The Instigator
Nik
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Angrypants66
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

Ecstasy should be downgraded to a class B drug

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Angrypants66
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2009 Category: News
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,931 times Debate No: 7072
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (4)

 

Nik

Pro

Professor David Nutt recently recommended that Ecstasy should be downgraded from a class A to a class B drug. I am FOR this. And I shall allow my opponent to start the argument. I am not arguing that ecstasy should be legalised and that its not harmful.
Angrypants66

Con

As a previous ecstasy user, I can safely say that ecstasy should in no way be changed or legalized. How its popularity has grown among pot-users is amazingly significant and with that comes the false appearance it is not as bad as it actually is. Now, I will not lie, personally I will say ecstacy is one awesome drug, it is fun and I have a great time on it. However it plays an enormous toll on the body as shown by "the day after" where you feel like dying, like a zombie. This is because your body is depleted of all the cells that make you feel good because ecstasy made you use too many and that caused your body to have a lot less as well as a lot dead.
Anyways, while it's 'fun', that doesn't make it safe or healthy. Tell one benefit ecstasy can produce to society, just one. It has NONE. It does not benefit society, it only harms it through volience and breaking key laws to get this great substance, especially taken the addiction that comes from this drug. It was hard for me to quit, and I've quit things like alcohol, cigerates, and I even stopped meth. I thought ecstasy was the hardest, yes even harder than meth. This can cause to widespread theft and panic, most of society only enjoying the high then begging for the next. That harms society, and thus cannot be legalized.
As for health, everyone knows about the 'holes in the brain' ecstasy causes. My best friend Kc 'rolled' (did XTC) for a week straight. He is know illiterate and has massive holes in his brain. How can something so harmful be lowered on the drug scale? How can something with such addiction be lowered? How can something so harmful to society be lowered?
Anyone who has done this drug can verify it is powerful, so why lower it?

Thankyou.
Debate Round No. 1
Nik

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate, but I would first like to outline the differences between a B class drug and an A class drug, simply because I am not sure whether the classification system is the same as in the US as in the UK. A class A drug is considered the most harmful category of illegal drug it can carry a seven year prison sentence and an unlimited fine for possession and a life prison sentence for dealing. A class B drug is a drug whose effects on the body and society are considered very harmful but not as harmful as class A drugs, possession is five years, unlimited fine. Dealing is 14 years.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk...

Now I completely agree with my opponent on how harmful ecstasy can be, and yes I have also spent many a restless day nursing a hideous comedown and cursing the day I was born, and though I have no friends whom have been seriously harmed by the drug I am aware on how badly it can permanently affect the brain. But the question is, is it as harmful as the other drugs in its category, and the answer without a doubt is no. The active chemical in ecstasy is MDMA, the deaths per year diagnosed as MDMA being the sole drug responsible for the death is averaged between 10-17 per year (UK statistics) where the deaths for cocaine are 243 and heroin around 876. As you can see ecstasy is no way in the same league as the other players in the A-class group.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

Infact if you would look at this interesting graph

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk...

you will see that not only is ecstasy considered far less harmful than heroin or cocaine, its also considered less harmful than alcohol and tobacco which as I'm sure everyone knows are legal.

The point of the drug classification scheme is to create awareness of the different types of drugs and the different dangers they pose, as well as punishing abusers in proportion to harmfulness of the drug.

Ecstasy is dangerous, it does kill, but should a drug that is classified as less harmful then alcohol have a life sentence attached to it? I don't think so.
Angrypants66

Con

Well the fact that this is continental is a bit of a factor, but I accept the UK statistics proposed.
Using the same data, I'd like to say that LSD, which is also a class A drug, the deaths are very similar. LSD would never be considered to be taken off, despite its lack of deaths if you will. So using that for ecstasy is irrelivant.

Besides another reason it's a higher level drug is the rape factor. No other drug can be used for rape quite like ecstasy. There are thousands of stories of woman getting a ecstasy pill slipped into their drink and then being raped. They wouldn't techinally go on the death factor, but they are a victim of the drug non-the-less. Anyways, there is no other drug that can be used (at least on such a higher scale) of affecting individuals that chose NOT to take the drug.

Ecstasy has a powerful toll on both body and mind, it is dangerous especially to those not knowing what they are doing and you can easily overdose on your first time. It affects others as well as the user. While it is not the identical twin of heroine (I believe which should be on like an "s" level), ectasy still rivils that of LSD and close to that of meth and cocaine. The only problem is that is still is a relitively new drug, with a staggering increase in popularity, so therefore there can't be the "drug lords" and all the excessive deaths as compared to others because it is not as well known and especially around the drug community.

Also, in the U.S in the state of Oklahoma (my state), they actually charge you with one account of man slaughter for every one ecstasy pill you have. So the charge here is much more sever.
Debate Round No. 2
Nik

Pro

I would in this stage of the debate just like to outline some flaws in my opponents argument.

Firstly concerning popularity my opponent said that there is a staggering increase in popularity, but then my opponent said its still not well known. I would just like to point out that he was very right about it being increasing in popularity, but not well known? since when is the the post popular clubbing drug in the world not well known, Trust me I've been to Ibiza. Ecstasy is huge, allot more people take it than other class A drugs. Yet the death rates are still far lower than its fellow class A drugs. LSD is considered a class A drug for reasons other than Death rates, its a class A drug because of the potential harm you can cause to yourself and others while under the influence. People on ecstasy are not harmful to others, trust me, in fact your a far nicer person!

Another thing I would like to point out is how you call ecstasy a rape drug. I think you have ecstasy confused with Rohypnol, which is considered the date rape drug of choice, not ecstasy, in fact ecstasy is not even on the date rape drug list. And the drug that is most frequently implicated in substance assisted sexual assault is, well, our old friend alcohol.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

And I thank my opponent for outlining that Oklahoma charges ecstasy possession on the same level as manslaughter, But keep in mind that Oklahoma also has the death penalty, which says more about the states barbaric penalties rather than the danger of ecstasy.
Angrypants66

Con

First I'll attack then rebuild.

The first so caled "fallacy" is no fallacy. Something can be increasing in popularity without it actually being popular yet. Once again however this creates hardship in this debate because ecstasy is not so popular in America, especially depending on the state. For example Utah, my homestate, ecstasy is HUGE. In fact, Utah is the 3rd largest rave scene in the world. However, in Oklahoma I practically have had to introduce it since no one has any idea about it. But debating about the street popularity of the drug is pretty irrelivant, and if I was the one to bring in it I'll drop that arguement as it is insenificant.
The point I was trying to more so push was it is not known as well scientific-wise. The damages, the effects, the chemical breakdowns, they are not so well known. If you look around online, you'll find numerous half-finished reports on ecstasy since it is not researched so well. All I am pointing out is the danagers are not all the way known, so therefore since it is a 'mysterous drug' currently, it would seem reasonable to leave it as class A till more information is gathered.

While I do agree that individuals do not cause harm to others on the most part, but I believe those on LSD usually do not either. The reason LSD more so in on the class A scale is because the effect it puts on your body, the "trip" if you will. That is similar to ecstasy. The trip is pretty hardcore, and thus fits more on a class A drug.

There is also the fact ectsasy is contructed by people who use the drug or apart of the drug world. I highly doubt a scientist with a PHD in chemisty is making your ecstasy pills. More than likely, its someone with a fried brain because they sample there own goods. People like the ones you seen on the internet in meth labs and such. Thus, theses are people with not only no previous chemisty or pharmisutical background, but people with a lesser mind from either repeated abuse of the substance they make or because they are ON the substance while making it. For example, if I was making a hundred cookies for my friends, I would eat a couple of those cookies. Thus, since the proceedure making ecstasy is dangerous, the drug is even more dangerous, thus leaving it a class A. Weed and Shrooms are not class A a lot so because they are natural and grown, unlike ecstasy, meth, and LSD

My opponent brings up alcohol as being more dangerous. I attack this with the simple versus of trips. Anyone who has done both (I'm guessing my opponent has) can tell you ecstasy is much, much more extreme in its trip. However this is not a debate over alcohol, but ecstasy and should therefore stay on ecstasy.

I finish with a question to my opponent, and that is what are the benefits from taking ecstasy to a class B over a class A? You say it'll lower the punishments and etc, well that is negative. Your allowing more people to get away with it, and you will increase the flow of the drug, hense further fueling the drug industry which in turn further promotes crime and poverty. All these come from lowering it, however tell me how turning this drug to a class B will do anything benefitial to society. Maybe your points are valid for turning it into a class B (not saying they are), maybe it does fit more as a class B (however I disagree), but none of that beneifts society. It may benefit the 'partier' and the drug lords, but neither of those produce moral worth or help society and the greater good. By agree with the Aff, you are in turn harming society and thus humanity as a whole.

Thankyou, sorry for the delayed responce, I'll try to speed it up.

*I'd also like to state the Oklahoma law I only said as a general knowledge I should have stated that because it was no way linked to the arguement, my bad.
Debate Round No. 3
Nik

Pro

For my final argument I would just like to shortly summarise and reinforce my case.

Ecstasy should without a doubt be lowered to a class B drug, the purpose of the classification system is to punish offenders appropriately and raise awareness on the dangers of different drugs. By refusing to drop the classification system we are misinforming the public on the harm of ecstasy, the classification system is also used in the knowledge that there will always be many drug offenders, and by correctly classifying drugs we can steer as many people away from the major drugs such as heroin whom me and my opponent both agree is a far worse drug than ecstasy.

Ecstasy maybe a chemical drug not a natural drug, but due to the location and process of manufacture, 80% of the worlds MDMA is made in Belgium and the Netherlands, in surprisingly clean and sterile clandestine laboratories, MDMA is universally very pure, unless it is in a pill form in which case it may of been harmfully adulterated. However this is a debate about the drug ecstasy and not the adulterated chemicals that accompany it in the pill form. It is the adulteration which makes many drugs especially harmful, and since in proportion to other drugs on the market it is generally pure, it is far safer.

I would just like to Finnish my debate pointing out that the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, did recently take a vote on weather to advise the government to change the classification of the drug. Although it was not unanimous, it was decided in favour of this. It was subsequently dismissed by the home secretary, a woman of absolutely no authority on drug use or its science. So the science does add up even if the drug is relatively unknown we cannot make laws on what we might know in the future but what we know now. The leading authorities believe the drug should be a class B, perhaps we should let them do their jobs, and listen to them.

Thank you to my opponent for debating me and best of luck in the voting period!

Cheers
Angrypants66

Con

I have only 3 minutes to do this so it will looked rushed as it is. My dearest sorrow is regarded.

I'd like to say that changing Ecstasy to a class B dug does in no way benefit society as a whole. It makes the drug appear to be more usable and more safe, when in fact it is not. Brown University says the drug "Is completely dangerous in all aspects of the known research on the drug... Especially in teenagers, the most common users."
The drug is dangerous and should not be changed to a class B. It says in the ranks of LSD and Meth and in way should be lower. It is man made and thus open to many errors on the street, causes more drug sorruption in society, and changing it does no benefits.
Sorry I'm out of time. Thankyou.
If you value society you will vote Neg, thankyou.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by i8JoMomma 6 years ago
i8JoMomma
legalize em all
Posted by edwardfung 7 years ago
edwardfung
I have just purchased a pack of Trip2Night from Narcomundo.com. I paid around 30 dollars and the shipping was free. I emailed them to see how long it will take to get to me, but they have not emailed me back yet. The first week end night I get it I will try it and let you know if I like it or not. I will concentrate more on the things I do not like since the web sites selling it are promoting it enough and that is not my job. My job is to let the world know if there are any areas I do not like. I will get back to this after I try it.
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
What do you mean, "technically".
I want pure lol but it's really hard to find here, besides my town has recently started cracking down on drugs hardcore so it don't matter.
But they were speed based... But believe me I've rolled alot in my life and I still come down on pure hardcore. Idk how many pure ones I've had, but I know I've had some...
It'd still make you come down though because your so depleted of syritone, the things that make you happy. So you just hardcore depressed.

And I thought of another arguement... The fact that XTC is almost always combined with other Class A drugs. Almost always. I'd say in the U.S about 15, maybe 20 to 1 will have another drug.
Posted by Nik 8 years ago
Nik
mate, change your dealer, your obviously getting alot of speed in your gear, the purer, the less the come down, technically pure crystal wont give you a come down at all, "technically"
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
Funny thing is though that rolling last weekend made me realize why I quit in the first place.
The toll from the "day after you roll" shows why XTC is a class A. It's been two days now and I still feel like crap, I can barely focus enough to do this. I think anyone that has taken XTC before would agree that the power invested from XTC is easily class A.
Ugh... I really do feel bad though, it's like exchanging about 4-6 hours of amazingness to 48 hours of hardcore depression and sleep-deprivedness :( ... Not worth it...
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
See I;m rolling now. Really hardcore. I think everything sound be the same idk why but it should.
Like Jesus.
Cuz he's cool like once he told me if I was a bird, he would give me a job. Twice.
And thats only cuz he's organic fruit.
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
I'm rolling tonight. I wanna get on and post a comment..
Hahaha lets hope ;)
Posted by Nik 8 years ago
Nik
Its cool angrypants, thanks for the debate. Wish I was winning it though! lol!

I think im going to bomb this weekend, to get over this defeat!

just like to say thanks to everyone who read our debate.
Posted by Chuckles 8 years ago
Chuckles
you guys both did a good job!
and Pants, you should have done it while rolling that would be awesome!

and an FYI for anyone interested, there's no real correlation between a drug being man-made or natural and the danger associated with it. They all have chemicals and they all can be dangerous if used wrong. Nature has its poisons and man has made some more, but synthetic drugs are not necessarily more dangerous than natural.
Posted by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
Wow I got that off with 2 seconds remaining. Talk about close.
Nik I'm sorry my last speech was so rushed through, I've has a lot going on with my actual debate in my class and with this party I'm hosting and the divorce with my Mom and her ex husband. I appologize. I did my best and the sad thing is I did a bunch of research for my last speech because I had done none previously. The only problem with this debate is their is an enormous lack of research on ecstasy, and not many points for the Neg.
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Vote Placed by Angrypants66 8 years ago
Angrypants66
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resolutionsmasher
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