The Instigator
Dragonballz
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
WMdebate
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Dragon Ball Z is the best anime show ever created.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
WMdebate
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,228 times Debate No: 24977
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Dragonballz

Pro

I will let my opponent begin the argument.

Rules:

Use proper grammar.
You're only allowed to pick one show or series.
If statistics are used, provide links.
WMdebate

Con

I want to thank my opponent for instigating this debate.

The question posed by this debate is whether Dragon Ball Z is the greatest anime show of all time. I will argue and prove that Dragon Ball Z, while a good show, is not the greatest anime show of all time. (I assume this means vanilla DBZ, not DBZ Kai, DB or DB GT which were not mentioned by PRO).

In order to prove that point, I will choose one show that is better than Dragon Ball Z.

My chosen show is Cowboy Bebop, by Sunrise studios.

A. First, Dragon Ball Z’s weak points:

1. Too many filler episodes. DBZ, in its initial form, is an extremely long show riddled with filler episodes. These filler episodes make the show so long that it ends up being 291 episodes in its original form yet “Dragon Ball Z Kai” the high definition re-cut version of DBZ which only shows the important episodes is only 98 episodes long! Does that mean that 193 episodes of the original were just pointless filler episodes that could be cut out? The super long episode recaps at the beginning of each episode and the “coming up on DBZ” segments at the end further add to the cheap filler nature of the series. It gives the series the air of a giant money grab by the studio.

2. Attacks take forever. Another problem is that even in the occasional non-filler episodes, DBZ battles involve attacks that often take multiple episodes to execute, with tons of footage of the characters powering up and building up a huge amount of energy AND NOTHING ELSE going on for the entire episode (except perhaps other characters commenting on how awesome the power up is).

3. Stupidity driven plot. There are too many instances of “stupidity” on the part of the main characters drawing out fights when they could have easily shortened the fights with early full power kill shots and saved a lot of people’s lives. It’s like characters make poor decisions just so that DBZ can have more filler episodes of characters powering up. This is especially evident in the Buu saga where, at multiple times, the main characters could have beaten their respective rivals quicker had they just gone full power.

If someone was headed for you with a baseball bat and you had a gun, would you spend 40 minutes trying to beat the guy with your fists and talking him to death before firing your gun? If so you would probably be dead, and natural selection would have taken place. Examples: (1) Goku v. Maijin Vegeta, Goku could have gone SS3 at the time, but no he just got his butt kicked by Vegeta’s SS2 form, (2) Trunks and Goten taking forever to get into the freaking hyperbolic time chamber and basically allowing Buu to kill everyone.

4. Just use the spirit bomb already! Why spend 100 episodes fighting with every other move you have when all you had to do was fire a spirit bomb.

5. Bad character development. There are a lot of romantic couplings in DBZ but the show does a poor job of showing how these couples develop. They go from “characters meet” to “characters are married and have a kid” with nothing showing how this happened. This kind of character development (if you can call it that) is especially jarring in the case of Bulma and Vegeta’s marriage which comes out of nowhere and is never really explained. How could a strong independent, good hearted (mostly), woman like Bulma fall for a planet killing murderer like Vegeta who once threatened to kill even her?

6. Inconsistent writing and editing. Things like the moon being destroyed twice (Roshi then Piccolo)? Wtf? Where did the second one come from? Did they forget?

7. The Over the top physics in DBZ make all of the fights pointless. For example, at “power level 300” (a very low power level in DBZ) a person is said to be able to destroy a planet with his ki blasts. Why then would the villains, who all exhibit power levels higher than 300 and who often want to destroy the world, not just fire an energy beam at Earth and kill all of the protagonists in one blow and just move on?

8. Bad animation. There are a lot of characters “standing still and talking” and recycling the same fight shots over and over. Basically the animation seems aimed more at saving money than looking good. Quantity over quality.

9. DBZ music is, for the most part, terrible.

10. Finally, the absolute biggest problem with DBZ: Goku’s Japanese voice. Goku in Japanese is voiced by the same old woman that voiced him as a child in Dragon Ball. That’s right, a grown muscular man sounds like a baby and is voiced by an old woman. DBZ may be the only show in which the American dub is actually stronger than the original Japanese voice acting.

B. Cowboy Bebop is better than DBZ:

For those that don’t know it, Cowboy Bebop is a science fiction show set in the somewhat distant future (which still kind of looks old timey and like the world we live in) where the main characters are bounty hunters travelling through the solar system. It combines the western, jazz and science fiction genres in what turns out to be an amazing and unexpectedly brilliant mix. Cowboy Bebop is art in motion.

1. Better writing. The writing in CB is top notch, with excellent dialogue, amazing characters and a really tight, consistent plot in each episode.

2. Better setting. The world of Cowboy Bebop is rich in history and detail and yet blends quietly into the background as the action of the story and characters which inhabit it take center stage. This is the kind of setting that the old Star Wars trilogy (not the prequels though) used to have, where it’s in space, but it a well-worn, and used kind of space where people behave like actual human beings trying to make a living on the frontier. You really feel like this could actually be what the future looks like.

3. Better character development. Each character gradually shows us more of their past and their future over the course of the series. Relationships are actually shown to develop and mature over the course of the show such as Faye and Spike’s sexual tension and Spike’s mysterious past relationships.

4. Better visual style. Show has an amazing visual style which contrasts sharply with DBZ’s more childish concept art. The coloration is also much better with many more color details on the characters. The characters here are what anime characters used to look like in the good days of Japanese animation (before moe and giant eyes).

5. Smoother and overall better animation. There is very little recycling of animation sequences in the show and the animation is just plain better.

6. Better fights. The fights in CB are smooth, fast paced and always leaves you wondering what’s going to happen next, unlike DBZ they do not use nearly as many repeated animation sequences, but actually show realistic combat moves with fresh animation for every punch. Spike’s aloof and friendly personality really contrasts with his amazing martial arts skills. And in this show, if a character has a gun, they’ll use it, so watch out.

7. Excellent music. The entire show is built up around the combination of music with setting with drums solos and jazz riffs pumping up the action of the battles and chase scenes (as opposed to Dragon Ball Z’s contrived “screaming power ups”).

8. An amazing ending to the series that leaves you wanting more. Spike Spiegel’s classic solo charge into the Red Dragon Crime Syndicate is probably one of the coolest action set pieces I’ve ever seen. On par with great action movies like Die Hard or Pulp Fiction.

9. No filler episodes. Unlike in DBZ, Cowboy Bebop doesn’t go out of its way to make as many episodes as possible, rather the episodes are each very strong and the show has a quality over quantity approach. Almost the exact opposite of DBZ.

If you are going to pick a show that really represents the best that anime has to offer, you go with the high quality, well written, mature show with awesome characters and music and not with the show that has over 100 filler episodes. That’s why Cowboy Bebop is the better show.

Vote Con!

Debate Round No. 1
Dragonballz

Pro

Dragonballz forfeited this round.
WMdebate

Con

Looks like it's going to be a forfeit win for me.

Kind of dissapointed my opponent has not shown up to defend the honor of DBZ.

I want to post a video to show off the stylish fighting of Cowboy Bebop.

http://youtu.be...

As you can see from the animation is much smoother than in DBZ, even though they use more colors and shading per frame. The music is a really nice touch in this scene. The fighting is also much more realistic and exciting, with the real potential for getting shot as the characters are not practically invulnerable like in DBZ.

I hope my opponent can show up for one of the other rounds...

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 2
Dragonballz

Pro

Dragonballz forfeited this round.
WMdebate

Con

Well it looks like I'm by myself here... :-(

Anyway, another cool fight from Cowboy Bebop, this is how to disarm someone with just a broom stick lol. Also the lady is really attractive.

http://youtu.be...

Note that Spike's Japanese voice isn't terrible like Goku's... Here is Goku's Japanese voice for those who don't know:

http://youtu.be...

Yes... the horror... Also... nice music :-S

Vote for Cowboy Bebop!
Debate Round No. 3
Dragonballz

Pro

Dragonballz forfeited this round.
WMdebate

Con

Well... there you have it. My opponent is speechless.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Dragonballz 5 years ago
Dragonballz
Yeah just go right in.
Posted by WMdebate 5 years ago
WMdebate
Alright I've got my Round 1 argument ready if you want me to go right in, just let me know if you want just acceptance in round 1 though, I still have a couple of days to post.
Posted by WMdebate 5 years ago
WMdebate
Question, do you want me to start debating in Round 1, or just accept? Since you said you'd let your opponent begin arguing.
Posted by HumphreyBlackheart 5 years ago
HumphreyBlackheart
Series only, or can I use movies?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
DragonballzWMdebateTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I love DBZ, and would probably have to agree with the resolution. But Pro made no points, and forfeited every round, thus obvious win to CON.
Vote Placed by Cody_Franklin 5 years ago
Cody_Franklin
DragonballzWMdebateTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro got spanked and ran.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
DragonballzWMdebateTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit