Eating meat in 1st world countries is usually gluttony.
Debate Rounds (4)
Brief intro, I'm upset about factory farming. I'm looking for something to blame. I lashed out at the nearest thing I could and tried to blame it. Yet, since 99% of animals are factory farmed in the USA and 77% of citizens are Christian, clearly there is no correlation nor causation between the two. 22% difference is too vast.
I needed to find something pan-human, something all humans have, Christian and otherwise. Since 99% is almost 100%.
I'm on a sort of quest to figure out what causes factory farming. Why does it exist? Anyways, rather than fight against the majority I decided perhaps there is something in the Bible that can help me understand the situation.
I think eating meat is a form of gluttony in the 1st world.
"Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things. " 
"For many, it is the taste, texture, or convenience of flesh. However, as Christians, we must ask whether such desires reflect Christian values. Is eating meat the right thing to do, or does it reflect a lack of compassion?" 
"19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;" 
"Gluttony – excess in eating and drinking: “for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags” (Proverbs 23:21). " 
The Bible states that gluttony is to be avoided and there is consequences. Yet, does this match reality? I would say it does.
First, lets look at world hunger, yet it exists.  One pound of beef requires 20 ibs of grain to produce.  "Producing one pound of animal protein requires 100 times more water than producing one pound of grain protein." 
Not only that but grains are more calorie dense with over 2x the calories per weight. 
Grains are also the cheapest form of calories.  Grains are cost less than half as much to fill up a person.
Alright, so you are being gluttonous by eating meat. People are hungry, eating meat is harsher on the environment depriving others and not being a good steward of the land. Meat is expensive too.
What about the consequences though? Are Americans paying for their sin? Yes, they are.
"More than one-third (34.9% or 78.6 million) of U.S. adults are obese. [Read abstract Journal of American Medicine (JAMA)]
Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer, some of the leading causes of preventable death." 
God is punishing Americans for their gluttonous sins. The penalty is obesity, heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and some cancers. Yet, does this make us poor? Yes, it is. 
"The estimated annual medical cost of obesity in the U.S. was $147 billion in 2008 U.S. dollars; the medical costs for people who are obese were $1,429 higher than those of normal weight." 
There we have it, eating meat is usually gluttony in 1st world countries. We are paying for our sins in both body and money. Americans are not treating their bodies as a temple. Repent sinners.
Thanks for the debate. God bless.
Gluttony is defined as "habitual greed or excess in eating." Now, I am a meat-eater, but I dont eat out of habit, nor am i eating too much (im 16 and ony weigh 51). I would expect much of the population shares substainal common ground with me. Therefore, when first world people eat meet, it does not match up with the definition of gluttony.
Also, you mentioned that the bible says gluttony is a sin. However, the bible does not PROVE that gluttony is a sin, so you are basing your arguement on the 'appeal to authority' fallacy. Also, you are assuming a god exists, with is somewhat problematic, but I can work with it.
Ealier you stated that "God is punishing people for gluttonous sins". This is a hugly invalid claim, as this is no sign or miracle from god- we know why many of us are fat, and there is no need for a supernatural explaination.
Also, It is a well known fact that it takes up alot of resources to eat meat, but that would not entail why it is gluttonous to eat meat. In debates with this well used premises and conclusions to make a logical flow of thoughts. Here is your arguement-
P1- Eating meat uses up alot of resources
P2- Eating meat causes alot of health problems
Conclusion- Eating meat if therefore gluttous
I just dont see the logical flow from premise 2 to the conclusion. And can yoy explain the meaning of the bible quote "Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things".
I may agree that eating meat is greedy, as in doing so, we are using up resources that could be used to end world hunger, but it wouldn't be gluttonous, per se.
The word gluttony usually as negative connotations, but i fail to see the truth behind this. Sure it may make you fat, unhealthy and diabetic, but what it you dont mind those consequences. What if i think that eating meat is worth all those problems. What if you arent christian.
For your sake, Ill use some biblical arguments if that was what you were looking for. In the bible, god apparently designed humans, right? Well then how come he designed us are omnivores? How come he didn't mind it when a lamb or two got sacrificed, but now you say that he cares if we eat meat. Also, god permitted meat-eating in the days of jesus- didn't he give a thousand people bread and fish or something? Fish is meat, so why would jesus give people meat is it was soo bad?
"Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
I think God made it clear we were supposed to be herbivores. Also, the many references in the Bible comparing humans as sheep. I don't recall sheep hunting in packs, killing, and eating large herbivores. In fact, a false prophet is compared to a ravenous wolf.  Wolves eat meat, sheep don't.
People look for extraordinary miracles. Yet, most of the Bible is ordinary happenings.
"If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred, and you together are that temple." 
As you can see people are destroyed by God for destroying God's temple. In this case destroying the temple via gluttony. God destroys the person via obesity, heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.
Another way to put this is to destroy your body is test God. Eating a bunch of junk food is little different than attempting to jump off a cliff.
I mean if you want the logical and scientific route as to why your body is destroyed just look up heterocyclic amines, intramyocellular lipids, saturated fat and blood viscosity, cholesterol, and so forth.
Gluttony is defined as "habitual greed or excess in eating." Now, I am a meat-eater, but I dont eat out of habit, nor am i eating too much (im 16 and ony weigh 51). I would expect much of the population shares substainal common ground with me. Therefore, when first world people eat meet, it does not match up with the definition of gluttony."Billjunior
How much meat do you think we need? We don't need any! Any amount of meat eating in today's world of superabundance is gluttony.
"I may agree that eating meat is greedy, as in doing so, we are using up resources that could be used to end world hunger, but it wouldn't be gluttonous, per se." Billjunior
You admit yourself that eating meat is greedy, yet how is this not gluttonous? People seem to mindlessly consume copious amounts of meat. If you watch the Forks over Knives diet we are eating way more meat than we did in the 50s. Americans have idolized meat, their God is their belly. God is destroying them for their sin.
People seem to think when God acts that its all miracles, yet personally I've never witnessed a miracle I recognized. By their very nature miracles are extremely rare.
"Also, god permitted meat-eating in the days of jesus- didn't he give a thousand people bread and fish or something? Fish is meat, so why would jesus give people meat is it was soo bad?" Billjunior
That was back like 2,000 years ago or so. That fish wasn't factory farmed. Neither was it gathered by industrial trawlers. Back then, they didn't have the superabundance associated with 1st world countries of today. Do you not see there is vast differences between a few events in the Bible feeding a relatively small amount of people, compared to millions of 1st world citizens mindlessly consuming fish from industrial trawlers.
How far can we stray from the Lord without dire consequences? We can't go back to the garden of Eden, but we can abstain from eating meat. We can incorporate more fruit into our diets.
Thanks for debating.
Let me ask you this- what is wrong with factory farming, and why is it that 3rd world countries can get off with factory farming while 1st world countries cannot.
Today we have refrigerators, freezers, large tractors, more reliable transportation, and many other factors than minimize the chances of somebody starving to death in a 1st world country. I find consuming meat is usually gluttony due to the excess strain on resources. A person is being immoral and greedy when eating meat, when there is so many alternatives.
Eating vegetarian, absence of all meats, is healthy and safe.  As for proving God exists, does it really matter? Even if we prove God does not exist, people will still believe in God. People will still read the Bible and pray to God. The definition of gluttony will not change regardless of God's existence.
I thank my opponent for continuing this debate.
I quote you "I find consuming meat is usually gluttony due to the excess strain on resources."
Your reason why eating meat is invalid, as gluttony, by definition, cannot be caused due to the excess strain on resources. The definition doesnt say anything about resources.
You said that eating meat is only permissible if you are going to starve. However, you contradict yourself by saying that it was ok for jesus to produce a 1000 fish and feed it to people who are only hungry, they are not starving, yet they eat meat.
Also, you state that if you destroy "gods temple/your body", god will destroy that person. But what does destroying your body even mean? This is a subjective question, and because we would like objective and non-arbeitrary answers, God couldn't come up with the 'correct' answer, even is all his supposed power. Its like if like asking the question "which painting is better? da vinci's mona lisa or van gogh's starry night?" God could simply not give a 'correct' answer.
Also, being greedy is not synomynous with being gluttonous. Just because we dont need to eat meat and we eat alot of it doesnt make the act gluttonous. If you can prove that eating meat is habitual and excess in eating, then that would make meat-eating gluttonous.
Also, you still havent proved that being gluttonous is a bad thing. You can use all the bible quote you want but you cannot base your argument on an appeal to authority. If being gluttonous is bad because it harms your body, then it is not the meat eating that is bad in itself, i would be the people who overeats that is the bad thing, not the act of eating meat.
Way back in the past, when Jesus fed the fish to people, it was a third world country. They didn't have large diesel tractors back then.
"Full Definition of greed : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed"
Thanks for the debate.
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