The Instigator
righty10294
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points
The Contender
shlh1514
Pro (for)
Losing
22 Points

Eli Manning is Overrated

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,154 times Debate No: 1469
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (13)

 

righty10294

Con

Hello

I've been a Giants fan since as long as I can remember (2000 Super Bowl). I remember how good it felt when we got Eli and today when he won his first playoff game. There has been a lot of talk about how he's overrated, that is just false.

Since Eli was a full time starter in 2005, he has
-been to the playoffs every year (as of 1/6/08 1-2 rec.)
-other teams to do that are the Seahawks, Colts, and Pats
-won a division title in 2nd year
-started every game since first start
-other QB's to do that Farve, Manning, Brady

Variables Eli has played threw-
-Last 2 years, other player distractions
-Injury prone defense
-Receivers drop balls
-Toughest media in the world, New York City
-Swirling wind in the Meadowlands
-Bad Offensive Lines

I will let my opponent make their case, before I get into detail
shlh1514

Pro

I think that Eli Manning is overrated. What does ONE playoff win prove? Unless it was his first start then its completely useless. Please in the first two playoff games, Eli was 0-2, 2-4 T.D:INT ratio, and both those times they were in wild card because they slipped at the second half (Last 8 games). He is a inconsistent QB and he has horrible to avarage stats. Here are his stats for his short career (Passing)
Year Team G G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 New York Giants 16 529 297 56.1 33.1 3,336 6.3 208.5 23 4.3 20 3.8 60T 36 6 27 217 73.9

2006 New York Giants 16 522 301 57.7 32.6 3,244 6.2 202.8 24 4.6 18 3.4 55T 33 8 25 186 77.0

2005 New York Giants 16 557 294 52.8 34.8 3,762 6.8 235.1 24 4.3 17 3.1 78T 49 8 28 184 75.9

2004 New York Giants 9 197 95 48.2 21.9 1,043 5.3 115.9 6 3.0 9 4.6 52 11 4 13 83 55.4

TOTAL 57 1,805 987 54.7 31.7 11,385 6.3 199.7 77 4.3 64 3.5 78 129 26 93 670 73.4

See overall he average player and his TD:INT ratio is 77:64, not great and to play in the NFC, come on you need to 1) Not turnover the ball (INT'S, Fumbles,etc.), 2) You need a running attack, 3) Need a consistent QB or QB'S and 4) Need a big Defense. The Giants have 1 out of the four (The D) They will lose to the Cowboys due to the 3 out of the four reasons.
Info: http://www.nfl.com...
Debate Round No. 1
righty10294

Con

Hello

Of course Eli isn't a "fantasy football" player. But the only thing that matters at the end of the day is winning. Here is all the quarterback drafted pre-2005 that were the 1st pick in the draft and their records.

1990 Jeff George Indianapolis Colts
1990 7-9
1991 1-15
1992 9-7
Total 17-31
Rest of career- Never did anything. Rumors of returning this year, but nothing ever happened.

1993 Drew Bledsoe New England Patriots
1993 5-11
1994 10-6 (playoff appearance Lost in opening round
1995 6-10
Rest of Career- Become a good, not great, quarterback, went 3-3 in playoffs

1998 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts
1998 3-13
1999 13-3 (playoff appearance 0-1)
2000 10-6 (playoff appearance 0-1)
Rest of Career- Well, one of the greatest ever

1999 Tim Couch Cleveland Browns
1999 3-12
2000 3-12
2001 7-9
Rest of Career- Who? Tim Couch?

2001 Michael Vick Atlanta Falcons
2001 Did not play
2002 9-6-1 (playoff appearance 1-1)
2003 3-1 (Hurt most of year)
Rest of Career- Was looking to become a good or even great starter but then the dog fights came

2002 David Carr Houston Texans
2002 4-12
2003 5-11
2004 7-9
Never looked good now is a backup in Carolina

2003 Carson Palmer Cincinnati Bengals
2003 Did not play
2004 8-8
2005 11-5 (playoff appearance 0-1)
Top Tier quarterback now, surrounded by a bad team, never did anything in the playoffs

2004 Eli Manning New York Giants (Traded from San Diego)
2004 1-7
2005 11-5 (playoff appearance 0-1)
2006 8-8 (playoff appearance 0-1)
PLayoffs, 1-2 (as of 1/9/08)

What can we get from this? In his first three years, had second best record, tied for most playoff appearance. Him and Drew Bledsoe, only quarterback in top 5 biggest media cities.

Of the QB's with the 1st pick he is no doubt the 3rd maybe even 2nd best since 1990.

To respond to the last paragraph, he has the defense, the running game (a duel threat with Jacobs and Bradshaw), he'll be consistent. The only question is if he'll turn the ball over.

Messed around on NFL.com with the standings etc.
shlh1514

Pro

Hello and sorry to not responding at the expected time, but you said that "Of course Eli isn't a "fantasy football" player." Well being a fantasy player is what some people are looking at. Being in a fantasy league, you choose how is the best for the job. In some occasions, Eli is great, but he can be the 1 TD- 3 INT kind of guy. He is inconsistent, and people know that. You found that Eli's stats

"2004 Eli Manning New York Giants (Traded from San Diego)
2004 1-7
2005 11-5 (playoff appearance 0-1)
2006 8-8 (playoff appearance 0-1)
PLayoffs, 1-2 (as of 1/9/08)"

I remember 2006, because it was the darkest time in New York. The Giants were 6-2 and the media saw that the Giants were great, may be even win the NFC East. But, them going 2-6 hurt time hugely for barely making the 6th seed. They lost to the Eagles 23-20. But that shows Eli's inconsistent side.
These stats are from www.nfl.com search: Eli Manning or http://www.nfl.com...

TDS
23
INT
20
YDS
3,336
RTG
73.9
His TD TO INT ratio are nearly the same, that not right.
Debate Round No. 2
righty10294

Con

Hello

Your argument never said how the facts proved he is overrated. So what if he has a bad TD TO rating. He has lead his team to the playoffs 3 straight years. Only 3 other QB's have longer playoff appearance streaks.

In 2006, that was a good team, but in the 2nd half of the year, the defense got beat up and hurt bad. That is something he couldn't control. PLease give facts or comparisons that prove he is overrated.
shlh1514

Pro

Hello

You to me that " So what if he has a bad TD TO rating. He has lead his team to the playoffs 3 straight years." If he has a horrible TD:INT ratio, even a running game won't help. If your team was down 24-17 with 2:00 left and 1 TO (Timeout) in the 4th quarter, you expect pass, not run, but if the QB has a horrible ratio like 10:15 (TD:INT) your team has little hope. Do you feel that people can brag that their team made the playoff and loses the wild card round? That is wrong. Here is a poll of the most overrated QB'S in the game.

View Poll Results: Who is the most overrated QB in the NFL?
Vince Young 8 42.11%
Derek Anderson 1 5.26%
Ben Roethlisberger 2 10.53%
Eli Manning 4 21.05%
Jeff Garcia 1 5.26%
Marc Bulger 2 10.53%
Tony Romo 1 5.26%
http://www.footballboards.com...
Debate Round No. 3
righty10294

Con

Hello

Thank you for debating, and I love how you made your argument after the Giants win there 2nd straight playoff game.

Your poll is completely flawed. There are only 20 voters allowed, and they are fans. I won't accept it until it has 5,000 plus fans, or a good amount of press and only press voter. Anyways, he only got 4/20 votes. How many actually did there research. Also, of thhe players in the poll he's the only one left.

Well, you say, "Do you feel that people can brag that their team made the playoff and loses the wild card round?"

Hmm did he lose in the wild card round this year? Did he lose in the divisional round yet? Think about that first.

If my team had a QB that had a 10:15 TD-int ratio he wouldn't be the starter. But Eli doesn't have one as you said in your earlier arguments. In his last 3 games, it's 6:1, not to shaby.
shlh1514

Pro

Thanks for the great debate and I am a good Giants fan, (forgot to change pic.)

Well here's a poll votes (361 votes by the NFL Players)

Terrell Owens, Cowboys.....10%
Brian Urlacher, Bears.....8%
Ray Lewis, Ravens.....7%
Michael Vick, Falcons.....7%
Eli Manning, Giants.....4%
Keyshawn Johnson, Panthers.....4%
Peyton Manning, Colts.....4%
Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers.....3%
Charles Woodson, Packers.....3%
Warren Sapp, Raiders.....3%
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...

Well in this poll Eli is the 5th most overrates player in the league thus making him the most overrated QB.

You said that "Hmm did he lose in the wild card round this year? Did he lose in the divisional round yet?" oh come on that is this year, the career of Eli is really that he overall not a "win the big game QB."

You also said that "In his last 3 games, it's 6:1, not to shaby." 3 oh really THREE GAMES. You have to look at the big picture. He is still the QB UP-DOWN type guy he shows his streak to Green Bay in the NFC Championship, but really not that GREAT. He's good but not great.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by thegreatdebator 9 years ago
thegreatdebator
elis gonna take down brady and the pats
Posted by penguin2 9 years ago
penguin2
they would have lost in seattle.
Posted by righty10294 9 years ago
righty10294
ya, but did they go to seattle? no. they won 10 straight on the road, a record, so that isn't overarted.
Posted by penguin2 9 years ago
penguin2
DUDE Giants OVERALL are overated
had they came to seattle....it would have been over, of course the seahawks suck on the road but at home they've only lost 4 games since the stadium opened.
OH YEAH!
well anyways cant argue with 18-0
-GO PATS!
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Although I believe that the patriots will win the Superbowl , I think Eli Manning and the Ginats have proven to not be overrated yesterday when they won to advance to the Superbowl.
Posted by thegreatdebator 9 years ago
thegreatdebator
shlh1514 ur a moron, because michael vick wa before eli manning on that list, making him the most overrated qb
Posted by thegreatdebator 9 years ago
thegreatdebator
eli is not overrated, he has proven himself to battle through adversity of the teammates around him and the coach around him. He was forced into the starters role as a rookie and he has had to develop as a nfl qb while living with the pressure of his family name, and of playing in new york. No matter what people say, he has lead the often wouneded giants into 3 straight playoffs, in a tight nfc east. i would also take him over phillip rivers anyday, the true overrated quaterback of the league.
Posted by mjg283 9 years ago
mjg283
"I don't see how you can think a player of your favorite team is bad."

Um, easily. I love the Giants, but they've had plenty of awful players over the years.

As for the topic of this debate, I'm still wondering who it is that is actually overrating Eli Manning. Seriously, does anybody ever run into somebody that says "Eli Manning rules/is awesome/is da shizzle"? I mean, I guess he was overrated by the Giants on draft day, but since then, he's taken nothing but criticism.
Posted by shlh1514 9 years ago
shlh1514
No really I am a giants fan. I'm from NY. I like them, but they can be a bit overrated.
Posted by righty10294 9 years ago
righty10294
shlh1514, are you a giants fan? did youwatch the game sunday. Eli played like he was underrated. I don't see how you can think a player of your favorite team is bad.
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