The Instigator
nyfan57
Pro (for)
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The Contender
NeilPeartDebater
Con (against)
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0 Points

Eli Manning is not yet an elite quarterback compared to Brees, Brady and etc...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/30/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,713 times Debate No: 20767
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

nyfan57

Pro

In the NFL right now a popular subject is the elite quarterback. People claim Eli Manning has reached the elite level along with Brady, Peyton, Drew, and Rodgers. There is not enough evidence statistically speaking that puts him in this class. Sure he is having a hot post season and has more then a decent chance in winning another ring. Even if he does win another ring I would still put guys like Big Ben in front of him. Its not that Manning is a bad quarterback because hes not. Its the fact that people put him in the same category as Brady and Brees. This will be a five round debate and will last the max 72 hours.
NeilPeartDebater

Con

Eli Manning is most definitely an elite quarterback. First and foremost why can't we compare him to his brother Peyton and Drew Brees. He's already matched Peyton's two Super Bowl appearances and one Super Bowl win, he's also surpassed Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers in Super Bowl appearances and matched both Brees and Rodgers Super Bowl win record. To not call Eli Manning an elite quarterback is ridicule, to be elite doesn't mean Eli has to be better than Brady or Joe Montana, to be an elite quarterback simply means you have to be able to come out on top when your pressure, in fact you have to be able to never be in pressure. Pressure's only there when you don't have any idea what you're doing. If you honestly think he can't deal with pressure and isn't elite then maybe you better consider this, Eli Manning is in the Super Bowl for the second time in his life. How many times have you played in the Super Bowl?
Debate Round No. 1
nyfan57

Pro

The definition of an elite quarterback has not been yet been defined. I can assure you that being an elite quarterback does not just mean coming out on top under pressure especially due to this years NFL season. Tim Tebow came out on top with pressure many times this season. How about Alex Smith against the the saints in the playoffs? If the definition of an elite quarterback is to come up big when the pressure is on Tebow and Alex Smith are elite quarterbacks in your definition. Lets put them right next to Brady and Peyton mine as well. Might as well add Mark Sanchez to the list.

Clearly preforming clutch in crunch time is not an effective way in claiming this.
When you look at the stats which are effective in assessing whether a quarterback is an elite or not its important to look at completion percentage. All the guys i listed in my opening argument have above a 60 percent completion percentage. Eli Manning does not have a career completion percentage above 60. He is actually 60th on the all time list which is sort of ironic. Tim Couch has a better completion percentage so does the backup quarterback to the lions Shaun Hill.

Every guy I listed above is in the top ten all time and Big Ben is even number 11. If you look at the postseason stats it is different. Eli plays well in the postseason. But I also believe to be an elite quarterback you got to play well in the regular season. Even his completion percentage is just a tad over 60 in the postseason. When your versing Brees, Brady, or Rodgers you know its going to be a shootout and a tough game. These guys dont lose and rarely have a losing season. The word rarely actually does not even work! lets change it to microscopically.

If i were any team I rather verse Eli then Brady and Peyton (before his neck injury any day). The reason why is Eli is the most consistent quarterback in the NFL. This looks like the con argument now but it inst at all. When Eli is on hes on. when hes not on hes not on. Many sports journalist have claimed this over the years. In 07-08 season he hit a hot streak this season he hit a cold stone streak and got hot when it mattered. One of his former teammates even stated this about him i remember vividly on espn I just cant happen to find the link.

Lets be honest hear to does a nine and seven team deserve to go to the playoffs? last year almost every giants fan was bashing the seahawks for making the playoffs. Now it is alright to make it to the playoffs with an almost losing record?

Another stat to look at is wins vs losses and winning percentage. Eli Manning is 69 and 50 as a starting quarter back. Since when does a 19 game difference and a 580 career winning percentage put you in an elite class. Look at all the legends. There way above the 580 mark. There are other ways to to be considered an elite quarterback but i can assure you being clutch under pressure is not one of them. In the 2007-08 super bowl did you ever consider the pass to Tyree as a clutch catch or clutch pass. It looked like the ball was well above his head.
NeilPeartDebater

Con

Okay I'm going to make this short and simple. First, Tim Tebow is not nearly reliable enough to be called a elite quarterback, he pulls a fourth quarter one week but looks terrible the next. If Tebow and Smith are elite quarterbacks then Eli must be too because Eli's in the Super Bowl, Not Tebow and Smith. Second, as far as Eli's percentage goes comparing him to a backup is not a fair debate. A backup might throw one pass his whole career and his percentage is 100%. If you compare Eli to a starting quarterback you also have to look at pass attempts. Eli has far more attempts than "Big Ben" but has less of a team around him dropping his percentage therefore making him no less of a quarterback. Third, we're talking about the current NFL. Brady is playing against Eli and Peyton isn't playing eliminating you're argument. Also if Eli wins when it matters then he'd be elite correct? Fourth, of course it's alright nine and seven team to go to the playoffs. If you can provide proof that Giants fans were "Bashing" the Seahawks then fine but it wont matter because the Seahawks haven't made a Super Bowl (plus no one likes them). Fifth, Eli's winning percentage are not unlike his brother Peyton's. I would like to point out that you considered Tim Tebow an elite quarterback, yet his stats are reletively equal if not less than Eli's. Wouldn't this make Eli an elite quarterback?
Debate Round No. 2
nyfan57

Pro

I did not state Tebow and Alex smith are elite quarterbacks you did when you stated "to be an elite quarterback simply means you have to be able to come out on top when your pressure. When you stated that you said an elite quarterback comes out on top when under pressure. Tebow did it against the steelers, and Smith did it against the saints. I am not arguing that Tebow and Smith are elite quarterbacks cause they are not. I am arguing what you said "to be an elite quarterback simply means you have to be able to come out on top when your pressure". By your definition of an elite quarterback Smith and Tebow would meet the criteria. Please clarify on this.

I am sorry I forgot to provide evidence to my claims above but here is some of them.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...
http://www.giantsfootballblog.com...

Now to justify the backup quarterback compared to Eli. Hill has started almost two complete seasons which gives a lot of evidence. 1 season isn't much but two full seasons gives a lot of evidence.

We never really came to a conclusion if we were talking about the present NFL. The question is Is Eli an elite quarterback? I think its safe to conclude that an elite quarterback is consistent season after season always putting up the big numbers What happened to Eli after his first Superbowl victory? He fell off the charts. Four years later there he is again. Where has he been in the last 4 years. Bree's and Rodgers after their Superbowl run put um amazing numbers and continue to each and every game.

Now to the argument that Big Ben has a better supporting cast. The wide-outs right now since we are talking about present day which you stated has the giants favored big time. Hakeem nicks, Victor Cruz, and mario manningham. Compared to Wallace and i cant name the steelers second string wide out. Don't think about pulling the card that Eli made cruz into cruz look what he was doing with a 3rd string quarterback in the preseason last year before he got injured.

Another interesting statistic is sack percentage. I think its easy to conclude that not getting sacked makes you a better quarterback. Eli got sacked 28 times this year. Thats number 20 on the list. Brees got sacked four times less and look at the numbers he was able to put up this year record shattering. Why were Elis states so different from Drews stats. The answer is Bree's is an elite quarterback. Brady and Rodgers also got sacked more and look at their stats this year compared to Eli. The reason why Eli is good is he has a superior pass blocking O line. If you look up the stats I think this will probably be true for his last super bowl run as well. Eli has always had the superior Oline when it comes to pass protection. To add to this even more they have to verse Demarcus ware twice a year who is an active all time sacks leader. The eagles and redskins dont particularly have good D lines as well .
http://espn.go.com...
NeilPeartDebater

Con

NeilPeartDebater forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
nyfan57

Pro

Eli is not an elite quarterback I dont care if he won another Superbowl you forfeited a round to prove that hes an elite quarterback. On that last drive he had only threw one pass to Manningham what else happened? They tried to run out the clock because they were scared of Brady. I promise you if Eli was on the other end Ellis wouldn't try to down the ball on the one yard line. Thats how good Brady is. Your also very lucky the 49ers coughed up that fumble.

Lets see next year if Eli is consistent or if he falls off the board again like he did in 08-09 season. Eli didn't even score the game winning touchdown they kept on running the ball to keep Brady off the field. The giants pulled this years Superbowl off of the skin of their teeth. Manning performs well in the clutch but that's it. I want to see above a 60 percent completion percentage next year and I will put him in the elite class. Its not going to happen though. Especially since he has 3 amazing wide outs.
NeilPeartDebater

Con

Im done arguing. It's pointless to debate against someone who says the same thing over. I really don't care if you don't li it's your opinion and your entitled to it. I'm sorry i just lost the interest in this debate.......Vote Vermin Supreme.
Debate Round No. 4
nyfan57

Pro

It would be helpfull if you could argue your point. You made two claims. One you couldn't clairfy on and the the other claim that he is an elite quarterback you were unable to provide any evidence to.support.your claim. Clearly Eli isn't an elite Qb because performing in the clutch alone dosent make you an elite qb.
NeilPeartDebater

Con

NeilPeartDebater forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by nyfan57 5 years ago
nyfan57
I dont think hes a bad quarterback at all but hes not an elite
Posted by wittetye 5 years ago
wittetye
Eli is a great quaterback but he will never be able to be in the same conversation as brady.
Posted by NeilPeartDebater 5 years ago
NeilPeartDebater
*this changes the way you read it greatly
Posted by NeilPeartDebater 5 years ago
NeilPeartDebater
*this changes the way you read it greatly
Posted by NeilPeartDebater 5 years ago
NeilPeartDebater
Please excuse some of my grammar mistakes my computer is glitchy and post's my debate before i can review. The statement about brady Playing Eli and Peyton being out is supposed to have a comma after Eli. Ts the way you read it greatly.
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