deal. Also, he's implying that those in Mexico have lower personalities than us. Why can't THEY put up a wall against US if they want to? He also ignored the fact that a wall is unnecessary and expensive- the border is already heavily guarded and covered in barbed wire fences, except in spots with mountains. It was that way even back during Obama. A big wall would have to stretch thousands of miles and it'd drain our national treasury. he could give that money to poor people. Why would he, though? He's a repubbo and he hates poor people.

He likes grabbing women by the genitalia. that footage was leaked before the election and he still won. He should not have won. It doesn't matter if there are women in Congress or the Supreme Court- women have been in those positions for a long time. What matters is that he stopped a woman from becoming president- the first woman to ever be nominated for president- and that's a sin that he's going to burn in Hell for. He's an unholy monster. My arguments aren't ethically sound, I'll give them that, and I might be crass and rude, but my emotions toward the poop little noodle carrot monster are unimaginable and I await the 2020 election with great impatience.
Debate Round No. 2
passwordstipulationssuck

Pro

My opponent begins with an assertion that cannot be referred to as anything but completely and utterly asinine. That we shouldn't take the fight to an enemy and attempt to destroy them because they might get mad and attack back. In case it wasn't indubitable, ISIS has been attacking and murdering Americans and others indiscriminately for years. Furthermore, they cannot come and kill us all if their power has been irrevocably shattered which it is. We do however need to be circumspect in regard to evacuating the middle east and leaving another power vacuum which would be a repeat of Obama's mistake. Regarding my opponents next point, President Trump has never claimed that all Muslims are members of ISIS which would of course be preposterous. However, there can be no denial that the Middle East is a breeding ground for ideas and ideologies that are contrary and incompatible with Western ideas and ideologies. Therefore, we must be wary from importing a multitude of unvetted people from these places without ensuring that they will harbor and propagate our ideas of equity and emancipation. It is also an undeniable truth that the lives of Black people are better under President Trump that under President Obama. For example Black unemployment hit its lowest ever point under President Trump rather than under President Obama. (1) Next, President Trump is not a Bigot. He has imposed no objectively bigoted or racist policy since taking office as I outlined in my secondary post. Next my opponent suggests that other countries hate us. Which is nothing new. the governments of Europe have always looked down on Americans despite the superiority of our economy, military, innovation, and essentially everything else. But like it or not they will put up with us because without us, the UN has about as much bite as the League of Nations did, and they are dependent upon our wealth and influence. Furthermore, what are they going to do about it. They have to put up with him.

My opponent claims that rich people don't deserve to be rich. this blatantly false claim is backed up by no reasoning. If you take a risk and build a fortune then you deserve what you built for yourself. It isn't the place of the government or the rest of society to decide that you are required to have your wealth stolen from you and given to people who were unwilling to take the risk you did or had a worse idea. Next, my opponent states that poor people can't get money because the rich have it all. This utterly asinine assertion completely neglects the fact that you can't become rich by stuffing your money in your mattress. you need to invest in your business and thus create jobs, and unlike in communism, the business owner then employs people to run the business and pays them. which in turn allows him to build his business. My opponent then states that Trump is a poopy millionaire and should not have won. I"m going to skip over this point because I can flow my previous argument. My opponent then proceeds to state that we should have elected Hillary because she is a woman. However, the gender of the candidate should be largely irrelevant to their candidacy. I would vote for a female candidate if she met my criteria to be President. Hillary didn't even come close, she is overtly corrupt, unlikable, and doesn't uphold American values. Bernie Sanders had no economic feasibility and his policies would have bankrupted the country. He also states that Karl Marx was a genius, he was not. His economic plan was terrible and evil as it necessitates government tyranny and as a result has led to the deaths of innumerable innocents. He states that he would go over the Berlin Wall backwards. Which of course ignores all of the reasons why people in East Germany were constantly trying to escape and were executed if they tried. this trivialization of the plight of those who suffered under communism is indicative of the depths of my opponents ignorance of the policies he propagates and their implications. My opponent states that President Trumps economic improvements only helps the "middle class finks" you really hate the proletariat for a communist... aside from that, the unemployment rate in the United States is 4.1 percent as of October of 2017 according to the Bureau of labor statistics so even if my opponents statement is true, then he is helping 96% of the population which includes much of the lowest class. Furthermore, with the tax cuts to corporations, many have announced that they are returning many of their jobs to the U.S. which would of course, reduce the unemployment rate.

He states that securing the border is racist because Mexico would have to pay for it. Mexico won't have to pay for it. I thought is was a mistake to make that claim on the campaign because it wasn't feasible. President Trump wants the money to be allocated in addition to a DACA deal. A wall is not unnecessary, curtailing illegal immigration is imperative and is well worth the cost.

My opponent then claims that President Trump likes to grab women's genitalia. This was very nearly a deal breaker for me with Trump. While the footage was only him making so called "locker room talk" it still wasn't a very good thing to say. However, there is also footage of Hillary laughing about defending and exonerating rapists and shutting up rape victims. both candidates failed to meet my character criteria but Trump was the lesser of two evils in that regard. my opponent denigrates my argument regarding the fact that a misogynist would not appoint women to high office by stating that he stopped a woman from becoming President. Hillary got in her own way. she was a terrible candidate, unlikable and corrupt. drowning in scandals. A better female candidate would have had a much better chance. But a person should not be elected president solely by virtue of their gender. On a less formal note, I think you'll be very disappointed in 2020 given the current behavior of elected democrats.
frankfurter50

Con

I begin with an asinine assertion because for the purposes of this debate I prefer to behave as asininely as possible because a civilized debate cannot be conducted near conservatives. They do not believe in cold hard logic and they don't understand that trickle down economies are the worst possible kind of economy there is. Our symbol might be that of a donkey, but you're the real asses. I've talked about Trump so many times that I've gotten bored of it. I'll keep going, though. I enjoy seeing how you respond to facts. Also, I like how you make finding a job sound easy for homeless people. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be any homeless people. there are, so evidently something is wrong with our current system.

Hmm. that's irrelevant. Let's move on. I'm being immature, I am, but I've got to spice up this bland debate somehow, give it a few kickers and some zing. We should not threaten ISIS. If we remain neutral, and don't acknowledge their existence, they'll turn their attention elsewhere. If we say we're going to nuke them, they will try to nuke us. If an atomic bomb is fired at you, would you want to hide under a table, or stand up and try to fight it? Seriously, it's a well placed metaphor. It might seem hard for your first-grade level mind to comprehend, but peace is a better option than war. I'd prefer to stay peaceful with ISIS, not threaten them so they blow us all to kingdom come.

ISIS hasn't been murdering Americans for years. Very few members of ISIS even live here in America. Most shootings are done by Americans. You're interpreting this as a case of black and white, you repulsive bigot. It's not. We're just as evil in their eyes as they are in ours. Instead of threatening them with warfare, we could point out that killing people isn't nice and try to sway them over to our side with reason. If nothing works, THEN we might go extreme. But they are the smallest threat to America right now. They're a little ragtag team of weirdos out in a desert, in the middle of nowhere. We don't need to worry about them.

Your mind has been stirred up by the fearmongering put in play by the media. You believe in chemtrails too, don't you? I know I'm engaging in several logical fallacies right now. I'd rather be correct than win.

Trump wants to put up a wall that stops Mexicans from entering. That's racist. He's a racist person. he hates China. Chinese people are nice. He's racist.

I
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!

You evil fiend.
Debate Round No. 3
passwordstipulationssuck

Pro

My opponent begins by stating that he opens with an asinine assertion because he wants to behave as asininely as possible. the definition of asinine is "extremely foolish" we should not uphold the ideas of someone who propagates extremely foolish ideas knowingly. My opponent then goes on to state that supply-side "trickle down" economics is the worst. However, his Keynesian economics only works if you assume that the wealthy just shove their profits into their mattresses. which of course is preposterous since it's impossible to become rich in that manner. it cannot be done. you use your profits to expand your business which creates more jobs for more people which then allows you to make more products to be purchased by more people so you make more money and the cycle continues on and on. Supply-Side is in every way better than Keynesian economics.

There is always work to be done. With the exception of those who are mentally ill, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to find work. it may not be good or easy work, but enough to buy a meal and eventually rent a small house if you find another person to help make the money. For those who are mentally ill, I would suggest a return to the days before deinstitutionalization where private institutions can help them.

if you want to continue adding "zing" go ahead. It can only harm your professionalism. My opponent continues his dedication to being as asinine as possible by stating that ISIS will just leave us alone if we don't attack them. Let's not forget who started this. They attacked us first, they drew first blood. now, it's up to us to make sure they can't hurt people ever again. If an atomic bomb is coming at me, I could try to fight it, but I would fail because it's an atomic bomb. I can't fight a nuke. much in the same way, if we keep the pressure on ISIS they won't be able to fight us. Let's also set the record straight. You won't get any argument from me over the choice between peace and war, but the only guaranteed way you can have peace is surrender. My opponent's policy of neutrality in this kind of war is surrender. And we as Americans will sacrifice for peace, negotiate for peace, we will not surrender for peace now or ever. We have the duty as a bastion of liberty to never allow the enemies of freedom to dictate the course of life on this planet.

My opponent suggests that ISIS hasn't been killing people for years. False. there have been 140,000 large-scale terrorist attacks since 1970 www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_AmericanTerrorismDeaths_FactSheet_Oct2015.pdf

While it's true that the terrorists don't pose an existential threat to the United States as a nation, they are certainly an existential threat to individual Americans. And it is for that reason that the government has an obligation to defend citizens against threats foreign and domestic, and that includes terrorists.

No Frankfurter, I don't believe in chemtrails. logic dictates that claim isn't true. do powerful world leaders breathe air? yes. therefore it is illogical to believe that they would poison themselves. If anyone has bought into fearmongering by the media it's you with the Trump hysteria.

Securing the border isn't racist, sure some chinese people are nice but that doesn't mean we should make trade deals that benefit them instead of us.

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you communist bastard.
frankfurter50

Con

Oh, heck. Why did I ever accept this dumb thing?

Trump is a racist, and a mysogynist, and Hillary should have won, and come 2020 the little demon is going to be kicked out.

Trump is a dump. Kick him in the rump. Barack and Michelle are super duper swell. Trump's hands are tiny, his voice is whiny.

Bill and Hill, we need you still.

I suppose I lose, but I'm getting bored.
Debate Round No. 4
passwordstipulationssuck

Pro

First, I've already addressed why Trump has not imposed any racist policy, therefore, showing that this is not a racist administration. second, I've already made my position clear on his treatment of women, but he has shown to uphold meritocracy in that regard. Next, he likely won't be kicked out in 2020 because 1. the candidates Dems are looking at are god awful, 2. they keep backing themselves into corners and repudiating their own issues like they did at the state of the union address. 3. they continue to filibuster any government spending plan causing not one but two government shutdowns which have harmed their public image. 4. They continue to press intersectionality instead of taking fiscal responsibility from Republicans after that terrible bill they are passing showing the incompetence of both senate parties while reflecting positively on the president. I would be optimistic about the midterm elections if I were you, but not 2020.

My opponent concludes with a nice little poem but no arguments.

My entire last post was dropped.
frankfurter50

Con

trump is a racist and a mysogynist. he hates women. His reign of terror is a detriment to the country. He insulted both China and Russia during his State of the Union speech, even though they're our allies, he threatened Kim Jong Un with atomic war so we're all going to die and if we don't impeach him soon North Korea is going to blow us all to the sky and you sick republicans will be laughing up the other end of your sleeve. That's all I have to say. Judges, make sure your votes are fair and unbiased. I might lose, I know, but I shouldn't have debated this.
Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by frankfurter50 3 months ago
frankfurter50
Right- it's a fact which can't be easily researched. Keep going, though. You'll figure it out eventually. What's his name?
Posted by passwordstipulationssuck 3 months ago
passwordstipulationssuck
when I google it all I get is a bunch of results about popeye.
Posted by frankfurter50 3 months ago
frankfurter50
No, it doesn't advance my argument in any way. Do you know his name, though?
Posted by passwordstipulationssuck 3 months ago
passwordstipulationssuck
I don't know. I'm not very comic savvy. if you think if forwards your argument in any significant way, why not just say it?
Posted by frankfurter50 3 months ago
frankfurter50
What's the name of Mr. Fadewell's fat bearded henchman in E.C. Segar's 1929 comic strip epic "Bernice the Whiffle Hen?" The one with no rheumatism?
Posted by passwordstipulationssuck 3 months ago
passwordstipulationssuck
1. people don't accept communism because it's a terrible idea. 2. people are receptive to new ideas. if they weren't it would be impossible to ever start a business which is ridiculous. 3. No, i've never tried communism but I've observed its results. and they are terrible.
Posted by passwordstipulationssuck 3 months ago
passwordstipulationssuck
we should debate socialism after this. should be fun.
Posted by frankfurter50 3 months ago
frankfurter50
What if people can't accept new ideas and the guy ends up back on the street?

Why can't people accept communism as a new idea?

What's the name of Mr. Fadewell's fat bearded henchman in E.C. Segar's 1929 comic strip epic "Bernice the Whiffle Hen?" The one with no rheumatism?

Have you ever tried communism out?
Posted by passwordstipulationssuck 3 months ago
passwordstipulationssuck
Then they come up with an idea, take a risk and try to make the money by getting people with quote unquote "normal" jobs to buy their product. that's how capitalism works. Then if their idea pans out they too can be rich.
Posted by frankfurter50 3 months ago
frankfurter50
Capitalism is a system which encourages inequality. It's a part of its premise. I can't wait until Karl Marx's day of reckoning comes to pass, and the bourgeois fall to their stubby fat little knees and the proletariat rise to create a shining new utopia.
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