The Instigator
ichigo85
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
PeacefulChaos
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Dumbledore with Harry's wand(before it was broken) vs Voldermort with the unbeatable wand!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
PeacefulChaos
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,961 times Debate No: 19716
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (27)
Votes (1)

 

ichigo85

Pro

I believe Dumbledore would win against Voldermort using just Harry's wand since Dumbledore was able to defeat his old childhood friend that carried the unbeatable wand. I'll give more detail if someone accepts this challenge =)
PeacefulChaos

Con

I apologize for my late response: I have been very busy. I will be assuming the first round is for acceptance, so my opponent and I have an equal amount of rounds to debate. However, I would like to ask several things.


Questions:


1. Will this be a fight to the death?


1a. If so, will Voldemort have access to his horcruxes?


2. Where will this fight take place?


3. In what mental/physical condition will the two characters be in?


4. Will Voldemort be the master and owner of the elder wand (what you call the unbeatable wand)?


4a. If not, then it should only be fair that Dumbledore is not the master and owner of Harry’s wand.


5. Will allies be allowed in this battle?


I look forward to an interesting debate!


Debate Round No. 1
ichigo85

Pro

So, I will assume you know the books well.

First, the elder wand is unbeatable, but just because the wand itself is unbeatable does not mean the one using the wand is unbeatable or else Dumbledore would have never been able to win the elder wand from Grindelwald. Now, not only has Dumbledore been able to defeat the elder wand, but he has also sparred against Voldermort in book 5 during the ministries chapter, I believe their where many times Dumbledore could have destroyed Voldermort, but that wasn't going to finish him because it wasn't part of his plan.

Now, in this fight Voldermort is mortal and Dumbledore has said that Voldermort is afraid of death as he does not understand it. This would make Voldermort vunerable. Also, I would like to point out that Dumbledore was the only one Voldermort ever feared. I believe this because he was not able to win Dumbledore over with his charm like he did others and knew he would not have an influence over Dumbledore, his methods of violence and control merely disappoint Dumbledore who feels that he could have done so much more with his powers. For example, in the cave scene in Half-Blood Prince when Dumbledore discovers the arched entrance he is severely disappointed with Voldemort's enchantment that requires anyone wanting entrance to the cave to shed their own blood and Dumbledore seemed rather excited to see what Voldermort had come with.

I would like to point out that Dumbledore was able to duel with Voldermort while protecting Harry in book 5. This tells you how confident Dumbledore was in his abilities to fight against Voldermort =)
PeacefulChaos

Con

I am assuming Voldemort and Dumbledore are somehow magically revived so they can fight one another.

My opponent: “... just because the wand itself is unbeatable does not mean the one using the wand is unbeatable or else Dumbledore would have never been able to win the elder wand from Grindelwald.

This is, perhaps, one of the greatest Harry Potter mysteries of all time. You are correct in your assumption that the wand itself is unbeatable. You are also correct in your assumption that the person using the wand is not unbeatable. This is because the wand can be overcome if it is not actually used in a duel, just as water will not cure me of my thirst if I do not drink it. However, the elder wand can overcome any other wand in a duel, and that is why it is so special. Thus, it boils down to this: the elder wand is the most powerful wand in existence, but it is only affective when you are using it.

There are a plethora of ideas as to how Dumbledore could have bested Grindelwald. Let us start by evaluating the book Rita Skeeter wrote. The book I allude to is, “The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore”. In this book, she hints the battle between Dumbledore and Grindelwald was not as great as it was made out to be. She even suggests that he simply forfeited the duel. However, there is another alternative that has a better explanation. Dumbledore, as we all know, is a man of great words. There is not a doubt he would have utilized his amazing ability to persuade others in this fight. It is possible he made Grindelwald hesitate for a second or so, and in that short amount of time, Dumbledore could have cast a spell to disarm his childhood friend; thus, winning him the duel.

If Dumbledore can somehow get under Voldemort’s guard (as he did with Grindelwald) and kill him, then he could win the duel. However, Voldemort is just as persuasive as Dumbledore, if not more. Furthermore, Voldemort has no love for Dumbledore as Grindelwald did and will not be as susceptible to Dumbledore’s tricks. That means Dumbledore has to use pure magic to win him this duel and cannot resort to his tedious speeches.

My opponent: “. . . he [Dumbledore] has also sparred against Voldermort in book 5 during the ministries chapter, I believe their where many times Dumbledore could have destroyed Voldermort, but that wasn't going to finish him because it wasn't part of his plan.”

This all based off your claim that you believe there were many times Dumbledore could have destroyed his rival, yet you provide no evidence to back this up. Let us also take into consideration that Dumbledore had the elder wand at the time. This is certain to increase his magical power tenfold. However, in this fight, Dumbdoor—I mean, Dumbledore has Harry’s wand and his magical power is certain to drop by quite a fair margin. On the other hand, Voldemort has the elder wand and his power is certain to increase greatly. Thus, if he is an equal wizard (if not greater) to Dumbledore without the elder wand, then it is easy to see who will be triumphant if Voldemort is with the elder wand.

Moving on, Dumbledore would not have killed Voldemort because he could not do it. He simply did not have the will to kill the once young boy he met in an orphanage. This is because Dumbledore is too kind and loving to do such a terrible evil. You could argue that it was part of his plan to keep Voldemort alive, but we all know that Dumbledore would never even dream of using an unforgivable curse. Thus, it is probable that the main reason Dumbledore never killed him is because he is morally above such actions.

My Opponent: “Voldermort is afraid of death as he does not understand it. This would make Voldermort vunerable.

I hardly think this matters, since the only possible way Voldemort and Dumbledore could have a duel together is to rise from the dead. Once Voldemort has experienced how painless death is, he will no longer fear it as he once did.

However, even if Voldemort still fears death, I think it would simply make him more cautious, and that can be a good thing. Every single last one of his senses will be heightened. His reflexes will probably be lightning fast and he would move so quickly Dumbledore would not have time to respond.

My opponent: “Also, I would like to point out that Dumbledore was the only one Voldermort ever feared.

Likewise, Voldemort was the only one who could match magical power with Dumbledore. In addition, it is logical to believe Voldemort is more skillful than Dumbledore. To prove this, I would like to point out several things.

Dumbledore once claimed he was a shade more skillful than Grindelwald, if at all. Grindelwald was once the greatest dark wizard of all time. He was most powerful when he had his elder wand, yet Voldemort managed to take "first place". In addition, he did this without the elder wand. Thus, if Dumbledore is only a shade more skillful than Grindelwald, then he is definitely not as powerful as Voldemort, who is much more powerful than Grindelwald even without the elder wand.

My opponent: “I would like to point out that Dumbledore was able to duel with Voldermort while protecting Harry in book 5.

Dumbledore did so with the aid of enchanted statues; therefore, it should even out. In addition, Voldemort was not too focused on Harry. He was mainly trying to kill Dumbledore. I would also like to point out that even though Dumbledore had to protect Harry and fight Voldemort (albeit, with the help of his giant statues and the elder wand), Voldemort had to attack Harry and Dumbledore at the same time as well. All in all, Dumbledore actually had the advantage in the fight, making it unfair.

Now that I have successfully refuted my opponent’s arguments, I shall make several of my own. However, please take note that many of my arguments were in the rebuttals I made, so instead of re-typing everything, I will just allude to my rebuttals.


1. Voldemort is equal to, if not greater than, Dumbledore.

Of course, I am referring to their magical skills and abilities. I have already shown how Voldemort is more powerful than Dumbledore without the elder wand. In this fight, he will have the elder wand; therefore, he is extremely likely to win.


2. Dumbledore is morally above using the unforgivable spells.

I briefly went over this; however, I would now like to show how Dumbledore could not win this duel because he is morally above using lethal spells. I asked my opponent if this is a fight to the death. His answer was yes. Thus, in order to win this, Dumbledore must be able to kill Voldemort.

Dumbledore is a great supporter of love. He is always loving, and he always tries to find good in everyone, including Voldemort. He is so virtuous he simply is too noble to commit such terrible acts such as the unforgivable curses. If this is the case, then he will not be able to use Avada Kedavra, simply because he believes it is beneath him. Moreover, I do not think Dumbledore would mind going back to being dead. After all, Dumbledore never feared death and he actually embraced it. Not to mention that others who were revived from the dead never liked being “alive”. They always wanted to go back in peace.

Voldemort, on the other hand, certainly will take a second chance at life. He has an evil, demented, and twisted mind. While he may be persuasive, clever, and in this case wise (because he has experienced death), he will use these three attributes for different purposes than Dumbledore will. Alternatively, both wizards will have become wiser for the better, then decide that they want to go back to being dead, since they do not belong in the world. It would then result in a stalemate. Remember, my purpose here is to negate the resolution. By claiming a stalemate is possible, I am negating the resolution that Dumbledore would win the duel.

--

This took somewhat longer than I thought it would, but it was fun creating it. Well, good luck and good night (or whatever time it is when you read this) to Pro.

Debate Round No. 2
ichigo85

Pro

ichigo85 forfeited this round.
PeacefulChaos

Con


I am sorry my opponent could not post his refutations to my arguments within the given timeline. I will now proceed with my own points.


3. Dumbledore and Voldemort will be in their original, physical conditions when they come back to life.


The only possible way these two legendary wizards could have a battle with one another is if they are revived from the dead. Let us evaluate what physical condition the two wizards were in before they died.



Voldemort was still extremely powerful and there was no physical damage done to him before he died; thus, he will be in good shape.



Dumbledore will come back extremely weakened, an old fart, and with a blackened hand that contains his curse. His blackened hand (which is, coincidentally, his wand hand) will be a certain disadvantage. Not to mention that, after drinking some cursed and/or enchanted water, he was in extremely bad shape. He was so weak he could barely stand on his own two legs.



Dumbledore will be in no physical condition to fight Voldemort. Combine this with my other arguments, and it is clear that Voldemort will be triumphant in this duel.


4. Voldemort is more experienced than Dumbledore in magic.


Voldemort has undergone many horrifying transformation and has gone where no other wizard has dared to venture before. His vast knowledge of magic is greater than that of Dumbledore’s, because he has explored and put magic to its limits. Of course, Dumbledore has his love, but love will not do much when you get a face full of Avada Kedavra. With such a variety of spells at Voldemort’s disposal, (some we may have never seen in the Harry Potter series), then it is likely he would win this duel.


5. This duel could result in a stalemate.


While I have mentioned this before, I wish to remind everyone this could result in a stalemate. Death may have taught Voldemort a valuable lesson, and both he and Dumbledore may wish to embrace death yet again. If this is the case, then Dumbledore would not win the duel and the resolution would be negated.



--



I find it unfortunate that my opponent was not able to post his arguments; however, we have one more round, and I hope my opponent has time to share his points and refutations.



That being said, I hand over the next round to my opponent.


Debate Round No. 3
ichigo85

Pro

ichigo85 forfeited this round.
PeacefulChaos

Con

I extend all arguments. Before putting this debate into the voting period, I ask voters that they do not count conduct off of Pro, because he sent me a message giving an explanation as to why he could not post his arguments. Thanks =)
Debate Round No. 4
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
lol @OberHerr

She is Hilarius though
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
@Crazyman2297

My bad, I was to lazy to look up her name, and I thought that was it. :P Still, she creeps the living daylights out of me. Has that weird prostitute look, and is crazy....just scary.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
It's worse when people refer to her as "Bella". Then you start thinking Twilight, lol.
Posted by Crayzman2297 5 years ago
Crayzman2297
@Oberherr --- Her name was Bellatrix, not Beatrice.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
Thanks, ichigo. BTW, did you get your name from a show called Bleach? I don't watch it much, but my friend renji does. I think you two would get along just fine :)
Posted by ichigo85 5 years ago
ichigo85
Yes, it can be to the death since Voldermort would not fight any other way. No, no horcruxes. Let it take place in the Hogwarts grounds... Say around the lake? Voldermort was obsessed with Hogwarts. Voldermort will be master and owner of the wand and Dumbledore the master and owner of Harry's wand. No, just Voldermort and Dumbledore.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
You too
Posted by ichigo85 5 years ago
ichigo85
PeacefulChaos, I hope you have a wonderful agrument =)
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
I'll take that as a yes :)
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
Well, he did have love. :P Yeah, I thought it would be a lot cooler, but Mrs. Weasley dose call Beatrice a female dog, and kills her, so I am content. :)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
ichigo85PeacefulChaosTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro FF EVER round except the first and second. So yeah Con wins.