The Instigator
WampumDP
Pro (for)
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The Contender
imperialchimp
Con (against)
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Electoral College

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 299 times Debate No: 90455
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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WampumDP

Pro

The Electoral College is an important part of the American Government, and without it the tyranny of the majority would be allowed to reign supreme. The framers of the Constitution put the Electoral College in our Nation for that very reason. To put it simply, our government is a Republic, where the people are represented by representatives, rather than a Democracy, where the people rule directly.
imperialchimp

Con

-The Electoral college has nothing to do with the difference between a democracy and a republic. In a republic, you can vote for your leaders. Leaders can still be voted for by using the popular vote system. Historical democracies weren't exactly democratic since only a few educated men could vote. It was practically a republic.

-The electoral college was made for states to represent the people.

"The Electoral College is an important part of the American Government, and without it the tyranny of the majority would be allowed to reign supreme."
-The Electoral College was actually made to make the voting system fair. For example, it didn't want states with higher populations to dominate the voting system. It also better represented the state. It was not made to reduce the people's power.

-Another problem of Electoral College is that electors don't have to vote for the politicians that they are expected to vote for.

-If there is a tie in the electoral vote, popular vote isn't taken in account. The house of representatives vote for the leader (Adams vs Jackson 1824). This gives the government more power.

-The founding fathers were politicians, not mathematicians. They really didn't know how to make the voting system fair.
Debate Round No. 1
WampumDP

Pro

I would argue the difference between a Republic and a Democracy is a very important part of the Electoral College. Total democracy uses the popular vote, where whichever opinion is more popular is the one that gets represented. The idea that the popular opinion is the "right" one is simply untrue.

Electors were established for good reason. While it might seem aristocratic, they exist to use their own judgement on who will best represent the people they represent. The electors exist because the people alone cannot always be trusted to hold all the power.

This argument you make about making the voting system "fair" is invalid. You are in agreement with me, since the Electoral College was made indeed to make the voting system fair, and I never argued that it didn't.
imperialchimp

Con

The electors we have are corrupt. They are no better than the majority of the people because they too can be can be trusted. The longer politicians stay in government, the more likely they are going to be corrupt. Sure they were established to represent the people, but the only problem is that they really don't. They can easily be bribed by big companies, just like how presidents are bribed. You are pretty much saying that the electors are good people, which they are obviously not.

"This argument you make about making the voting system "fair" is invalid. You are in agreement with me, since the Electoral College was made indeed to make the voting system fair, and I never argued that it didn't."

-I'M arguing that the electoral college isn't fair.
-The current electoral college isn't working because although it was made to be fair, it isn't even a fair system.
Debate Round No. 2
WampumDP

Pro

While the Electoral College is far from perfect, I would argue it is a better solution to keep our current corrupt system rather than get rid of it in exchange for an equally corrupt system with significant flaws that I've already brought up.

"The Electoral College was actually made to make the voting system fair. For example, it didn't want states with higher populations to dominate the voting system. It also better represented the state. It was not made to reduce the people's power."

Here we can see your claim that the electoral college was designed to make the voting system fair. The popular vote, by it's very idea and application is not fair, since a majority of 51% beats a minority of 49%. While I will not deny the Electoral College is not perfect, and it would be better if electors could not be swayed, it is by far better than the alternative.
imperialchimp

Con

Just because it was made to be fair, doesn't mean it is fair. The Electoral College is practically just a popular vote, but with electors. There could easily be a case where one candidate has just one more elector voting for him than the other candidate. A majority of electors beats a minority of electors. It's no better than a popular vote in this situation.

One percent of the US population is roughly 3 million. It is not a small difference. Basically in a close race, the president will be decided by a couple million while in the Electoral College, the president can be decided with less than ten people. The Electoral College sounds very unreliable.

The electoral college utterly fails at its purpose:

-Candidates spend most of their time in states where people's votes count the most.
-They spend less time in the large states.
-Basically, the candidates care more about the minority over the majority.
-The Electoral College was meant to be a fair system, which it is not.

The founding fathers didn't know that there was going to be 50 states by now. The top ten biggest states in the US won't even make up the majority of the popular vote. The reason is because there are 40 other smaller states, not just ten. So, candidates can't spend all their time in the big states. In other words, the Electoral College fails to even fulfill its purpose while the popular vote can prevent the same thing the Electoral College was made for (fairness).

The Electoral College will never be a "far better" alternative. You claim it would be far better if electors could not be swayed, but understand that they can always be bribed.

Everyone should know that nothing is perfect. Don't try to say that "the Electoral College is not perfect" because you are just sugarcoating the truth on how bad the electoral college is.

In short, the Electoral College is a flawed and obselete system that fails its purpose. The popular vote, with today's situation, is a better system.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by imperialchimp 7 months ago
imperialchimp
Despite going against the electoral college, I actually don't like the popular vote. I'm just with a reformed electoral college.
Posted by sgtm7 7 months ago
sgtm7
As the constitution is currently written, it is up to the state how they elect their electors and how the electoral votes are distributed. I think the constitution should amended so that for all states, electoral votes are distributed based on the popular vote in a particular district. I don't think the electoral college should be abolished though. Abolishing it would mean that 18 to 21 of the most populous states would determine everything for the other 19 to 22 states. No one would care about the issue of the less populous states. This is NOT what the founding fathers intended.
Posted by imperialchimp 7 months ago
imperialchimp
I am never going really ask for real fairness though. A good nation isn't a moral one.
Posted by GoOrDin 7 months ago
GoOrDin
the electoral government is stupid. because they say and do anything to stay in power, even if it is not the decision of the majority, or reason. Because they act as though a lack of support for CON is only a lack of resistance to PRO. and vice versa.
it is a criminal and delusional set-up we have.

That is tyranny. We live in a fascism.

However. Long live the Republic. :D I'm a republican (literally, not "politically")
I didn't mine, forge, build, research, code, and power this laptop now did I. Thank the people. Pay your taxes.
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