The Instigator
icebeartheawesome
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
frankfurter50
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

E.C. Segar's Popeye comic strips are better than Max Fleischer's Popeye cartoons.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2018 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 305 times Debate No: 106502
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

icebeartheawesome

Con

I think that Max Flischer's Popeye Cartoons are better than E.C. Segar's Popeye Comic Strips. Cartoons are usually just one-panelled, and are much easier to read compared to a comic strip.

Before we debate, here is the difference b/w a comic strip and a cartoon:

https://www.quora.com...

Let's go!

But after this, can we debate something I want to debate? This is only my 3rd debate. Let's do it this way: I choose a debate, you choose a debate, etc.
frankfurter50

Pro

E.C. Segar's comic strip is better. It contains actual humor and pathos. It's complex, it has more diverse characters, and it's imaginative. Through it all, you can see Segar's brilliance shining through, his genius is tremendous. He created an entire world for the newspaper comic section, and it's better than any other comic strip of its time.

Max Fleischer's Popeye cartoons, on the other hand, are a cheap knockoff with no humor. I'm talking about those animated little shorts that end up on DVD every now and then, and, for most people, it's the only Popeye they know. But it's not the real Popeye. The REAL Popeye was unparalleled. And I hate Max Fleischer's guts for ruining him.

Let's go.
Debate Round No. 1
icebeartheawesome

Con

Yes. Let's do this.

I think that Popeye Cartoons are better than Popeye Comic Strips because the cartoons are one-paneled, which are usually automatically much easier for people to read.

You probably read both cartoons and comic strips before. Don't you realize how long cartoons are, and they often make no sense. On the other hand, cartoons are usually humorous.

To be honest, I find that comic strips and cartoons are good to use, especially for humor purposes. However, cartoons appeal more to the general population than comic strips.

And before we move on to the 3rd round, I want you to find a picture of me on the Internet.
frankfurter50

Pro

No, I'm not talking about one paneled cartoons, I'm talking about the ANIMATED CARTOONS MADE BY MAX FLEISCHER AFTER THE DEATH OF E.C. SEGAR IN 1938. THEY WERE UTTER GARBAGE. THEY ARE NOTHING LIKE THE COMIC STRIP. THEY ARE 10 MINUTE LITTLE CARTOON SHORTS WITH BAD PLOTS AND ALL THE CHARACTERS ARE UNLIKABLE. POPEYE SOUNDS LIKE HE HAS A THROAT CONDITION AND OLIVE OYL'S VOICE IS 10 OCTAVES TOO HIGH. THERE'S NO SOCIAL CHARISMA BETWEEN THE CHARACTERS, IT'S THE SAME THING, OVER AND OVER AGAIN. EVERY CARTOON CAN BE BOILED DOWN TO THE FOLLOWING FORMULA:

1. POPEYE AND OLIVE OYL TOGETHER
2. BLUTO COMES IN, TAKES OLIVE
3. POPEYE BEATS BLUTO UP, TAKES OLIVE BACK
4. POPEYE AND OLIVE TOGETHER AGAIN

OF COURSE, THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING FLEISCHER DID TO A BELOVED COMIC STRIP CHARACTER. THERE ARE A FEW EPISODES OF POPEYE WHERE HE DRIVES JAPANESE PEOPLE TO SUICIDE. THESE HORRIBLE CARTOONS WERE PUT OUT AS PROPAGANDA DURING WORLD WAR TWO AND THEY'RE SHOCKINGLY EXPLICIT. THEY TURN A LOVABLE OLD SALT INTO A DEPRAVED MURDERER. THEY REFLECT JUST WHAT KIND OF A MAN FLETCHER WAS, A RACIST FIEND WHO USED OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK TO HIS OWN END.

The Popeye comic strips, in comparison, are lighthearted jovial, and have many more diverse plots. Over the course of the dailies, Popeye becomes a cowboy multiple times, meets a millionaire, founds his own country twice, finds his dad-the list just goes on and on. Also, the cartoons don't have Wimpy. Wimpy is the best character.

I await your next argument.
Debate Round No. 2
icebeartheawesome

Con

Oh, I'm sorry. I now will debate for the animated cartoons. I thought you were referring to one-panel cartoons.

Nonetheless, I prefer cartoons, in general, over comic strips. Animated cartoons have motion and sound, and is often more hilarious than comic strips. If you watched the Popeye cartoons before, you can actually find them quite interesting. On the other hand, comic strips are long and often gets boring.

Also, if you think Popeye's voice is 10 octaves too high, you must have a negative IQ.

If you write in ALL CAPS, SO WILL I:

LET US RECONSTRUCT THE 7 WONDERS

CURRY IS A DRUG THAT INDIAN PEOPLE BURN TO THEIR MILLION-ARMED GOD THAT IS POLLUTING THE WORLD
frankfurter50

Pro

You do not need motion or sound to enjoy something, you need a good plot and likable characters, and the Popeye cartoons do not have good plots or likable characters. The original Popeye strip was read by millions at the time of its printing, but today, because of the cartoons, it has been buried in obscurity. It deserves far more recognition. It is a legendary work, a work that defined the American landscape for years to come and besides all that, it's darn funny.

The Popeye cartoons are not at all interesting. They do not mention prohibition, and there are only 3 characters: Popeye, Olive Oyl, and Bluto. Bluto was never even in the comic strip. He was in there once. The comic strip has many more characters. Oscar, King Blozo, Vanripple, Wimpy, Rough House, Geezil, The sea hag, The goon, pappy, Swee pea, The jeep, Bernice the whiffle hen, Castor Oyl, and others. These characters had real social chemistry, because they were all different, none of them were inherently good or evil, they were complex figures with motivation and charisma. And Max Fleischer destroyed them all. He ruined them, sent them away. The cartoons would be fine if they were a word for word adaptation of the comics. But they are not. They are different, and much worse.

He never made a cartoon in the Sappo universe, either, because Sappo is just as good. Sappo is a funny comic, it shows the eccentricity of scientists, and it's one of the earliest science fiction works ever made, it should be put in a museum. It reflects an era when religion and science were battling it out, but before Wotasnozzle arrives, it's still a reflection of contemporary American life.

I said that Olive Oyl's voice in the cartoons is 10 octaves too high. Popeye sounds like he has throat cancer. The voice actors chosen were very poor choices.

I don't care if Max Fleischer invented Betty Boop on his own. he still ruined Popeye. And ruining Popeye is an unforgivable sin. The cartoons are not funny, they are not intriguing, they are a blemish on every good cartoon ever made.

I await your argument.
Debate Round No. 3
icebeartheawesome

Con

It is most likely that the voice actor has some voice cancer or is transgender, etc. Nonetheless, cartoons are much better than comic strips.

http://popeye.org...

Here is a Popeye comic strip. Can't you see how inappropriate it is? On the other hand, cartoons are generally directed to children, so they have less cussing, nudity, racism etc involved in them. So unless you want a corrupt mind, go watch some Popeye cartoons.

This is our last round, and for once we have debated something meaningful.

I await your next argument.
frankfurter50

Pro

The comic strip you provided is not by E.C. Segar, it's one of the later ones by Hy Eisman after E.C. Segar's death. You can tell it's not genuine by the way there's a TV set, in the thirties, when genuine Popeye comic strips were made, there were no TVs. However, the comic you provided is funny. Much funnier than a bland, stupid Popeye cartoon. And it's not inappropriate. Do you notice how the comic strip has an actual JOKE? Not just sight gags or idiotic dialogue? The comic strip is art. The cartoons are bad art.

The Popeye cartoons have plenty of cussing and racism. Popeye sinks a Japanese U-boat, and the Japanese are depicted as sub human, yellow creatures with buck teeth and glasses. That's a real cartoon, you can watch it. It's much more racist than anything Segar could have ever dreamed up. At the end of the episode, "Bride and Gloom," Popeye tells a stupid Confucius joke. That's vulgar. And it was sexist, too. The cartoons are not made for kids, but they're not mature enough for adults. They're aimed at nobody. The comic strip, on the other hand, was aimed at everybody. It dealt with adult topics, like prohibition, farmers' relief, class structure, the depression, and so on. But kids could easily enjoy it without noticing the subtle references placed throughout. Sometimes Segar reprinted some comics that kids had drawn. The comic strip is a genuine masterpiece. It should be placed alongside the other classics. It's better than Bringing up Father, better than Krazy Kat, better than Blondie. It is the best depression era comic strip to ever run.

In the cartoons, Olive Oyl is seen as a weakling who can't defend herself, thus keeping in stride with the sexist attitudes of the times. In the comics, she's much more independent, and has a huge ego, sometimes overbearing, which is used as a comedic device throughout. Wimpy, though, is the best part of the comic. He's a lazy fat idiot, and he mooches hamburgers in a million different ways. He's the comic strip version of Charlie Chaplin, I think. They're equals in being funny. Wimpy did not appear in the cartoons. Nor did any of the other good characters. They were completely left behind.

Bluto is an idiot. He poses almost no challenge to Popeye. Popeye beats him up, in the cartoons, within a fraction of a second. In Bluto's one comic strip appearance, he was not used as a main character, but as a plot device. Prior to the story with Bluto, we assume that Popeye is immortal, but we learn of Bluto, the ferocious pirate, coming to knock Popeye down, and we learn that Bluto is the ONE man who could beat Popeye. The two fight it out for TEN WHOLE COMIC STRIPS. That's probably the longest action sequence in the whole comic. They go at it until their clothes are ragged, and in the end, Bluto loses. But, unlike the cartoons, Popeye faces an actual threat. He does not simply knock Bluto silly within ten seconds, he faces death. Why Max Fleischer chose to revive Bluto for EVERY episode is beyond me.

In the cartoons, the fight between Popeye and Bluto is seen as a kind of fight between good vs. evil. But in any sort of media, the fight between good vs. evil is heavily cliched'. Protagonist must have some flaws, they must be somewhat imperfect. In the comics, Popeye is a human, not a diety. He plays craps and wastes away all his money, Olive yammers at him, he smokes a smelly old pipe, he's a ruffian, but still good natured and he does what he thinks is right. He's much more likable. He does not always go off on a long sea journey, sometimes he just hangs around town and participates in more mundane activities. The Popeye strip is a record of American life, and better than any history book.

He also never eats spinach in the comics for strength. He does once, I suppose, to kill an octopus, but that's about it. He is not dependent on spinach, he is independent from spinach. He can fight on his own, he does not eat spinach for strength. He just likes spinach. He eats a lot of it, sure, and sometimes before beating somebody up, but he can function separately from it. In the comics, he's a hollow shell without his spinach. He's not a hero, he's a pathetic coward. He's only strong when he gets his spinach fix. What kind of hero is that? Segar's Popeye doesn't just eat spinach, he recognizes the importance of other food, like milk, meat, and so on. Fleischer's Popeye is an idiot.

The Popeye in the cartoons is not the Popeye we see in the comics. The Popeye in the comics has red hair, the Popeye in the cartoons is bald. The Popeye in the comics wears a black, blue, and red shirt, the Popeye in the cartoons wears a clean white shirt. I think Max Fleischer took the Popeye from the comics, made a clone, took the original Popeye's brain out, and put it into the new Popeye, but made the new Popeye a stupid lout who beats up Asian men and tells vulgar jokes.

The comics are better than the cartoons. Thank you for debating this with me. Next we'll debate about depressed people.

Vote wisely, judges.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by frankfurter50 6 months ago
frankfurter50
Sorry, I wanted to argue pro. Switch around and I'll be all set.
No votes have been placed for this debate.