Dreamworks Is Better Than Disney
Debate Rounds (4)
We will start debating at round 2.
I would like to thank my opponent for offering me my first chance to participate in a purely recreational debate.
I will be arguing that Disney is better than Dream works.
I await your arguments and good luck!
Now for starters, I would like to say that I do not hate Disney. However, at this time, I prefer Dreamworks.
I went to see the newest Dreamworks movie, Hot to Train Your Dragon 2. It was fantastic! It was beautiful, filled with interesting character an a deep, interesting story. Now, on the other hand, Frozen which is somewhat popular, left me rather bored. I liked it but it wasn't anything to call home about.
The thing is that Disney is being lazy. First, you have the lazy designs of the two princesses: http://31.media.tumblr.com...
Not only are the princesses carbon copies of each other, but Lino DiSalvo who is the head of animation at Disney said, "Historically speaking, animating female characters are really, really difficult, because they have to go through these range of emotions, but you have to keep them pretty and they"re very sensitive to " you can get them off a model very quickly. So, having a film with two hero female characters was really tough, and having them both in the scene and look very different if they"re echoing the same expression; that Elsa looking angry looks different from Anna being angry." (http://www.cartoonbrew.com...)
I'm sorry but I really don't buy that. Not only is it saying that being lazy okay but it's also saying that animated women should all look the same. That and all the men in Frozen get to look different. Notice how Hans and Kristoff look different yet are still handsome. I find it hard to believe that women are so hard to animate but men aren't.
As for Dreamworks, they gave us three females who are each beautiful in their own right. http://cdn0.dailydot.com...
Now another problem I have with Disney is the princess franchise. I love princesses as much as the next person but Disney has this problem when it comes to POC (people of color.) As of now, there are only four POC princesses in the Disney line up: Tiana, Pocahontas, Mulan and Jasmine. All together, there are 13 princesses. See the problem? The last POC princess came out in 2009 (Princess Tiana) and after that, we got four more white princesses. Now some people may say this isn't important but representation in media is extremely vital to children. ((http://youtu.be...))
Dreamworks next movie, Home, features a POC character that is front and center. ((https://www.youtube.com...)) While Disney does have Princess Tiana, she has sadly gotten ignored. It's very hard to find merchandise with her on it and the same goes for the others. Disney seems to have a slightly racist streak for they only seem to care. ((http://waltdisneyconfessionsrage.tumblr.com...))
Now, the last Disney movie I loved to death was Wreck It Ralph. It was original, interesting and beautiful. Another thing is that they gave me characters to care about. I cared about Ralph and his struggles. After that, however, Disney seemed to lose it's edge. It wasn't just Frozen but Pixar too. Monsters University was okay but it didn't leave me invested. I know people may think this is silly but in order for a movie to be good, you have to make your audience care about the characters or you'll lose them.
But in HTTYD 2, I cared about Hiccup. Hiccup is the main character of the series and he also happens to be disabled. He lost his foot during a battle. Now, the thing is I am also disabled so I can relate to Hiccup slightly. Also, Hiccup was constantly butting heads with his father and his father only wanted Hiccup to be safe. Again, I can relate to that. Hiccup feels alone, feels misunderstood and is creative. Again, I can relate. But there is all these others things that make him interesting: his drive, his passion, his cleverness. I am more invested in his struggles than I was the struggles of Elsa and Ann from Frozen.
Dreamworks makes me care about animated characters while Disney seems to only care about the money.
My opponent seems to be arguing from a few points:
1. HTTYD2 is great.
2.Frozen is not very good.
3. Disney does not have emotionally compelling animated characters.
4. Disney is lazy
5. Disney has problems with ethnicity.
I will be arguing these points:
1.HTTYD2is not that great.
2.Frozen was really good.
3.Disney has a vivid history of compelling characters and still creates them
4.Disney is not lazy.
5.Disney's perceived POC issue is explainable without calling into question disney's racism.
6.Up blows HTTYD2 out of the water
Frozen was a very good movie.
The characters were quite compelling and the story was interesting.
The two were initially in a blissful state. They were two beautiful princesses and one could create additional joy with ice. From the blissful state, the once joyful gift is now a curse; it is the cause of the degradation of their childhood. Throughout the child hood Elsa becomes increasingly isolated from all contact and Anna has to endure the consequences. I believe this dilemma constitues and interesting conflict. One would expect the lives of two princesses to be perfect however an internal problem haunts.
Elsa and Anna are the antithesis to one another which makes for an even more interesting story.
Kristoff plays the charming and sincere under dog, a position we can all relate to. He develops a crush on Anna, however he pushes that aside in order to save her heart from freezing, which is an act of emotional valor.
The prince is a deceitful and charming snake. One would expect that he and Anna would live happily ever after but he turns on her. This a sneaking suspicion although one does not have a sufficient base to do so.
Olaf is what makes the movie. Disney was quite innovative in placing a homosexual snowman in the movie. He is rather absent minded and naive but witty at times. The summer song is adorable and funny. One can not deny the contribution that Olaf has in the movie.
In the end Anna prevails over the prince.
The movie is emotionally compelling. How can one not be stirred by the quest of a sister to save her sister from a frozen heart. With adorable interactions and heart warming resolutions, Frozen is a very good movie.
Disney And Compelling Characters: Disney, ever since it's conception has produced compelling and memorable characters. Who is the trademark of disney? Mickey Mouse. We all know who Mickey and I am sure we all find his romance with Mini adorable. I believe my opponent is stating that disney no longer has compelling characters. I would have to differ. Olaf is an incredibly compelling character. Alice in Alice in wonderland is a compelling character.WallE was amazing. What makes a compelling character? Development, ability to cope with conflict, relatability; most if not all disney movies have a leading role who has the traits.
Lazy: I don't see any real justification for this assertion. The reason given for this assertion is that Disney used similar designs for Elsa and Anna. Well this would make since, considering they're SISTERS. Sister, especially in the aristocratic families, tend to look similar. I shouldn't go into the biology because my opponent probably already knows it. I would argue that disney is not lazy, they continue to produce movies, some may not be amazing but that's to be expected. I mean come on Dreamworks had shark tale.
Asserted Racism: Disney was born in1923, all of America had a POC problem and it has dissapated over time. That's So Raven was a beloved disney show staring a black family. It even got a sequal(Cory In The House. Wizards of Waverly place had a mexican cast.
UP: Up was an amazing and heart felt movie. The life of the protagonist is shown gradually. He marries his childhood sweetheart and they have a perfect relationship until the end. Is there anybody whose heart does not melt at the sight of the loving interactions. After the death of his wife he is left depressed and we can all relate. I won't explain the plot but every character adds emotional depth to te movie. The little boy with the parent problems and Mr.Fredricksen disappointing encounter with his childhood hero make our hearts sink but are hearts are reassured when the dog, the oldamn and the young child live happily ever after. The claim that disney doesn't have emotionally compelling characters is not true.
HTTYD2: The movie is good, I will admit, but it isn't ground breaking. I was never one for dragons. The movie wasn't as cute as the aforementioned disney movies either.
Now I am also going to say that I actually do like Frozen. It was a good little movie but again, I don't think it's the best movie ever. I found a lot of flaws within the movie and one of the biggest flaws is the sisters. I do think it's great that Anna saves her sister and I thought it was great that her love saved Elsa instead of a true love's kiss. However, Anna is, to me, an extremely selfish and rude character. Not only does she push Elsa so much that she panics and uses her powers, but she also goes from wanting to spend time with her sister to suddenly wanting a man. And then, she decides it's okay to marry a man she knew for ONE DAY. There is also this problem of her being a bit too polite when she talks to Elsa. Anna should be angry at Elsa for ignoring and also missing her parents funeral.
Looking at Elsa, she is also problematic. First, can someone explain how she has ice powers? I mean, in X-Men they explain why they have mutants. But Elsa just has ice powers and no one else in the family does. Odd. Secondly, Elsa is somewhat of a coward. Instead of trying to fix her problem, she runs off and abandons her people. Also, Elsa's powers are suppose to be a symbol of mental illness/disability. The problem I have with this is that in the end, Elsa supposedly gets better because of love. That's not how it works. You can't just suddenly be cured of something because of love.
Now as for compelling characters, Mickey is a loveable charterer but for a while, we didn't have any Mickey. The only Micky that we had was on Disney Junior. They did bring him back for some shorts (which I love) so you do have a point. However, I still feel like after Wreck It Ralph, Disney wasn't trying that hard with Elsa and Anna. I find Anna to be boring and like I said before, extremely selfish. Elsa would have been interesting but we barely get any time with her. How can I care about these two?
Now here's the thing about your statement on the racism. Yes, Disney was founded in a time where race was a huge issue. I will give you that. However, I am still upset at how Disney treats their POC characters. First, Jasmine from Aladdin is extremely sexualized and her movie does a poor job of portraying Arabic cultures. Granted, Aladdin isn't as bad as Pocahontas which is not only historically inaccurate but does a a disservice too Pocahontas who was a real woman. Mulan did somewhat better but there are still some problems with both history and culture. ((http://disneyminna.wordpress.com...))
Princess and the Frog, one of my favorite movies, also had it's fare share of problems. Tiana, the lead, is a prototypical hard working black woman. The movie also butchers the voodoo religion. Another huge problem is that the first black princess is a frog for 75% of her movie. This has never happened it any of the other Disney princesses, just her.
Another huge problem is that in the story of the Snow Queen, which Frozen is based off of, there is an important female character of color who was left out of the movie. ((http://this-is-my-miracle.tumblr.com...))
As for Up, I LOVE that movie. It's extremely beautiful and i love the characters. But here's the thing. Up was made by Pixar. Now you're going to say, "But Pixar is Disney." That is true but I have noticed in the past that Pixar had better films coming out than Disney had. While it is owned by Disney, it's my understanding that the people in charge of Pixar don't really answer to the higher up at Disney but the people who own Pixar. I might be completely wrong on this however but there is no denying that Up is a wonderful film.
As for HTTYD 2, you admit that you aren't a fan of dragons. And that is perfectly fine. I understand that. However, I don't understand comparing it to Up. The thing about Up and Dragons is that they are set in different worlds. Up is set in the real world and Dragons is set in a world that is well...filled with dragons. I think it would have made more sense to compare Dragons to another Disney or Pixar film that is filled with fantastical creatures and magic.
And as for being cute, what does it matter? Cuteness is fine and all but you can't carry a movie with just that. Also, Disney films may be cute but they are filled with a lot of dark moments. When I was little, I didn't watch Dumbo because of the scene with the pink elephants!
Sorry this long. Your turn!
I apologize for taking so long. I have been writing articles and debating a creationist on evolution.LOL perhaps this should have been a frozen debate.
Frozen Revisited: Your primary conflict seems to be that the one employee made a sexist remark. Maybe it was intentional maybe it wasn't but can we really look at frozen and disney as whole through that lense?
The reason why Kristoff and Hans look less similar than Elsa and Anna is because Anna and Elsa are SISTERS. If Elsa had a ginger-haired little sister you would expect her to look like Anna. If I wasn't too tired of biology I would do a punnet square.
Anna is selfish? She was unaware of Elsa's problem. You can not fault her on provoking somethinf she didn't know. I would say it's more so Elsa's fault for keeping her in the dark. Also Anna had a life of solitude and disappointment, one would expect her to become easily attached to a cute guy.
Are you really getting into the irrationality of ice powers -.-. It's a fictional Disney movie. Yes I agree Elsa is sort of a coward, but she hurt her sister as a child and that has consequences. I will concede that the parents totally screwed up the troll's message. Instead of making her feel loved they lock her up.
Also if you want to talk irrationality? The movie has dragons. Really? Also the dragons are amiable?? Come on now.
I don't see how you don't care about them. Two adorable princesses who grow up with problems come out and have a journey filled with interesting characters and conflicts and a GAY SNOWMAN. I find it incredibly compelling, I guess you just don't.
More On Racism: I think you do agree that it is getting better. Even if disney employs some intentional or unintended racial humor that does not negate the quality and level entertainment of the movies. You and I both know that America finds racial humor,well humorous. Most individuals of color I know find racism against their own race humorous. I concede it is a little worse because disney is primarily for kids, but as I said it is getting better.
Pixar: Sorry to be technical but any argument for Pixar is an Argument for Disney.
Also just as you concede UP is a good movie, I will concede HTTYD2 is a good movie but it's not ground breaking
All in all, I do like Disney but I feel like they are losing their touch slightly. Frozen was okay but I cannot relate to Anna or Elsa and in the end, I really can't bring myself to care about them. I want them to succeed but only because they are our default heroes. If they weren't so badly written I would have felt something and cheered them on but they were so bland and uninteresting.
Dreamworks seems to be taking risks. They give us characters that are flawed and not beautiful. They give us under dogs to cheer for. They are having more fun with their movies but I also feel like they take their audiences seriously. They might not be as cute as Disney films but like I said, cute can only get you so far.
Thanks for debating with me. :)
I would have to disagree. I feel an affinity for Elsa and Anna. We can all relate to getting back stabbed by a loved one or to get in a fight with family or losing a loved one. The ending is heart warming. Once again: GAY SNOWMAN!
I don't think Dreamwork's characters not being good looking makes their moves anybetter.
Cuteness is important in animated blatantly fictitious comedies. Disney is cute, generally becoming more witty and classic--everything one looks for in animated children comedies. And dreamworks made Sharktale.
I enjoyed this discussion about Disney and Dreamworks. We should discuss more sometime and maybe one day we could debate a more serious topic. :)
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.