The Instigator
SilverishGoldNova
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Youngastronomer
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Earth is flat

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2017 Category: Science
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 702 times Debate No: 106064
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (31)
Votes (0)

 

SilverishGoldNova

Pro

I see that Edl is back on DDO and is debating you. I decided I'd give you a chance to prove the globe to me.

Round 1. Acceptance
Round 2. Arguments
Round 3. Rebuttals
Youngastronomer

Con

I accept your debate, thanks for the request.
Debate Round No. 1
SilverishGoldNova

Pro

I have a long list of arguments saved on a microsoft word doc.

Here they are

Contention #1. The Chicago Skyline

It is one of the most compelling arguments which convinced me into a flat Earth [1]. According to the globe Earth model, this should be impossible, and Chicago should instead disappear over the horizon. However, this is not the case. The common explanation is that this is just a mirage, but if you have actually seen a mirage you will know this is not true [2].

Contention #2. No evidence of curvature.

We are widely told we can see curvature at a height of around 35K Feet, the typical range where airplanes typically fly at. There have been reports of seeing curvature outside of an airplane window, but this has been debunked many times before. The curved glass of an airplane window will distort curvature [3]. We also have images showing no curvature from 80K feet, 121K feet, and 317K Feet [4] [5].

Many images allegedly showing curvature from similar heights have been shown to simply be hoaxes, or were blatantly recorded using a fish eye lense. Heres a humoruous example [6]. We have also caught NASA admitting to faking images. "The last time anyone took a photograph from above low Earth orbit that showed an entire hemisphere (one side of a globe) was in 1972 during Apollo 17". If you read further, we also have them saying that they stitched a "flat map" collected with satelite data onto a ball. Interesting [7]. Not only this, but there are videos throughouly debunking the 2 images they just don't wanna admit are fake, as throughougly as my debunking of the rest of "photographic evidence" [8] [9].

Contention #3. Flight Patterns

There are many flight patterns that, while they make absolutely no sense on a spherical Earth, make sense on a flat Earth. First off, looking at Antarctica, we know none of these flight patterns exist [10]. We know these are impossible on a flat Earth (especially if you have seen a flat Earth map) [11], but are possible on a globe Earth and infact, would result in shorter flight times. We are often told these flights do not exist because it is too cold. However, we are also told we have sent probes to outer space, which is MUCH more frigid. It is more of an excuse than an explanation.

[12] [13] Then look at this. On a ball earth, during a flight to Johannesburg to Perth, it should be a straight shot over the ocean and we should be able to land for refueling in Mauritus or Madagascar. But instead, most flights will stop in Dubai, Hong Kong, or Malaysia. It should also be a straight shot over the atlantic to go to Johannesburg to Sao Paulo, but many flights instead make a re-feuling in London, which would be impossible on a spherical Earth.

Contention #4. Standing water never curves

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant spinning sphere tilting and hurling through space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. There would be a massive bulge of water in the oceans because of the curvature of the earth. If earth was curved and spinning the oceans of water would be flowing down to level and covering land. Some rivers would be impossibly flowing uphill. There would massive water chaos and flooding! What we would see and experience would be vastly different! But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of luids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense. Frankly, all you need to do to persuade me into a globe Earth is to prove standing water can curve [14].

Contention #5. The arctic midnight sun.

My final argument for this round is the arctic midnight sun. This article explains it better than I could [15].

Sources:

1. youtube.com/watch?v=vWWokHgzxHA

2. gyazo.com/1d9159dce303b23ab2301abbe1cdcef7

3. photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMJEGjMR9YUv8g6cT5mVrbOCpYi2AtKa1Ty4gFdkRsDueZHhZPWDnMZv6NFP3nXPg?
key=TFQwb2ZDOVlwOTZ1MWJraThnSHI4ZjNwRDlfeWpR

4. i.imgur.com/VyLNeGa.jpg

5. photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOBHWKzpDKBew5j94MHx335hYJz5pgjbeTqVVMG3_VknYDtJwjbCA4TGxpmSKp_PQ?key=ZVZEbEZmQVExVndzRjdvQnVzTXA4YW95VnZSTzVn

6. scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24909797_201115210456444_6871387145744944406_n.jpg?oh=960f7db1365321e123a6c18b17b96d15&oe=5ACB6327

7. nasa.gov/centers/goddard/about/people/RSimmon.html

8. youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8wYukRsdQ

9. youtube.com/watch?v=knaW-GxMDXw

10. imgur.com/6XPJvF2

11. ih0.redbubble.net/image.199144701.2383/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg

12. planetruthblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/fe-air-map-2.jpg

13. planetruthblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/fe-air-map-4.png

14. flatearthscienceandbible.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/img_9688.jpeg?w=474

15. atlanteanconspiracy.com/2016/06/arctic-midnight-sun-proves-flat-earth.html
Youngastronomer

Con

Proof of round earth:

1) Horizon
Ships disappear bottom first suggesting Earth is curved. It's misconception that a telescope gets the ship in full view, in every video of the ships going across the horizon still shows them "sinking" down along the curve normally.

2) Photographs
It's a common myth yet deceptive lie that all of the pictures are fake, there are plenty of real pictures, they are just enhanced for detail. Although some are fake, they are not made from scratch.

3) Transmission Towers curving along with the water
https://gyazo.com...
If Earth were flat, the towers should have remained completely straight but they are not, proving the curvature.

4) You can't see everything with a telescope
If Earth were flat, you should be able to see United Kingdom with a telescope, but you cannot because of the curve.

5) The sun is not moving, Earth is.
Flat Earthers claim we should feel Earth moving, but 1000 mph on a planet with trillions of tonnes of mass is not a lot. It takes 24 hours to get a full rotation, it is very similar to sitting in a plane, you barely feel yourself moving, Earth is much bigger than a plane so we don't expect to feel the spin. Now, the sun is not moving because if it were moving around to different timezones, it should shrink out of view like any object getting further away, this proves the sun is stationery and we are the ones moving.

6) Chicago Skyline
Although my opponent thinks this is flat earth proof, this is actually round earth proof, had Earth been flat, it should have been in a full clear view. From 30 miles, by using a curvature calculator, only 487 feet should be missing and the tower is 1800 feet, already debunking flat earth.

7) Curvature
Flat Earthers seem impatient for a curvature (no further judgement). At 35,000 feet, the curve would barely be 2-3 degrees. To see the curve, you need to measure it or actually get much higher. However, fish eye lens can also be distorted to hide the curvature too! So for short, you need to go really high to see the curve.

8) The moon
Do you have 2 friends in UK and Australia? If you do, you will notice that the moon in both places appear different. The moon in the Southern Hemisphere is upside down, think about that. That means Australia is upside down too, but gravity keeps them in place. Like the sun, it slides over the horizon without changing, proving Earth's rotation.

[1] https://youtu.be...
[2] https://youtu.be...
[3] https://youtu.be...
[4] https://youtu.be...
[5] https://youtu.be...
[6] https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 2
SilverishGoldNova

Pro

1. Re: Ships over the horizon.

https://www.youtube.com...

It's because of perspective, not curvature.

You can do the exact same if you live near a beach.

2. Re: Photographs

So then, why not give me an example of a photograph that is not from NASA and doesn't show the curvature getting distorted every second?

3. Re: Lake Pontchartrain

This is simply an optical illusion. This video explains it pretty well

https://www.youtube.com...

4. Re: UK from a telescope

Atmospheric conditions such as, humidity, haze, pollution, refraction, etc are enough to obfuscate ones view. This is why we can't see everything from anywhere on a flat Earth. Need I say more?

5. Re: The sun is not moving.

I guess my opponent is attempting to sneak in the old sunsets argument.

The reason we have sunsets on a flat Earth is simply the result of perspective.

Here's a timelapse of the sun explaining so.

https://www.youtube.com...

6. Chicago Skyline

That wouldn't make it proof of a globe, that would just mean you have proven that not all of the tower should be missing. What about all of the other buildings? And also, don't forget that it would actually be 500-600 feet (depending on the height of the observer) at 30 miles, and the tower is 1450 feet. It appears you aren't afraid to lie to support your position. Voters should know this as well.

7. Curvature

Ok? And this proves the globe because?

8. Upsidedown moon

Here you go.

https://gyazo.com...

This is hypothetical but if the moon is spinning unlike the Earth then the moon being upsidedown would be very much possible.
Youngastronomer

Con

1) Ships over horizon:
This proves nothing more than we know. The gentleman in the video has questionnable honesty and only filmed items on the horizon or near it, not crossing it.

2) Photographs:
There's lots, here's one from Japan (Himawari-8 Weather Satellite) and not NASA. Since my opponent is a bit paranoid about NASA.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org...
Bear in mind this is an enhanced photograph and not fake CGI, that makes 1 other country a witness.

3) Transmission towers going over the curve.
No, it is the same situation as the ships, crossing the horizon line.

4) UK from a telescope:
It's the same situation as the ships and transmission towers, UK is over the curvature

5) The sun is not moving:
The video is misleading enough to film when the sun is covered up by clouds.
https://m.youtube.com...
Cameras can also make the sun look smaller, although in real life it stays the same.

6) Chicago Skyline:
Since my opponent thinks I'm lying, I'll show him where I got my data from.
http://dizzib.github.io...
Just by using a curve calculator, if you stood 6 feet tall, 485 feet of Chicago Skyline would get covered, not 500-600. Chicago Skyline stands 1451 feet, so for short: you will still see most of the building.

7) Arguably, there are some pictures from 300,000 feet that shows the curvature from the X-15 pilots.
https://www.google.co.uk...:

8) The moon is upside down in the Southern Hemisphere:
No wrong again, how can it go upside down if it is spinning sideways? And why is it right side up in UK but upside down in Australia? It appears my opponent has either made this up or rushed his time to research this (but I shouldn't judge). No, the moon is spinning sideways, not up and down.

[1] http://dizzib.github.io...
[2] https://www.popsci.com...
[3] http://www.smarterthanthat.com...
[4] https://www.google.co.uk...
[5] https://youtu.be...
[6] https://youtu.be...
[7] https://youtu.be...
[8] https://youtu.be...
Debate Round No. 3
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Youngastronomer 3 months ago
Youngastronomer
Mate, the vast majority of those images happen to be taken during cold weather which causes a mirage and on a lot of those images, you can barely see them.
Posted by Youngastronomer 3 months ago
Youngastronomer
Hm? You give me a distorted picture of a mirage but you can't find a picture of the same thing from the same distance in a clear day, why not? Also there are videos of buildings "dancing" around and even disappearing as expected.
https://youtu.be...
Playing from 14:46
Posted by SilverishGoldNova 3 months ago
SilverishGoldNova
Now now, Edl has won against some "globetards" as well. Besides, the fact he lost a debate doesn't mean the Earth is a globe.
Posted by Edlvsjd 3 months ago
Edlvsjd
Hm? Being a flat earther is retarded enough, you lost to several different "globetards" who were at least a few years older than me.

Saying that ive lost some debates doesn't prove that the earth is a ball.

If it's not a mirage then why is the city completely gone if the day is completely clear?

How do you know it is?

" I already know that globe earth is indeed a fact, and that's an end of it."

Because you seen it on tv, right? Gullible.
Posted by Edlvsjd 3 months ago
Edlvsjd
@youngastronomer that picture clearly states that it was taken from sleeping bear dunes park, some 200 miles away from either Warren dunes, where the picture that pro offers, and well over 200 miles to Chicago. At this point, your either incredibly unintelligent, or deceptive. I'm guessing the former.
Posted by Youngastronomer 3 months ago
Youngastronomer
Hopefully so.
Posted by SilverishGoldNova 3 months ago
SilverishGoldNova
Is. anyone gonna vote on this. debate?
Posted by SilverishGoldNova 3 months ago
SilverishGoldNova
Is. anyone gonna vote on this. debate?
Posted by Youngastronomer 3 months ago
Youngastronomer
The picture you flat earthers use is cherrypicked as hell. Making you dishonest, this is what you see in a clear day.
https://www.google.co.uk...:
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