The Instigator
SherlockHolmes
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
adealornodeal
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Elton John doesn't get the credit he deserves!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2010 Category: Arts
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,008 times Debate No: 14095
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

SherlockHolmes

Pro

Tiny Dancer, Rocket Man, Your Song, Bennie and the Jets, just four from the list of great hits by Sir Elton John. However, a lot of kids today disregard him entirely for his homosexuality. Elton John has always been a capable performer, a mindblowing pianist, and an amazing singer, but so many people seem to disregard his jazzy piano solos, and turn towards the wannabes of the charts. I mean, look at this video. See how capable he is!
adealornodeal

Con

By taking the CON side of the resolution...

1. I agree that Elton John is one of the greatest singer/songwriters of our time.
2. Since my opponent and I agree that Elton John is a great singer/songwriter, my burden as the CON is to show that Elton John has indeed received the credit he deserves.

Judging:

The Pro must prove that Elton John has not received the credit he deserves. The Con must prove that Elton John has received the credit he deserves.

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Contention 1: Awards and Recognitions

Elton John has been receiving recognition by the masses for his work both as a musician and as an activist for decades. He has established for himself a musical empire, having "sold more than 250 million records over a 35-year career, with more than 100 singles making the best-selling charts." [1]

Here are a few of his major awards and recognitions:

1975: Received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

1987: Won his first Grammy award for Best Pop Performance. It was his first of six Grammy awards. He would go on to win Best Instrumental Composition in 1991, Best Male Pop Vocal Performance in 1994 and 1997, the Grammy Legend Award in 1999, and Best Musical Show Album in 2000.

1992: Inducted to the Songwriter's Hall of Fame.

1994: Inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Artists are eligible for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 25 years after the release of their first record. Elton John was inducted as soon as he became eligible. [2]

1992: Founded the Elton John AIDS Foundation, and has been working as an activist ever since.

1995: Elton John was made Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire "for services to Music and for charitable service." [3]

1998: Knighted by the Queen of England for his charitable work.

1999. Topped the list of the Artists of the Century, together with the Beatles and Elvis Presley. [4]

Having examined how much recognition Elton John has received, I have one question for my opponent: What more?

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Refutations:

My opponent makes only one claim so far in the debate.

1. "However, a lot of kids today disregard him entirely for his homosexuality. "

My opponent doesn't quantify this claim. I am a 17-year-old and as I stated in the comments section, everyone I know loved Elton John. Personally, I didn't even know he was gay until a couple years ago, and it has never affected my personal opinion of the singer. The fact that my opponent, a 15-year-old (as stated publicly on his profile), and I, a 17-year-old, are able to disregard his homosexuality and enjoy his music shows that it is clearly not a major issue. Until my opponent quantifies this claim, it cannot be considered in the round.

My opponent has made no other claims thus far in the debate. The resolution has been negated. Elton John is extremely capable, but he has received adequate recognition for his work. I thank my opponent for posting this resolution and look forward to his response.

[1] http://new.music.yahoo.com...
[2] http://www.futurerocklegends.com...
[3] http://www.london-gazette.co.uk...
[4] http://www.riaa.com...
Debate Round No. 1
SherlockHolmes

Pro

Well, a lot of the teenagers I know, almost all of them, disklike Sir Elton. I feel he doesn't get the credit he deserves from them. They forget that he influenced a lot of the music in the charts today (Gary Barlow of Take That says that as a child he was brought up listening to the music of Sir Elton and it was he who influenced him to start playing piano). I live in Britain, you see. My school has little awareness of homosexuality in the community. A lot of the people I know in fact see any homosexual as "weird" or "freaky". Unfortunately, Elton John drops into this category. In fact, a lot of the people I know of around my age (even pianists) disregard his music and listen only to whatever "hit" is in the current top fourty. I feel Elton should be at least acknowledged by Britain's younger generation.
adealornodeal

Con

My opponent has ignored my entire case and dropped all my responses.

Framework:

The Pro must prove that Elton John has not received the credit he deserves. The Con must prove that Elton John has received the credit he deserves.

We will be judging this round on holistically.

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Responses:

1. "I feel [Elton John] doesn't get the credit he deserves from them"

My opponent's argument in Round 2 is completely intangible. The topic for the debate is whether or not Elton John has received the credit he deserves. Whether or not my opponent's peers are intolerant towards gays is a completely intangible fact and thus is irrelevant to this round. Considering that I live over 5,000 miles away from my opponent, it is impossible for us to debate whether or not his peers are tolerant.

"In fact, a lot of the people I know of around my age (even pianists) disregard his music and listen only to whatever "hit" is in the current top fourty."

This is their choice. If they choose to listen to what's hip, they listen to what's hip.

"I feel Elton should be at least acknowledged by Britain's younger generation."

First of all, this is merely an opinion. Secondly, my opponent hasn't told us how many people disregard Elton John. He must quantify his contention for it to be considered in today's debate. Third, we live in a world where arguably most everyone will grow out of said "homophobia" that my opponent claims. As he states, only the teenagers are intolerant towards John's homosexuality. The United Kingdom and United States are both extremely tolerant towards homosexuals; growing up in such a society mandates that it's citizens tolerate such situations. It's naive to assume that everyone will be tolerant; but the majority will. Furthermore, there is an ongoing cultural shift around the world in developed nations that is gradually becoming more accepting of homosexuals. This problem is one that will be solved with time.

Ultimately, even if my opponent's peers gave credit to Elton John, what does that mean from Elton John's perspective? As I've shown in Round 1, Elton John is one of the most acclaimed and influencial artists of our time.

Until my opponent presents any tangible arguments, his side of the debate has been disproven.

---

My argument:

My opponent has yet to respond to what I stated in Round 1. Extend my arguments that Elton John has received numerous awards and recognitions for his work. And don't forget my question to my opponent; what more?

The resolution has been negated.
Debate Round No. 2
SherlockHolmes

Pro

SherlockHolmes forfeited this round.
adealornodeal

Con

My opponent has forfeited the round and failed to respond to my arguments.

He presents one argument. As I have shown:

1. His claims are unquantified.
2. "My peers don't like Elton John" is intangible
3. His claims are merely an opinion.
4. Intolerance will be solved with time.

On the contrary, I have shown how Sir Elton John, who was Knighted by the Queen of England, and inducted into many musical halls of fame, has received more recognition for his work than than most artists dream of.

Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by adealornodeal 6 years ago
adealornodeal
I second annhasle. Maybe the CON could agree that Elton John is amazing but argue that he has received the credit he deserves. But, how would it be possible for con to quantify that he has received the credit he deserves? It's intangible. I'm 17, I'd argue that I'm part of the "new generation" that you claim ignores him, but almost everyone I know loves Elton John.
Posted by annhasle 6 years ago
annhasle
So... what is Con supposed to prove here? That Elton John SHOULD be ignored by the masses? Or that the current stars of today are more impressive than Elton John which then makes him obsolete?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Grape 6 years ago
Grape
SherlockHolmesadealornodealTied
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Vote Placed by zeyneb8989 6 years ago
zeyneb8989
SherlockHolmesadealornodealTied
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Vote Placed by adealornodeal 6 years ago
adealornodeal
SherlockHolmesadealornodealTied
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Vote Placed by alpaca 6 years ago
alpaca
SherlockHolmesadealornodealTied
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