The Instigator
tala00131
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
justin.graves
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Dose God exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 570 times Debate No: 31606
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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tala00131

Con

Round one for acceptance only.
justin.graves

Pro

I accept. I think you mean "Does God exist?" right?
Debate Round No. 1
tala00131

Con

I have broken down my argument into four parts. One Improbability, two Stupid design, three the problome of evil, four God as a crutch.

Number one improbability: There is no evidience for God, one could give you alot of semi evidence such as the cosmogical argument but there is no physical evidence. Not only is there no evidence for God but it is highly improbable that such a being exists. Think about it someone that is so complex that he can hear all of our prayres at once and read our thoughts ect, has to be much more complex than us therefor making his existence very improbable. Complex beings only come from evolution, complex beings do not simply always exist.

Number two Stupid Design: Most spots in the universe would kill life instintly, pepole say well the forces of nature are just right for life thats just stupid go look at the volume of the universe where you can't live. Most planet orbits are unstable, the star formation is inefficent, we are on a one way expanding universe to nothing, all of the other planets in our solar system are dead. Now let me move on to earth. Volcanos, tusnamis, earth quakes, floods, lightning kill 150,000 pepole each year, there is so much disese, 99.9% of all species to ever live went extinct, it took 3-5 billion years to make multi cellular life.

Number three the problome of evil: There is so much suffering and evil going around the world right now, as we speek one child is dieing every four seconds. 21,000 children around the world die each day. Most children will die before there fith birthday. These are just a few examples of all of the suffering that is going on around the world. If you believe in a good God than you are faced with the problome of why there is so much evil in the world, then pepole say there is so much good in the world and God must have a plan for all of this suffering. If you believe in an evil God then you are faced with the problome of why there is so much good in the world and pepole say well I am sure that God has a plan for all of this good in the world. So either you believe in no God or you believe in an evil God or you believe in a good God. If you believe in no God you are not faced with any problomes, if you believe in a evil God you are faced with the problome of why there is so much good in the world, if you believe in a good God you are faced with the problome of why there is so much evil in the world. Givin all of the evil in the world it is unlikely that a good God exists. Givin all of the good in the world it is unlikely that an evil God exists so it is unlikley that God exists.

Number four God as a crutch: Many pepole today rely on God as an emotinal crutch. For example someone with disies will use God as a crutch to keep them happy. But even thousonds of years ago pepole did not understand how anything work so they said that it must of been Gods that caused everything and created everything. Now most of us know different we know that the sun is a fiery ball of gas and not a chariot riding accross the sky. Not knowing is scary so pepole three thousond years ago had to think that God created everything. Religion was mans attempt to explain everything but now we have science, we do not need religion. Science dose not know everything such as the origin of life but they are working on it. We know that all species are decendents of other species. Three thousond years ago pepole thought that lighting was caused by God because they did not know what lighting was so they thought God caused it. My conclusion for this argument is that pepole thousonds of years ago believed in God because they did not understand anything.

Conclusion: I have given four good arguments to think that God dose not exist, if my opponent is to try to say that God dose exist he must first tare down all of the four arguments that I have presented and then give his own arguments to say that God exists.

http://www.globalissues.org......

http://www.youtube.com......#
justin.graves

Pro

First off, I would like to take this opportunity to espouse my views of God. 1. I am a Protestant Christian. 2. God is the all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent, omnipresent Being that controls the universe. 3. God created the universe. 4. God created man. 5. Man sinned, causing the Fall into sin ands separation from God. 6. God sent Jesus, His Son, to die for the sins of man.

OK, now onto your contentions:
1. "Improbability": To say that there is no evidence for anything is a logical fallacy. Anywhere you look you can see any evidence for anything based on your view of truth. I am going to give three evidences that God exists.

A. The Fine Tuned Universe: The universe is perfectly fitted for life. For instance, if the strong nuclear force in the universe was changed by just 2%, hydrogen would fuse with diprotons instead of the usual helium and deuterium. That would cause the death of every star in the universe, killing all life (Cosmic Coincidences; John Gribbin, Martin Rees; 1989). The same applies for all laws of physics in the universe. Change it a little, and the universe collapses and can no longer support life.

B. Mutualism: There are some animals that work together in a way that could not have evolved and must have been created. Let us look at the Blue Striped Wrasse and the Oriental Sweetlips. The Oriental Sweetlips is a carnivorous fish with teeth. These teeth have to be cleaned often, or they would rot and fall out. The Blue Striped Wrasse swims into the mouth of the Sweetlips and cleans its teeth. Usually the Sweetlips would eat the Wrasse, but for some reason, it doesn't. The Wrasse gets fed and the Sweetlips gets its teeth cleaned! For an unexplained reason this natural predator does not eat its natural prey. Both of these organisms would have had to defy survival of the fittest and basic instinct in order for this to happen. There are literally hundreds of examples of mutualism around the planet.

C. Morality: Let's look at a basic train of thought: -Nazis killing millions of Jews is wrong-if it is wrong, then there must be an absolute morality- if there is an absolute morality, it must be objective- God is objective while man and nature is not- if that is true, then God must have created morality- therefore, God exists.

2. "Stupid Design": This is an easy one.
A. There are some places in the universe man will never go to, therefore God did not need to make them able to support life.
B. We have never actually seen a star form, therefore the theory of star formation is inefficient
C. The universe will not expand to nothing and 99.9 will not go extinct. God will return to claim His own before that happens. Plus, that is a physical impossibility according to science that the universe will continue to expand.
D. I will leave this part for your third contention
E. If the God of the Bible exists, then evolution is not true, so multi-cellular life did not take "3-5 billion years."

3. "The Problem of Evil": When God created the world, it was perfect (Genesis 1:31). After that, man sinned. That destroyed the goodness in the world. That is why evil exists. God didn't create evil, we did. Every time you lie, steal, hate, lust, covet, etc. you continue the cycle of sin and suffering.

4. "Using God as a crutch": People use drugs, alcohol, sex, food, parties, and other things as a crutch after a problem. That doesn't mean that they do not exist. As for your "God of the Gaps" idea of a crutch, we don't know everything about the universe. We still don't know exactly how gravity works. We don't know exactly how the universe came into existence. In fact, we really don't know much of anything about how the universe works! As the gaps grow bigger, so does the need for God, not the other way around.

Wow, that was big. You pretty much had me give all of my contentions in the first question, so I will re-state them for clarification:

A. The Fine Tuned Universe: The universe is perfectly fitted for life. For instance, if the strong nuclear force in the universe was changed by just 2%, hydrogen would fuse with diprotons instead of the usual helium and deuterium. That would cause the death of every star in the universe, killing all life (Cosmic Coincidences; John Gribbin, Martin Rees; 1989). The same applies for all laws of physics in the universe. Change it a little, and the universe collapses and can no longer support life.

B. Mutualism: There are some animals that work together in a way that could not have evolved and must have been created. Let us look at the Blue Striped Wrasse and the Oriental Sweetlips. The Oriental Sweetlips is a carnivorous fish with teeth. These teeth have to be cleaned often, or they would rot and fall out. The Blue Striped Wrasse swims into the mouth of the Sweetlips and cleans its teeth. Usually the Sweetlips would eat the Wrasse, but for some reason, it doesn't. The Wrasse gets fed and the Sweetlips gets its teeth cleaned! For an unexplained reason this natural predator does not eat its natural prey. Both of these organisms would have had to defy survival of the fittest and basic instinct in order for this to happen. There are literally hundreds of examples of mutualism around the planet.

C. Morality: Let's look at a basic train of thought: -Nazis killing millions of Jews is wrong-if it is wrong, then there must be an absolute morality- if there is an absolute morality, it must be objective- God is objective while man and nature is not- if that is true, then God must have created morality- therefore, God exists.


And if you wouldn't mind, please, please, please use spell check. It would make reading what you typed so much easier.
Debate Round No. 2
tala00131

Con

tala00131 forfeited this round.
justin.graves

Pro

And... forfeited. Did my opponent just expect me not to have an answer for these questions? Or was it the multiple debates on the same subject that he simply copied and pasted his argument to each? Yeah, so anyways...

Vote Pro!

Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by justin.graves 3 years ago
justin.graves
By the way, your links did not work.
No votes have been placed for this debate.