The Instigator
SaintMichael741
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BiggTime
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Dragonball Z/GT is Overrated

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
BiggTime
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/11/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,765 times Debate No: 33589
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

SaintMichael741

Pro

Greetings everyone. I recently joined this website and tried to make this argument, but decided to take it down. Now that I have learned a little more about how debates work on this website, I would like to challenge the community to prove to me that Dragonball Z and GT is not as overrated as I believe. I am open to changing the way I think about it, if you think you have the chops for it :)
Here are the rules:
-First Round Acceptance
-No New Arguments in the Last Round
-Anything from Dragonball Z and GT may be used as evidence, and putting links up to certain scenes is not only permitted but encouraged.
-The Dragonball Z movies may also be used.
To be clear, I will argue the Dragonball series is overrated, while my opponent will be arguing that it is worth all of the hype. Good Luck!!!!
BiggTime

Con

ill will gladly take you upon your challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
SaintMichael741

Pro

Thank you for taking me up on my debate. I wish you good luck Biggtime. I would like to start by launching into seven key points regarding the many weaknesses of this anime.

1. TOO MUCH EXPOSITION!
The biggest problem with Dragonball Z that even hardcore fans complain about is exposition,. Characters love to stop fighting and boast about how strong they are. Frieza tells us that Namek will explode in five minutes, which is later changed to seven. However, over the span of countless episodes, the fight stretches to the three hour mark (http://tvtropes.org...). This is a typical problem with anime as a whole, like Naruto. Dragonball Z is one of the worst offenders because very little in terms in character. All of the boasts from the villians and heroes do nothing to establish the these character's personalities.

2. Nearly Every Character Is Useless Except Goku.
Goku ultimately defeats every major villian. All of the other characters barely do anything to help Goku to ultimately use his spirit bomb and win the fight. Tien dies to slow down cell only for only a minute, Vegeta's arrogance allows Cell to reach perfection, Gohan fails to fully finish off Cell and needs his dad's help. And before someone says "But Krillin died to make Goku a super saiyan!" Krillin didn't know that was going to happen. For all he knew, Goku could have had a breakdown and lost all focus, resulting in Goku's death. Vegeta is used twice by villians in order to further their plans (baby and babidi). All the supporting cast does is give Goku sensu beans and then die in order for Goku to win. It becomes harder and harder to like characters when they are all completely disposable and idiotic to the point of detriment.

3. Powers include Beams, Balls, Transformations, and...nothing else.
Let's take a quick look at Bleach and Naruto. Naruto had to use his clones in order to make openings, Soi Fon had to strike her oppenent twice in the same place, Shikamaru could only control shadows, and Ichigo had a hollow mask that gave him strong powers, but only if the mask was still intact. In Dragonball Z, every power is a beam, ball, or transformation that has no real weaknesses. All of the beams and balls were either different colored, different named, or just a different user. The transformations were a little bit better because they had time limits, but in a show where time limits are not clearly respected, they can be bent in order to make a fight a little more interesting. Tension happens in fights when a side has a clear disadvantage, and we root for the side who can turn their disadvantage into a win.

4. Goku turning into a kid at the beginning of GT undermined everything.
GT was a great opportunity to make Goku grab some bench and allow Vegeta and Gohan to get some time in the spotlight. Uub could have been the new star of Dragonball GT. But what was GT about? Goku. Again. Let's think about how this hurts the strength all the cast. We establish Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, etc. are not as strong as Goku. As a kid. If kid Goku is stronger than the entire cast, then why care about everyone else? Also, when Goku went ss4 (which was obviously an adult), they should have kept him as an adult. Many can agree that GT was not nearly as interesting as Z because it didn't try anything new. Goku was still the front runner, Goku was still saving the day, Goku keeps making the rest of the cast boring.


5. Nobody has Clear Weaknesses or Stengths
To really understand this point, we need to understand how American comics operate. Take Spiderman for example. Spiderman has a set of powers that he uses in order to fight crime. Interesting fights occur when these powers aren't enough to naturally defeat his enemies. For instance, the spider sense does not work on Venom or Carnage. The Green Goblin can fly while Spiderman can only swing, giving Goblin an advantage in mobility. Most of all, superheros in american comics do not want to kill the super villians, while the villians don't mind getting their hands dirty. In Dragonball Z, what weaknesses do Vegeta and Goku have? Any shortcomings in stength are cancelled out by either training, transforming, or fusion. Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, etc. do not have any direct problems with their powers. The only thing that they have to contend with sometimes are time limits to these ultimate forms, but theses aren't the same as Spiderman struggling against Venom or Superman struggling against kryptonite and magic (a lesser known weakness of his).

6. Deaths Mean Absolutely Nothing.
Krillen dies four times, Goku three times, Vegeta twice. Many characters die in Dragonball Z only to come back with the dragonballs or some other power. The problem with all of these resurrections is that there is no tension in these deaths if everyone can come back to life and continue to fight even when dead. Keep in mind that during the final fight with Kid Buu Vegeta was already dead. Imagine if when a character dies, they stay dead. Imagine how much more of an impact Vegeta's death to Buu would have been if it was permanent. His final goodbye could have been tear jerking. However, since Vegeta came back, it completely undermined his entire sacrifice, thus making life and death in this anime/manga a complete sham.

7. Gohan is the chosen one? Is he?
From the very start of the show, Goku keeps telling his son that he has the potential to be the next great warrior. This is especially true in the Cell Saga, where Cell is defeated by Gohan in his ss2 form (however, the "Chosen One" still needed his dad to teleport Cell's self destructing body away from the planet). Then from the Majin Buu Saga, everything that Gohan does is a failure. He becomes a superhero (which is almost instantly figured out by Videl), learns a new form "beyond" super saiyan (which fails horribly against Buu), then does nothing of real importance in GT. He does also defeat Bojack. Was the chosen one to defeat Cell and Bojack, but then isn't so chosen anymore?

To conclude my points, Dragonball Z is a sloppy mess. It ignores the rules that it sets for itself and draws out so many conflicts in order to continue to get young children to keep watching. There are much more interesting and deep animes that have more complicated dramas and conflicts that beat any of the beam battle operas that Dragonball Z has.
BiggTime

Con

1.) Too Much Exposition

This is a typical problem with every anime show created. the reason for this is because the animes are created to please the fans of the series. i wouldnt say DragonBall Z is the worst offender of it. The reason the fight extended for so long is fillers thrown in by the producer of the show to make it longer to please fans. These "filler" episodes are actually quite few considering current animes like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach, all of which have "filler" arcs, increasing the length of the show to increasing annoying lengths. In fact Bleach at one point literally stopped in the middle of an important battle between Ichigo and Grimmjow to start a brand new filler arc. The boasting done by the heros and villans is something that is every anime ever created (that involves fighting). for example ( it is quite long so watch after the six minute mark).

2.) Nearly Every Character Is Useless Except for Goku

Not true at all. The issue with your arguement lies in the fact that you are addressing DragonBall Z and DragonBall GT when really you should also address DragonBall. It chronicles Gokus adventures as a child, before he finds out that he is a Saiyan. In DragonBall Goku isnt the strongest Character in the show pretty much right up until when King Piccolo shows up. There were times when Tien was a legitimate contender for who is stronger goku or tien. Master roshi used to be the strongest in the show. in DragonBall every character is vital to each battle that took place. In the beginning of DragonBall Z, if piccolo wasnt there Raditz wouldve destroyed goku and then Earth. In the fight against Vegeta, goku wouldve died if it hadnt been for yajirobe. In the Namek Saga frireza would have killed everyone before goku got out of the healing chamber if it hadnt been for piccolo. Also the other characters were vital in stopping frieza from getting his wish to become immortal. In the Cell Saga, Goku realizes that he cant beat Cell and sends gohan in. Gohan is the one who finishes cell. And goku teleporting cell away did nothing but power up cell. When goku teleports him away to King Kais Planet to explode, cell doesnt die resulting in the loss of gokus, king kais, and the monkeys life (im sorry dont remeber the name). Cell's nucleus is intact allowing him to regenerate again. At the same time while regenerating Cell absorbs goku super saiyan energy and Goku's ability to teleport. He comes back stronger than he already was. Gohan still would have destroyed Cell in battle if he hadnt sarificed his left arm to protect Vegeta who launched his own reckless counter attack against Super Perfect Cell for killing Future Trunks. The Buu Saga was created by the author only becasue of Fan prodding. Many fans didnt like the series ending with Goku dieing and Gohan becoming the Ultimate Warrior (as the author had originally planned). The fans urged the author to write another ending to please fans. that is why the buu saga was created. So it is obvious why goku is the ultimate force in this saga.

3.) Powers Include Beams, Balls, and Transformations.

It is true that this is all that the DragonBall Z had as weapons. But most of the fighting done in DragonBall Z is done by fists. The kick and punch each other. Throw each other into the ground. The Beams, Ball are used as last resorts as it takes up a lot of KI to use. If those dont work then comes in the transformations. in Naruto Shippudden all Naruto ever uses is Rasengan. Different variations of it,yes, but still all of them are Rasengans. In bleach the only move Ichigo has is Getsuga Tensho. He repeatedly uses it over and over and over again. In DragonBall Z it is the same. The learn a couple of beam or ball attacks. then use it as finishing moves when they think the fight should be over. The only attacks Goku knows is Kamehameha and Spirit bomb (he does use Dragon Fist but that is a variation of spirt bomb which just makes goku absorb these attacks). he knows variaitons of Kamehameha, like Super Kamehameha and Warp Kamehameha. But it is one move. he normally puts the beat down on an opponent before finishing them off with Kamehameha.

4.) Goku Turning into a Kid undermined Everything

DragonBall GT was entirely fan based. And honestly it was the stupidest thing done to the series. BUt it was created to please goku fans so he was reverted to a kid and was sent searching for the dragonball (in space) as a refence to DragonBall. it wasnt made to make everyone seem weaker than Goku, it was a ode to DragonBall fans. Also kid goku is only stronger than everybody else because he is only a kid in the way he looks as inherits all his adult powers anyway.

5.) Nobody Has Clear Weakness or Strengths.

Partially true. First of all we are looking at a Japanese Manga. They are written differently as American Comics were a mainly used as Metaphor to the world they lived in at the time (like the x-men facing discrimnation for being mutants, much like the blacks did in the past). Japanese Manga is entirely fictional. American Comics are used to show the weakeness in Humans hence there characters although intially thought to be indestructible have weakness so show that "even the strongest can have weaknesses." Japanese Manga is written as mainly being fictional and for entertainment purposes. Also the Saiyans do have a clear weakness. There love for battle. In the battle against Freiza, Goku has an oppurtuinity to beat Freiza while he is transforming into the his "100% final form" but he doesnt because he wanted to fight him at his full strength even tho King Kai warns him that he could possibly be beat by the 100% full POwer Frieza. Vegeta does the same mistake. Although he utterly demolished Semi-Perfect Cell he wanted Cell to become perfect to fight him at his full strength because of his own love for battle. This caused Cell to Become Perfect which results Vegeta getting demolished.

6.) Death Means Absolutely Nothing

Once Again it is a fan issue. Fans dont like to see there favourtie cahracters die and stay dead. Many of the Chracters that died in the show were meant to stay dead. The only issue was the production house coming under a lot of fire from fans for killing of there favourite characters. Krillin has been a fan favourite since his days as the monk who seeks training from master roshi in Dragon Ball. They killled him off in DragonBall as a reason for Goku to search for dragonballs again (as with the dragonballs you can revive someone who has died, once). When they killed him off against Freiza this time it was a fan issue. they wanted krillin back because they liked him and because he was gokus best friend. Goku actually only dies twice, as he really isnt dead after the fight with freiza hes just in some other planet training. Gokus first death against Raditz is not an issue as he can be revived according to the story line. The second time he died against cell was supposed to be his final life. the fans wanted him back. This is was created by fans not by the author intentionally.

7.) Gohan was the Chosen One

Gohan was the Chosen One. That is why he had multiple times were he showcased his immense poteiential i.e. the attack against raditz, destroying the mountain. The author had groomed him to takeover gokus role as Earth's greatest defender. only one issue. the fans were too attached to goku. That is why goku unnesscarily died against cell for the second time, and that is why gohan was the only ss2 at the time. Gohan is stronger than goku. During the cell saga, even in the buu saga (because Elder Kai's unlock potiental released all his power if he had continued training for the 7 years he didnt train). Gohan was created to takeover the mantle, the fans wouldnt just allow it. they wanted Goku to continue being there, utterly changing what the author had planned to do from the beginning. Which was to replace Goku as the main character of the series.
Debate Round No. 2
SaintMichael741

Pro

I call into question a few of your statements:

This is a typical problem with every anime show created. the reason for this is because the animes are created to please the fans of the series. i wouldnt say DragonBall Z is the worst offender of it.

Yes, it can be argued that Dragonball Z is not the worst offender of too much exposition. Filler arcs in animes undermine everything that the story tries to achieve. However, just because Dragonball Z is not the worst offender does not mean we should forgive it. The number of animes/mangas over the last few years available have greatly increased with the western audience's demand. We should be judging the quality of each anime based on itself, not on the other big shows at the time. I know that the Ichigo vs. Aizen fight was quite offensive in terms of forced exposition, but that doesn't make anything in Dragonball Z any easier to deal with. In other words, just because Dragonball Z commits the same crimes as its contemporaries does not let it off the hook.

The issue with your arguement lies in the fact that you are addressing DragonBall Z and DragonBall GT when really you should also address DragonBall.

I chose to center this entire debate around Z and GT because they are more popular. Honestly, dragonball is not nearly as popular as the other two. That being said, I think that the first series was the best of the three in terms of story.

However, this is an arguement about Dragonball Z and GT being overrated. I do not call into question dragonball.

Gohan is the one who finishes cell. And goku teleporting cell away did nothing but power up cell.
Think about this for a second. If Goku did not teleport him away at that instant, he would have exploded, killing destroying the earth. Gohan did NOT have instant transmission. Thus, without Goku, Gohan would have died in the explosion along with the entire world.

The Buu Saga was created by the author only becasue of Fan prodding. Many fans didnt like the series ending with Goku dieing and Gohan becoming the Ultimate Warrior (as the author had originally planned). The fans urged the author to write another ending to please fans.

Then shame on the author for giving into the auidence so easily. At the very least, make Goku sit out an entire saga.

But most of the fighting done in DragonBall Z is done by fists. The kick and punch each other. Throw each other into the ground.

in Naruto Shippudden all Naruto ever uses is Rasengan. Different variations of it,yes, but still all of them are Rasengans. In bleach the only move Ichigo has is Getsuga Tensho.

Should we really judge Dragonball Z based on Bleach and Naruto? I don't think so. Again, just because the problem exists in the genre does not mean that it should be excused. Yes, Ichigo and Naruto both use the same techniques over and over. The point I was trying to make with Naruto and Bleach is that these powers had limitations and weaknesses. I don't consider getting tired a weakness. The only weaknesses with these beams is amount of energy left in the user's body and aim. In a sense, these beams have the same weaknesses as a gun. Would you say that a gun has a weakness just because it can run out of ammo? Not really. To conclude, the beams do not have weaknesses the way that Shikamaru has with his shadow powers or Renji's bone serpent bankai. The beams do not have an exploitable weakness.


DragonBall GT was entirely fan based. And honestly it was the stupidest thing done to the series. BUt it was created to please goku fans so he was reverted to a kid and was sent searching for the dragonball (in space) as a refence to DragonBall.


So at least we agree GT was overrated and stupid?

Also the Saiyans do have a clear weakness. There love for battle.

When I say weakness, I mean in fighting style. There was a manga/anime called Rurouni Kenshin many year ago. It starred a main character who's fighting style was reading his enemy's movements and lighting fast strikes. His weakness was that he couldn't kill anyone or he would lose grip of his sanity. There we go, a clear weakness and strength. Is Vegeta faster? Is Gohan better at beam battles? Is Goku better with his fists? This is never really made clear. Instead, you have a whole bunch of characters who train all the time without any clear specializations.

Once Again it is a fan issue. Fans dont like to see there favourtie cahracters die and stay dead. Many of the Chracters that died in the show were meant to stay dead. The only issue was the production house coming under a lot of fire from fans for killing of there favourite characters.


Honestly, you make this author sound worse than Stephanie Meyer. This author should have had the balls to stand up for their writing instead of being a welcome mat for their fans

.The author had groomed him to takeover gokus role as Earth's greatest defender. only one issue. the fans were too attached to goku.

So to conclude, it sounds like you are telling me that the willingness for the fans to overrate this manga/anime made it bad? In other words, if there wasn't so many fanatics for dragonball Z the integrity of the show would be intact? The day that a writer allows his auidence to control his art is the day he is no longer an artist. End of story.
BiggTime

Con

I would like to address a couple of your statements.

"However, just because Dragonball Z is not the worst offender does not mean we should forgive it.We should be judging the quality of each anime based on itself, not on the other big shows at the time."

Remember DragonBall Z was made a long time ago compared to shows like Naruto and Bleach. What this proves is the "over" exposition is something that is almost hereditary in mangas especially those of shounen type. BUT the exposition also has its role when addressing fandom. When characters make statements like "This attack can blow up the planet" or things like "I am ten times stronger than" fans use these things to as legitimate points when discussing who is the strongest character in the series. also the reason why the Z characters are so ridiculously powerful stem to dragonball. Yes it is a debate bout whether Z/GT is overrated or not, but i figure this to be crucial. By the end of DragonBall Goku is more powerful than any human should possibly be. he has defeated a variety of villans including outer space beings such as King Piccolo. Goku is much stronger than master roshi who early in the series is strong enough to destroy the MOON. So when the author decides to continue the Series with DragonBall Z Goku's power can only get higher. thats why many character have this ridiculous world ending strength which they like to boast about.

"I chose to center this entire debate around Z and GT because they are more popular. Honestly, dragonball is not nearly as popular as the other two. "

This too is arguable. If you where to say that too western audience DragonBall Z/GT where more popular than DragonBall, you would be right hands down. But in Asia, DragonBall is extremely popular. it is ridiculously popular. i mean if it werent that popular DragonBall Z wouldnt have been made. DragonBall Z is the most popular of the three, but DragonBall in Asia is definetely more popular than GT.

"Think about this for a second. If Goku did not teleport him away at that instant, he would have exploded, killing destroying the earth. Gohan did NOT have instant transmission. Thus, without Goku, Gohan would have died in the explosion along with the entire world."

Undeinably true. But who forced Cell into such a desperate position. Gohan did. Gohan was powerful enough to decimate Cell at any given moment. But the rage that he had against Cell for hurting his friends made him want to play around with Cell before finishing him. Even after Cell returns as Super Perfect Cell after absorbing Gokus Super Saiyan Energy, Gohan is still stronger than him. Then only reason why Cell was about to win that battle was because Gohan sacrificed one of his arms Protecting Vegeta after he attacks Cell recklessly. Also the only reason Gohan steps into battle was because Goku admittedly said that he wasnt strong enough to defeat Cell even in his Full-Power saiyan mode. Therefore had Goku not switched out to let Gohan fight Cell would have killed him regardless.

"The point I was trying to make with Naruto and Bleach is that these powers had limitations and weaknesses.The beams do not have an exploitable weakness. "

The abilities used in Naruto and Bleach do not have clear weaknesses. They have limitations that stems from the user of the technique because the more tired they get or more chakra or reiatsu they use the overall strength of there technique diminishes. Theres is not a Clear weakness in technique. If Shikamaru had Naruto's amount of Chakra his Shadow Possesion can stretch a much longer distance. Does it not remind you of something. DRAGONBALL Z. In DragonBall Z there attacks have no clear weaknesses, but it is limited by there bodies and by how much KI they have. Shikamarus Shadow Powers and Renji's Bone Serpent Bankai are like the KI attacks. The more chakra Shikamaru has he can extend it further and use the ability for a longer duration of time. The More KI a Z fighter has the more beam attacks he can use. Renji's Bankai is the same. If he has a higher reiatsu than his opponents he can use it so it doesnt break when fighting. When he fights opponents with higher reiatsu then his bankai is weak as it keeps getting crushed, but that is the limiation of the one of wields the weapon not of the weapon itself.

" There was a manga/anime called Rurouni Kenshin many year ago. It starred a main character who's fighting style was reading his enemy's movements and lighting fast strikes. His weakness was that he couldn't kill anyone or he would lose grip of his sanity."

Is this not the same as the Saiyans? This is a mental weaknesses. Not a weakness of his technique. Like the Saiyans. The Saiyans possesses a mental weakness. Their lust for battle. It is not a weakness of there technique or body, but a weakness of there mind. The way they are created. Much like Kenshin. Kenshin fighting style does not possess a weakness, but it is his mind that does. He cant kill anyone because his mind restricts it because he does not want to become the Battousai again. Much like how Kenshins opponents take advantage of his weakness (that he doesnt kill anybody), enemies of the Z fighters do the same. Like Semi-Perfect Cell vs vegeta. Cell baits Vegeta into helping Cell attain full-power by exploiting Vegeta's Saiyan lust for battle. P.S. Rurouni Kenshin is one of my favourite mangas of all time. Thank you for addressing it :D

"So at least we agree GT was overrated and stupid?"

Yes, yes we do. I hated GT i thought it was an abomination to the Series.

"Honestly, you make this author sound worse than Stephanie Meyer. This author should have had the balls to stand up for their writing instead of being a welcome mat for their fans."

Quite Frankly your right. Thats what the author should have done, he should just done what he planned. BUT you have to realize by this point DragonBall Z had transformed. It went from being a simple manga that many people enjoyed into a multi-billion dollar franchise. There were thousands of Toys being produced, i recall like 15-16 movies, card games, video games, it was brought overseas, translated, and put on air for Western Audiences. DragonBall Z was essientially the core of Japanese pop culture at the its peak. Therefore the Author was probably pressed by the production house that publishes his manga, and editors, and the head of major companies who were producing all these DragonBall Z based goods to ALWAYS stay on the good side of the audiences who buy these mangas and toy and all the other products.

"So to conclude, it sounds like you are telling me that the willingness for the fans to overrate this manga/anime made it bad?"

Your imagination seems to run wild. The fans did not overrate the manga. To overrate is to say that something that is bad is good. or to say that something that is good is excellent. They did not overrate DragonBall Z. What they did was push to keep there favorite characters in. The author had to cringe to the fans demand to keep there favourites characters in so that sales for his manga would sustain. And you are right when saying that, "if there werent as many fanatics of the manga then the intregrity of it would have been sustained". BUT if there werent as many Fanatics as there are for the series, the manga wouldnt be in the position that it is in. Without the boatloads of fans Dragonball Z has it wouldnt be nearly half as popular as it is now and we would not be having this debate right now.
Debate Round No. 3
SaintMichael741

Pro

In closing, I would like to say address that fandom should never control a show/manga like Dragonball Z. The show would have been much better with permadeath and Gohan becoming stronger as the season progressed. While me and my opponent disagree with Gohan, I think he can say that the show would have been much better if the baton was handed to Gohan. Instead, we have an overrated show that focuses too much on fandom, exposition, and a horrible ending.

I do agree with my opponent that I should have included Dragonball, but I think that the western population is reading this debate. I think that Dragonball is the best of the three series, and is in fact underrated.

To make it clear, I'm definitely not saying that Bleach and Naruto didn't have their own weaknesses. Naruto at this point has become exactly like Dragonball Z and Bleach...don't get me started. I was trying to make the point that in American comics and certain characters in Bleach and Naruto have to deal with specific limitations with their powers. Are they always defined 100%? Unfortunately no. But how can we care about characters in Dragonball Z if they are mostly ineffective against their enemies?

As for weaknesses, Kenshin's was more about struggling with his past and not letting himself become merely an assassin again. He wanted a new life of peace. The entire manga was centered on him letting go of his past. The Saiyans never let go of their lust for battle. Instead, they just continue on with that weakness. If a character does not try to change their weakness, they become one dimensional. Vegeta is just an idiot who let the Cell situation get a lot worse instead of ending it, and Goku cares more about training than being a family man.

I don't think I'm letting my imagination run wild when I say that the fanbase should not have pushed the author to do anything that he didn't want to do.

To be fair, I think my opponent has made some very good points. However, I still believe that Dragonball Z/GT are overrated and there are many animes/mangas that have much better action and end in a much more satisfying way.

Thank you Biggtime for an enjoyable debate.

BiggTime

Con

In Conclusion, I would like to say that fandom may have changed what the author intended to do, but i say it was for the better. But you have to understand, that franchises like DragonBall Z run entirely on the FanBase because corporates only wish to make money. I mean it created one of the most iconic Characters in manga/anime history. Even if the baton was passed to Gohan i dont think the show would have been better then it already is. You would have to compare character traits. What makes battles in DragonBall Z fun to watch is Goku's attitude while fighting. He may be getting completely dominated in a fight but he still makes it enjoyable. Goku makes those idiotic comments during battle that just have a way of making it a lot more enjoyable. Gohan possess a serious, no-nonsense attitude especially during Battle. It takes the fun aspect from watching the battle making it less enjoyable.

Atleast we agree with DragonBall.

Well you can also say that SOME characters in DragonBall Z are faced with specific limitations. But when addressing the main characters of DragonBall Z it is only fair to deal with the main characters of Naruto/Bleach/AmericanComics. Later in the series it is true that the "Human" characters are inefficent against enemies. It showcases the Saiyan Strength. However earlier in the series every character was effective against the opponents. Like I previously stated yajirobe, krillin, and a young gohan were vital in defeating vegeta as goku had failed. Even his spirit bomb wasnt enough to take out vegeta (in his saiyan mode not the ape mode). the other character were the one that defeated most of the Ginyu force (goku does take out two of them), including Ginyu. So the characters arent as ineffective if you compare them throughout the entire series.

So we agree that there lust for Battle is a weakness, then? By accepting this you have undermined one of your early points. Maybe, it makes them one-dimensional, but Dragonball Z doesnt focus on character development. It is a manga focused just on Battling, and it is a something it Excels at.

In a sportive attitude i would like to say that my opponent as put out some valid points and has made this a very enjoyable debate for me, for that i would like to thank you.

To me DragonBall Z is not overrated because it excels at what it was created to do. Sell and capture the hearts of fans everywhere. Many popular Mangas now a days say that they based there Main Characters off of Goku. (http://en.wikipedia.org...). DragonBall Z is one of the worlds best selling manga for a reason.

Thanks to SaintMichael741 for bringing up this interesting topic
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Gohan12345 3 years ago
Gohan12345
I agree z was better the GT
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 4 years ago
bladerunner060
SaintMichael741BiggTimeTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I am not the biggest fan of Dragonball Z or GT. However, the burden was on Pro to establish that they were "overrated", and Pro failed to do so. I feel like he would have done better to establish reasons why it's generally rated so highly, and attacked those, rather than simply attacking parts of the show...as Con pointed out, those are all subjective. Granted, all taste is, but if you're arguing that it's "overrated" without really addressing substantially why it's so highly rated in the first place, you're not really establishing your case, you're just talking smack. Which is fine, too, 'cause like I said, I'm not the biggest fan of either show either. But this is a debate, and there was a BoP. Otherwise, though, this was a very neat and more-interesting-than-I-anticipated debate!