The Instigator
emporer1
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Balacafa
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Earth would not have become the planet of the apes without the Simian Flu.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/21/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 456 times Debate No: 76780
Debate Rounds (5)
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emporer1

Pro

This debate will be about the Planet of the apes movie series (both old and new). I will be arguing that if the Simian Flu virus had never occurred the Apes never would have become the dominant species on the planet. Everything that occurred in Rise of the Planet of the Apes will remain the same with the exception of the ALZ-113 triggering a simian flu virus. In this alternate time line ALZ-113 has no effect on humans what so ever and Gen Sys abandons the ALZ project. However ALZ still causes Apes to gain heightened intelligence. I (Pro) will be arguing that (in this timeline where the Simian Flu never occurred) the Apes would fail to replace humanity as the planets dominant species and humans would remain in control. Con will be arguing that the Apes would have surpassed humanity and defeated it and that Apes would still become Earths dominant species. Good Luck.

First round Is acceptance.
Balacafa

Con

I accept the challenge. As con I will be arguing that the apes would still have taken over despite the fact that the Simian Flu does not exits.
Debate Round No. 1
emporer1

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate. I will proceed to list a number of reasons why humanity would defeat the Apes and remain dominant.

1. San Francisco/California stats.

San francisco currently houses 25 Apes in two Zoos. In Rise of the Planet of the Apes it is stated that Gen Sys aquired 8 Apes for use as test subject before the break out. It can be estimated that the fictional San Bruno ape Sanctuary held between 100 and 150 Apes. That brings the aproximate total to around 200 Apes. Many of those died during the battle with Police and Animal Control forces. Let's assume the 150-200 Apes made it out of San Francisco. SFPD currently has 2095 officers and California Highway Patrol has 7500 officers. CHP and SFPD combined have around 9600 officers. After the mass destruction caused by the Intelligent apes in SF it can be assumed that the public and Government would push for their elimination. The Apes would face an overwhelming number of Police officers. The police would hunt down and kill a large number of apes and Ceaser would be hard pressed to set up a colony.

2. Ape vs Human objective

Ceaser was shown to be very firm in ensuring that his Apes did not kill their human enemies. Human Governments would (especially as ape attacks increased in severity and frequency) order for the hunting and killing of Apes. As apes slowly advanced and discovered how to use human guns Media and Government pressure on the issue would increase and Military/Police forces would fight harder. Human Militias may even come into play as the populace attempts to fight out the Apes.

3. Gradual evolution.

In Rise of the Planet of the Apes, apes display minimal abilities to speak English (Ceaser is the only one who could and he was very limited) and no ability to utilize human firearms. In Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (ten years later) these abilities have improved but are not yet at human level skill. Centuries later (in thr original series) Apes have human level speech and gun use skills but still show no ability to use Human vehicles such as tanks, jets or cars. Horses remain their mode of transportation. Even centuries later Apes appear to have technology that mirrors Ancient Egypt or Sumeria in terms of clothes and architecture. He only significant advancement beyond those civilizations us guns (which appear to be more 1800's then modern). Humans are still far smarter with Far better technology.

4. Global Stats.

Let's say that every Ape on Earth becomes an intelligent Ape like Ceaser,Koba,Maurice,etc. Earth currently houses a population of about 500,000 great Apes (gorillas,Chimpanzees,orangutangs,etc.). There are over 7,000,000,000 humans in the world. That is 14,000 humans for every 1 Ape. Apes are vastly outnumbered and outgunned by humanity. San francisco currently has 852,000 people. That is more people than apes in the world.

5.Militaries

China (the world's largest military by manpower) has around 7,500,000 Soldiers. That is 15 chinese soldiers for every 1 Ape. And that is just China.

The US air force has around 2,207 Jets (global firepower). That means for every 250 Apes there would be 1 Jet plane (and that's just the US). Apes have displayed no ability to combat air power beyond Buck suicidal jumping onto a police helicopter that just happened to be in close enough range.

Helicopters. One police helicopter with a gunner on the side slaughtered several apes on the golden gate bridge. So imagine what hundred of military Attack helicopters could do. Russia and the US have hundreds of these each.

Tanks. Most nations that can be considered regional powers have thousands of tanks and even more AFVs (Armoured fighting vehicles). In Dawn apes manage to take down 1 AFV which had its top hatch conveniently open. This would not be the case with Military operated Tanks and AFVs especially years prior before Apes have even developed the ability to operate a firearm.

6. Location.

Most Apes are found in Africa with a number in South America as well. Nearly 4/5ths of Apes are in Africa. Apes cannot cross the ocean and can't simply get on a plane and fly to another country. It would be nearly impossible for Intelligent Apes to reach Island Nations and Isolated dictatorships (like North Korea). Apes don't blend in well in cities either.

7. Natural Predation.

Apes would be stuck in hiding in the forests and predators like Bears and Crocodiles (tigers even depending on the country) would pick of and kill stragglers. Many apes would fall prey to predators.

8. Disease

Apes are known to spread infections to each other that humans simply can't aquire. These infections are killers for many apes. Apes living in such close proximity would likely infect each other and large numbers would die. Apes unlike humans don't have disinfectant.

There are many reasons beyond those but to summarize this round I will say this. When Koba lead the Apes in an attack on the Humans in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (after ten years of evolution). The Human fighters were vastly outnumbered and yet (while they lost) they inflicted massive casualties and even more injuries upon the Apes. Those were untrained humans who were out numbered and outgunned. All they had that gave them an advantage was a Gate and a single RPG. Humans are just better builders and inventors.

Some of my sources:

http://science.time.com...

https://www2.fbi.gov...

Global Firepower (various pages)
Balacafa

Con

Balacafa forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
emporer1

Pro

Sadly, my opponent has forfeited. I reiterate all above arguments.
Balacafa

Con

Balacafa forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
emporer1

Pro

My opponent has forfeited again. I continue to reiterate all of my prior arguments. If my opponent has rebuttals I am happy to debate them and present new arguments in the last round.
Balacafa

Con

Balacafa forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
emporer1

Pro

I continue to reiterate all above arguments. I do not feel the need to present new ones this round as my opponent has forfeited again.

Vote Pro.
Balacafa

Con

Balacafa forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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