The Instigator
dbaldwin1215
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
notpolicydebategod
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Elected officials should, to some degree, be middle class citizens.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 954 times Debate No: 3707
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (9)

 

dbaldwin1215

Pro

Rather than, having all these big wigs up in Congress and the White House, I think it is about time we have a senator or representative who FULLY understands the hardships that go on in everyday life for working class Americans. Take gas prices for example. In my town, at the nearest gas station (about 5 minutes up the road) Regular Unleaded fuel is $3.39. I think the reason behind for the hike in gas prices is because our President is simply unaware of what is going on in the world. The Bush family is an extremely wealthy family. Where do they get most of this wealth from? Oil Income. This just goes to show you how oblivious our President is about the increasing oil problem. Perhaps he is enjoying it, for every time the price of a barrel of oil hikes, he gets more money. Just about 3 days ago, there was an article on CNN.com about the President's earnings in 2007. It was revealed that the President made $719,274 for the tax year. Of these earnings, they paid only 221,635 in taxes. That's a little less than $500,000 on the year for 2007. And this is the guy we chose to run our country, and keep our economy in check for the past eight years?

Also released yesterday were the taxes paid by presidential candidate John McCain. It was said that he is among the richest in Congress. The McCain family is said, by last year's Senate financial forms, to be worth $36.5 million. It is estimated that his wife, Cindy McCain, is worth over $100 million.

Now, although it may look like I'm saying we should get some average idiot off the street, I would like to stress that that is not at all what I am saying. I just believe that we should choose a President who is more "in tune" with the economic problems facing Americans today.
notpolicydebategod

Con

First off I'd like to conceed the fact that George Bush is a complete idiot who has driven the country into a huge hole within 8 years, which has got to be some record. The fact that George Bush is a horrible president is just simply undebateable.

But the fact is that you don't need to struggle with the economy to understand the trouble. The president just got a bill passed to help Africans with disease. He doesnt have an African disease. Hillary and all her liberal friends support welfare but they're all super rich. Congress just spent a bunch of our tax dollars on an economic stimulus plan for people that make under $80,000. These people understand.

McCain makes a ton of money but he supports health care tax cuts and the economic stimulus plan. McCain is helping out with the economic crisis and he doesnt have to be struggling with money to understand the crisis.

We should choose a president who has good positions and can motivate and encourage Congress to do a good job and pass helpful bills. They will certainly know what is going on. They have plenty of people briefing them and they watch CNN and ABC constantly. They know what is going on in America more than any other person in the world.

And no president will have to pay gas prices. They have a huge motorcade. They wont pay a mortgage because theyll live in the White House, which has been paid off for a little while. And theyll have a personal chef. Electing a middle class person will not effect anything. Theyll not have to pay for much of anything anyway.

And if you want to be president you'll have to have experience or you'll simply not do a very good job. You would have to be a governor or a Congressperson. They make a lot of money. So you'd have to sacrifice experience for a middle class president.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
dbaldwin1215

Pro

The problem is, that I don't think Bush nor McCain understand the problem at hand. They've cut the rates almost 7 times in the past 5 months. That isn't doing much good for us in the long run. We need a president who can understand what needs to be done to help our country in the long run. By the way, your first paragraph proved my point. President Bush - The Bush family rather - is too rich to even understand what the middle class Americans are going through. I understand that being the President of the United States has its perks; however, there was a time when the country was being run outside of the White House and Capitol Building. These congressmen are not in session for the whole year. They should get paid according to the amount of work they do, and the quality of the work they do, the quality of work thus far by the Bush Administration has been nothing but pitiful.

My family watches CNBC daily and even though the the Dow Jones Industrial and NASDAQ go up, the price of a barrel of oil goes up. This is not how it should work. Every time the DJI would go up, the price of crude oil would drop. As for watching ABC and CNN, please inform me as to why President Bush was completely oblivious of the fact that gas prices had hit $4.00 a gallon. That, to me, does not sound like a President who watches the news or gets briefed regularly.

The only thing you really need to be President of the United States is a good education of world politics, and be in tune with the country's flaws. Also, one would need to have good leadership skills. With experience, you gain more knowledge of these two things, but it's like moving up in any other career field, with more experience comes more skills.

Thank you and vote Pro. I urge you.
notpolicydebategod

Con

And

And

+ I agree. We do need a plan that can help us in the long run economically. but that's exactly what we need. The president or Congress being middle class wont help them think of a plan. They need a good plan that will help in the long term. If they were middle class, theyd have less money and no plan. There is no substantial reason why having less money would help you create a congressional bill to helppeople with less money.

+ I hardly proved your point. I dont think there has ever been a middle class president and many presidents have managed to do a good job while having money

+ "These congressmen are not in session for the whole year. They should get paid according to the amount of work they do, and the quality of the work they do, the quality of work thus far by the Bush Administration has been nothing but pitiful."
- Um...Ok...what's this got to do with the debate?

+ please inform me as to why President Bush was completely oblivious of the fact that gas prices had hit $4.00 a gallon.
- i cant. but look at hillary, barack and john. they all are very much aware of high gas prices. none of them drive themselves around. proving u obviously dont have to be middle class and pay gas prices to be an elected official that knows the hurt on americans.

Being middle class would obviously not effect you creating a plan to help Americans.
And there are a few points of mine you did not answer. I answered all of your points. Please answer all of my points.
- Bush helps with African disease but he's not a third world African. Doesnt this prove that you dont need the particular experience to create a bill?
- Hillary and Barack both have plans to help Americans with the economy but they both have millions. Doesnt this show you that you dont need to be middle class to make plans for the middle class?
- No president will have to pay gas prices. They have a huge motorcade. They wont pay a mortgage because theyll live in the White House, which has been paid off for a little while. And theyll have a personal chef. Electing a middle class person will not effect anything. Theyll not have to pay for much of anything anyway.
- If you want to be president you'll have to have experience or you'll simply not do a very good job. You would have to be a governor or a Congressperson. They make a lot of money. So you'd have to sacrifice experience for a middle class president.

You don't have to be middle class to understand the current economy. I have proven this. This would be a great loss to give up great leaders because of their economic situation. Imagine if we didnt have FDR, Truman or Washington. And I'd have to say Clinton did a pretty good job for the middle class and he's loaded.

Thank you for reading and judging this debate. I hope you side with me on this.
Debate Round No. 2
dbaldwin1215

Pro

Okay, not meaning to ignore any of what you said in the first round, sir, but I'd like to turn this debate in a different direction (while it's on my mind) then I will return to the topic at hand. The Bush family made approximately $720,000 in 2007, yet President Bush, who is supposed to be a role model for the future leaders of our country, only donated around $100,000 to charities and other organizations. And this is the LEADER of our country? The man we want our children and younger siblings to look up to? I think the problem with our congressmen and leaders of our country is that they're greedy. Not just the president, I think it boils down to the state level as well.
"These congressmen are not in session for the whole year. They should get paid according to the amount of work they do, and the quality of the work they do, the quality of work thus far by the Bush Administration has been nothing but pitiful."
- Um...Ok...what's this got to do with the debate?
^ What this has to do with the debate is that I don't think McCain deserves as much money as he got in '07.

To answer your points.
1) I haven't seen anything about President Bush helping third world countries fighting disease, except for Darfur. There are many more countries than Darfur who need help. My school is trying to help Uganda improve living conditions and obtain peace there.
2) Sure, Hilary and Obama both have plans, but so did President Bush. It's following through on those plans that he had trouble with. We need a President who will stick to their guns and actually listen to the people. As for them not paying for their own food and necessities, wasn't there a time when the President was NOT working out of the White House? Therefore, they did not have personal chefs, or drivers paying for everything. Plus, they were making A LOT less money. Their pay hasn't even risen in proportion to the rising prices of food and everything else in everyday life. What is wrong with that..? Surely, President Bush is undeserving.
notpolicydebategod

Con

notpolicydebategod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
dbaldwin1215

Pro

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should vote in my favor. Do you want to vote for someone who cannot keep up a debate?
notpolicydebategod

Con

notpolicydebategod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Paradigm_Lost 9 years ago
Paradigm_Lost
"You know what's funny? Even dropping two rounds, notpolicydebategod (love the name, by the way) won this debate."

Not only is PRO's position completely against liberty and freedom, his points did not connect well. We heard tangent after tangent, but hardly anything substantive to the debate. I voted CON.
Posted by SexyLatina 9 years ago
SexyLatina
You know what's funny? Even dropping two rounds, notpolicydebategod (love the name, by the way) won this debate.
And he won because Pro, even with his two extra rounds, didn't get around to addressing about half of Con's points and failed to refute Con's attacks on HIS points.
Instead, he went on a tangent about role models and didn't make any connection between a bad presidency, and a non-middle-class president. He said that Bush was a bad president and so that shows that ALL presidents who aren't middle-class are bad, but then, when we ACTUALLY look back at past examples of rich presidents (most, if I'm not mistaken), we see that alot of them were very good.

And on that charity point, I'm going to ask dbaldwin1215, how much have YOU donated to charity? I doubt that it was $100,000. When you look at it like that, George Bush just seems like a saint, now, doesn't he? He donated about 1/5 of his net income (minus taxes, the figures provided in the debate). I don't think many people do that, actually. George Bush isn't necessarily a bad person, just an ineffective president.

Also in your last speech, you said that you didn't think that John McCain should have made as much money as he did, and I'm just going to put this out there, how does that have to do with a middle-class president? Are you saying that presidents should be paid less, or are you saying that rich people make bad presidents?

You also say that you don't think they "understand the problem at hand", but the thing that you're missing is, George Bush has some of the best and most current information in the country, and so he probably understands the problem alot better than you do.

Anyways, that's all I've got time or willingness for, so...get better, dbaldwin1215. You lose.
Posted by Kierkegaard 9 years ago
Kierkegaard
Although Con dropped two rounds, Pro made absolutely no sense.

Thus my vote is for Con.
Posted by ptc 9 years ago
ptc
I think dbaldwin1215 wants to convey that a person who experiences the problems himself (or herself), understands the real pain better (than someone who comes to know about those problems from others or from books/resources). And so the prior would make more genuine and persistent efforts towards solving those issues.

But frankly (and no offense meant), notpolicydebategod has made more convincing and to the point arguments, as far as the debate goes, so I have to vote for CON.
Posted by Shorack 9 years ago
Shorack
notpolicydebategod is one of the weirdest libertarian ever imo. he seems quite in favor of government. :')
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
To quote Con -

"Hillary and all her liberal friends support welfare but they're all super rich."

This is a good thing. Even though they may be wealthy they realise most people aren't so fortunate and sometimes need help to help themselves.
Posted by dbaldwin1215 9 years ago
dbaldwin1215
i think that my opponent needs to post a rebuttal..?
Posted by Lara.S 9 years ago
Lara.S
I think elected officials should be homeless people. Then maybe they wouldn't do so much damage.
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