The Instigator
SongHaGin
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
RuggieRug
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Dues Ex Vs. Dishonored

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/15/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 359 times Debate No: 81028
Debate Rounds (4)
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SongHaGin

Pro

First round is acceptance.
I am for Dues Ex (human revolution)
RuggieRug

Con

I am for Dishonored.
Debate Round No. 1
SongHaGin

Pro

For my first point I will just go off of personal experience....
I know that this game is old now, but It is one of the most epic games and staples in game history.
Dues ex has been around for a long time.
The graphics are good for the time it was made.
The story line is amazing! It goes into depth very well.
The fact that you can upgrade Adam Jensen any way you like and then go about the game in any way is very good. You can either avoid all enemies, strike quickly, or go out guns blazing. You can even mix and match. The game can accommodate all of these choices.
Another thing I wanted to bring up is Adam Jensen's take down moves. Amazing.
The character development is on-point.
RuggieRug

Con

The points you made about Deus Ex are all valid, however each one of them can be said about Dishonored.
Multiple of them to an even greater degree.
While the graphics of Dishonored was very different to the gritty, modern military shooters with realistic graphics. it had its own unique style.
On top of that, the style worked well, it allowed the immersive world of Dishonored to be seen in a different light, and allowed the player to really become immersed in the world.
The story of Dishonored seriously asks moral questions that so many games try to do, but fail at executing it.
The protagonist of the game did not even had a voice actor, yet that only makes the game better, he is the character of the player, and not one that has been made and custom bred for them.
Unlike so many other games, you can develop your own character, you can not choose the characters name or appearance, yet you can make the character that you decide to make.
You can play as a vindictive killer, or a merciful person looking for the truth.
What Dishonored has is not flash, there is no extensive ostentatious cinematics, but a story with real depth, and mechanics that flow together seamlessly.
The two games have striking similarities, and while Deus Ex is a true classic, it was Dishonored that had the opportunity to refine and expand upon what that game did right.
Debate Round No. 2
SongHaGin

Pro

Next I will go into the way you can go about the game and the game play itself.
In this game, the choices you make are not distinct. They aren't simply "right" or "wrong" In this game you can simply choose whichever choice seems right to YOU, enabling your own moral compass.
That being said, the way you can complete the missions is also not in any way, "cookie cutter."
You can be a ghost, going about all of the missions completely undetected and earning more exp, while you might be missing some vital things.
You can be a panther, quickly striking and going back into the shadows. The advantage of this is that you can retrace your steps and collect anything you want, without alarming anyone or upsetting your moral compass (or pritchard's).
You can hack everything, and sneak past the cameras undetected.
You can also talk your way out of almost everything.
From what I understand, In dishonored, your choices only affect the game slightly, although I'm not sure, because my web filter won't allow me to... but I have played this game.
I did not have as many choices as dues ex, and I think gamers like the fact that they have option to chose how to go about the game, and that It can greatly affect the outcome of the game.
Now about the gameplay. I will touch on this briefly.
Gamers can customize Adam Jensen to their liking, even to assist them in whatever pillar of game play they choose.
I think that this customization is one of the advantages that makes it better than dishonored.
RuggieRug

Con

True, in Deus Ex you can choose what is right to you, however Dishonored features this same system in similar light.
In Dishonored you can go through the game like a complete ghost, not alerting a single enemy to your presence the entire game, or you can embark on a path of blood.
What makes the system is Dishonored work so well is that there is no choices that say this is what you should do, and what you have to do.
In the game overall killing every enemy in your path is most of the time in fact less challenging than stealthily making your way through, stealth is not easy.
So it is up to the player whether they wish to take the path of stealth which can change so much in the game including the way you interact with non-playable characters and the ending of the game entirely.
You are allowed to change the world your in, which simply allows the player to become completely immersed in the world, you can forge your own tactics, you can take out major targets in dozens of lethal or non-lethal ways, and you can end the game with a ruined world in chaos, or a world which flourishes in harmony and peace.
It all comes down to one of the advantages it has over Deus Ex, what Deus Ex did, Dishonored was able to improve upon.
The world in Dishonored and the way the player interacts with it is up to their play style, it is not linear, and in fact has a great effect on the world.
The skill system in Dishonored is not complex, there is no complex tree that dictates what the player can do later on because they did not get a beginning skill earlier.
There are very few skills in Dishonored which are passives, most of them are active skills which the player can use to suit their own style.
They could use bend time to sneak away from combat, combine it with possession to cause an enemy to be killed by his own bullet, or to sneak past enemies completely to assassinate a main target, there are ways to use them no matter what play style you use, assuming you understand the skill.
There is no ridiculous system of xp in Dishonored that rates players on what they do, you upgrade your skills using runes which you find across the large sandbox levels, the game encourages you to explore in order to find these, which can be used to gain new skills.
If you follow a strictly linear path, you will not gain the advantages of being able to upgrade your skills.
You can play the game however you like, and it encourages you to experiment, and develop your own style which will change the world of the game.
Debate Round No. 3
SongHaGin

Pro

I understand Dishonored has some game choices also, but what I am trying to push is the variation of which you can go about the game in dues ex. In dialogue, there is also different choices too. It is not, good or bad, because there is also an option to upgrade your augments to use the social enhancements. The way in which you go about completing a mission, does, in fact have an effect on the characters around you.
In dues ex there is also no "Ridiculous XP" system. Yes you earn xp, which earns you praxis, but you can also find praxis and buy praxis which enables you to upgrade the character.
There is certainly room to experiment in dues ex, there are many pillars of the game and different ways to play.
This game has such a high replay value.
So, if you like exceptional graphics, Many pillars of game play, a deep satisfying story line, and an awesome setting to explore, you'll choose dues ex. It's been around for a while.
RuggieRug

Con

Many arguments have been made discussing the variety of choices in the game, but it remains the same that both games have choices that deeply change the world of the game and its inhabitants.
Both of the games have these choices, that is a fact, that the world of the games is indeed the players own world is true, and this is true on both games.
The choices in both Dishonored and Deus Ex are not superficial choices, but choices that change the games world and story itself.
However having this in Deus Ex, in any case, creates a great dissonance between the games game play and story.
Look at the protagonist of Dishonored, Corvo Attano, he does not even have a voice actor. In fact he is such a weak character he is barely there, but this works for the games advantage completely.
In Dishonored the main character is the players character, you can choose what he says, and how he acts upon his path of vengeance, he is not a result of the character made by the games developer but a creation of the player in essence. In this way the story and the gameplay compliment each other, and do not create a dissonance like Deus Ex.
No matter how you look at Adam Jensen and the fact that yes you can change the way the character acts, he is not completely up to the player because he is a character, you can not change that as a player.
Regardless of how you go about the game he is still a crated character, not one created by the player like in Dishonored.
The dissonance comes in because the game encourages you to make moral decisions for your character, however no matter how you think about it Adam Jensen is a character created by the developer not the player.
So in Deus Ex there is variety in the game play like in Dishonored, however the character you play as is not a character up to the player, but is one made for them.
The illusion that the player can make their own protagonist is just that, a mere illusion.
You say the graphics in Deus Ex are exceptional, and while they were for their time, we are not in that time anymore. No matter how you look at it, by today's standards the graphics are horrendous. So if you are looking for a game with better graphics to play right now, Dishonored is a clear choice.
On top of that, the visual style of Dishonored goes with the dark and hopeless world of the game so well, but in Deus Ex the basic graphics do simply not go well with the futuristic metropolis the game is set in.
You say the game encourages you to experiment, however there are many passives in the game which does not add any experimentation, and the active skills do not really completely change the way you go about the game, just are generally useful abilities for any situation.
However in Dishonored the abilities can be helpful in multiple situations assuming you are willing to experiment, and if you are there are ways to use them which completely change the ways in which you can go about your objective.
You could even mind control a assassination target using possession and cause them to commit suicide, there is so much variety in the skills.
The setting is interesting to explore, however it is not complimented by the graphics, unlike Dishonored.
With Dishonored the world is also interesting to explore as well in fact you are encouraged to explore as it could yield powerful advantages and rewards, with the open sandbox levels all of which have complex layouts and multiple methods of infiltration.
Overall you make a good point saying Deus Ex has been around for a while, but it is just that which makes it weaker than Dishonored, Deus Ex was innovative for its time. It was not very much building off anything and so it had to make new ideas, and there was not much it was able to refine. Dishonored was able to take away what Deus Ex did wrong, but take everything it did right and refine it. Dishonored is stronger because it was able to do just that successfully.
And due to all of this Dishonored had plenty of replay value, due to the various ways to play which change the world and the story, and the various ways in which skills can be used and targets can be dispatched.
Debate Round No. 4
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