The Instigator
4chanforthewin
Pro (for)
Winning
37 Points
The Contender
leet4A1
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points

Eminem is a better rapper than Lil Wayne

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
4chanforthewin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/27/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 13,050 times Debate No: 9854
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (8)

 

4chanforthewin

Pro

I argue that Eminem is a better rapper than Lil Wayne.

I'm just going to present my facts straight up, and let my opponent refute them.

Contention 1- Eminem raps about the things that matter.

Eminem raps about a missed childhood, being left by his father at a young age, and a pill addiction. Lil Wayne raps about money, hoes, and more hoes. And more money. And bigger wheels. And more money.

Point is, Lil Wayne spits the superficial materials of life. What would you rather listen to? An emotionally heart-and-gut-wrenching 4 minute song about the loss of your daughter, or "A Milli"? :/

Contention 2- Eminem has sold more albums than Lil Wayne

Both Lil Wayne AND Eminem have both been in the mainstream rap industry for about the same time, from 1999-present. That being said, Eminem has sold over 80 million albums, while Lil Wayne has sold a mere 6.5 million albums. Clearly, people would rather listen to Eminem.

Contention 3- Eminem is white, which gives a severe disadvantage, yet he is where he is now.

Lil Wayne is black. Eminem is white and destroys him.

Thank you.
leet4A1

Con

I thank my opponent for starting this debate. As required by the resolution, I will be arguing that Lil Wayne is a rapper equal to or better than Eminem, as it is my opponent's burden to argue that Eminem is better than Lil Wayne.

I will address my opponent's three contentions:

-----------
"Contention 1- Eminem raps about the things that matter.

Eminem raps about a missed childhood, being left by his father at a young age, and a pill addiction. Lil Wayne raps about money, hoes, and more hoes. And more money. And bigger wheels. And more money."
-----------
My opponent's first contention is reliant on two premises:
1. The content of a rapper's lyrics are an important factor in deciding whether or not that rapper is superior to another.
2. Orphaned children and drug addictions "matter" more than money, prostitutes and cars.

If either of these 2 premises fail, so does Contention 1.

PREMISE 1 FAIL: The skill of a rapper is dependent upon just that, their rap skills. This involves how well they flow, their beats, how well they rhyme, their voice. It is not dependent upon lyrical content. That's poetry you're thinking of.

PREMISE 2 FAIL: This is highly subjective and depends entirely upon who you are. To me, orphaned children and some dude addicted to Vicoden don't mean a thing. Money, prostitutes and cars, on the other hand.... well, they're awesome.

-----------
"Contention 2- Eminem has sold more albums than Lil Wayne

Both Lil Wayne AND Eminem have both been in the mainstream rap industry for about the same time, from 1999-present. That being said, Eminem has sold over 80 million albums, while Lil Wayne has sold a mere 6.5 million albums. Clearly, people would rather listen to Eminem."
-----------
My opponent has missed one major point here... people are idiots. That's right, the good majority (I'm talking 90% here) of people on this planet are brainless morons, whose opinions should under no circumstances be taken into account.

Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Notice anything strange about those tables? I'll give a few examples of how stupid people are mostly responsible for record sales, and that therefore record sales are indicative only of how stupid people are, not how good an artist is:

1. In 19 years, Boys II Men have sold 2 million more records than Bob Dylan has in 50 years. STUPID!
2. New Kids on the Block have sold 70 million records... 20 MILLION more than Nirvana, despite that the two bands began at around the same time. STUPID!
3. Britney Spears has sold 80 million records in her 10 year career. Johnny Cash sold just 50 million in his 50 year career. STUPID!

Record sales are not indicative of how good a performer is, merely how many idiots have visited a record store in a given time period.

------------
"Contention 3- Eminem is white, which gives a severe disadvantage, yet he is where he is now."
------------
Why does the colour of one's skin give them a "severe disadvantage" in the rap game? Are white people inherently stupider than black people, or inherently worse at rhyming? If so, proof please. If not, then from where does this disadvantage stem?

I would argue that Eminem's skin colour has actually been advantageous to his rapping career, not detrimental. It gives him a point of difference, and probably allowed a lot of white rap fans to "come out of the closet" and buy rap publicly without fear of looking like a wigger.

I'll leave it there for this round. Thanks.
Debate Round No. 1
4chanforthewin

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate.

In Contention 1, my opponents addresses that

"1. The content of a rapper's lyrics are an important factor in deciding whether or not that rapper is superior to another.
2. Orphaned children and drug addictions "matter" more than money, prostitutes and cars."

1. My opponent states that lyrical content has nothing to do with their rap skills. It is just their flow, voice, beats, etc. However, my opponent has made a major flaw here.

What he is saying is that the Notorious BIG could rap the words "Interior crocodile alligator, I drive a chevrolet movie theatre" 160 times over a "Big Poppa" beat, and it would essentially be the same as BIG rapping the words to the real "Big Poppa". Unfortunately, lyrics DO matter. You could have the best flow and DJ Premier as your producer, but if you can't back it up with lyrics, then it's useless.

2. My opponent likes to think that hoes and money are more important than fighting addiction and being let down as a child early on, and these things are in his words, "awesome". Subjective or not, almost being killed by drugs and slapping that hoe you met last night are two different things, but drugs have a stronger and more emotional pull.

Contention 2- Sales

Yes, I agree that most people are brainless idiots. BUT, looking at your own chart, you can see who's on the top sellers list of all time.

The Beatles, Elvis, MJ, ABBA, and Queen. I doubt that 90% of the people who bought their records thought they were cool and fit in. They bought it because they simply liked the music.

The same applies here. All are respected bands/people, and their records sales prove that. You are always going to have an anomaly in everything, i.e., Britney Spears, Boyz II Men, etc,

Contention 3- Race

It is true that the color of the skin in terms of the rap industry doesn't physically affect you, meaning that they don't inherently have a weaker flow, worse lyrics, worse timing, etc.,

BUT the color of the skin matters greatly, since most rappers nowadays are black. No one gave Eminem a second look when he was underground. Let me sample you a line from "White America":

"when I was Underground, no one gave a fu** I was white, no labels wanted to sign me, almost gave up, I was
Like, fu** it, until I met Dre, the only one to look past,
gave me a chance, and I lit a fire up Under his a**"

Clearly, Dr. Dre's intervention in his life was what he needed to get past the skin color. Had Dr. Dre not signed him, we would not know Eminem today.

My opponent also never proves how Lil Wayne is actually a better rapper than Eminem; he just refutes my points. With nothing to attack, I urge you to vote for Em. Thank you.
leet4A1

Con

I will again rebut my opponent's three contentions, then make a few arguments of my own.

Contention 1:
"1. What he is saying is that the Notorious BIG could rap the words "Interior crocodile alligator, I drive a chevrolet movie theatre" 160 times over a "Big Poppa" beat, and it would essentially be the same as BIG rapping the words to the real "Big Poppa". Unfortunately, lyrics DO matter. You could have the best flow and DJ Premier as your producer, but if you can't back it up with lyrics, then it's useless.

Ok, my opponent has made a good point. I tried to sneak that one in there and my opponent has called my bluff, and for that I commend her. But I've been thinking man... Eminem has had some terrible lyrics over the years, particularly recently. So I suggest that I post the worst two Eminem lyrics I can find, and my opponent post the worst two Lil Wayne lyrics she can find, and we'll let the voters decide which is crappier.

EMINEM WHACK RHYMES #1:
"I ain't never seen
An @ss like that
The way you move it
You make my pee-pee go
'Doing-doing-doing'"

Come on man, Eazy'd be rollin' over in his grave if he heard those lyrics.

EMINEM WHACK RHYMES #2:
"Predominantly. Predominantly. Everything's always predominantly.
Predominantly white. Predominantly black."

Alright, so it's predominantly... yeesh. This is in a verse, mind you, not a chorus or a song called "Predominantly".

"My opponent likes to think that hoes and money are more important than fighting addiction and being let down as a child early on, and these things are in his words, "awesome". Subjective or not, almost being killed by drugs and slapping that hoe you met last night are two different things, but drugs have a stronger and more emotional pull.""

Eminem's a whiner. He cries about being broke and stuff, he's worth $100 million. Oh, he's addicted to drugs... boo hoo, so go to a rehab clinic and fix yourself up. Lil Wayne raps about the cool sh*t in life, not the boring depressing stuff. Eminem is hardly a role model and anybody looking to Eminem's raps for moral guidance should probably go see a real councillor. In conclusion, Lil Wayne beats Eminem because he raps about cool stuff like blunts and chicks, and not about depressing stuff like your mother not loving you.

My opponent goes onto Contention 2, where she admits that most people are idiots, and that there are bound to be anomalies in everything. I contend that Eminem is one such anomaly in the music charts, and therefore that my opponent's Contention 2 is rebutted. Popular =/= good.

My opponent then says, with respect to Contention 3:
"Clearly, Dr. Dre's intervention in his life was what he needed to get past the skin color. Had Dr. Dre not signed him, we would not know Eminem today."

This is a plain admission on my opponent's behalf that Eminem is not good enough to make it in rap without the aid of Dr. Dre, purely because of his skin colour. But there are plenty of white rappers, not quite as popular as Eminem, but popular nonetheless. Hell, Jauqine Phoenix has started rapping. If Eminem can't make it as a rapper without a big shot producer's help, then he can't be good. Lil Wayne started his own career.

I will now add a Contention of my own to the debate:

Contention 4:
Lil Wayne looks cooler and more like a rapper than Eminem. This is very important because image is a major part of the rap game, you've gotta have the look, and as I'm about to show, Eminem does not.

Here's a few of Lil Wayne:
http://media.photobucket.com...
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...
http://the189.com...

Now look at that dude man, pure rap. Smoking bulk yahndi, big dreadlocks, covered in tattoos. Now let's take a look at Eminem:
http://www.smh.com.au...
http://www.smh.com.au...
http://www.judiciaryreport.com...

I think we've seen about enough. The guy looks like a homosexual. And I mean lesbian. This man should not be rapping, he should be hosting the View.

I'll leave it there, thanks to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 2
4chanforthewin

Pro

Yum. My opponent has made this fun. For that, I applaud him.

"Ok, my opponent has made a good point. I tried to sneak that one in there and my opponent has called my bluff, and for that I commend her. But I've been thinking man... Eminem has had some terrible lyrics over the years, particularly recently. So I suggest that I post the worst two Eminem lyrics I can find, and my opponent post the worst two Lil Wayne lyrics she can find, and we'll let the voters decide which is crappier."
Before I post Lil Waynes "lyrics", I would like to make the point that those verses from Eminem's songs were both from Encore, his 2nd worst album, and the album was basically fun. "Just Lose It" shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

Fair enough. Here we go.

CRAPPY LIL WAYNE LYRICS #1

Ok, hello it's da Martian
Space jam Jordans
I want this sh** forever wake up and smell the garden
Fresher than the harvest
Step up to the target
If I had one guess than I guess Im just New Orleans

Um. What?

Not only does Lil Wayne have terrible delivery, his lyrics don't even make sense. Try to make sense of this. If you could, that's great. But what does "space jam jordans" mean? I get that Michael Jordan was in the movie Space Jam. But that's it. And then Lil Wayne "want[s] this sh** forever wake up and smell the garden"? Again, what? And then he goes as far as to say he is an actual city! Madness, I tell you. Pure madness.

CRAPPY LIL WAYNE LYRICS #2

"I'm a lion roar I'm a dinosaur"

No comment.

"Eminem's a whiner. He cries about being broke and stuff, he's worth $100 million. Oh, he's addicted to drugs... boo hoo, so go to a rehab clinic and fix yourself up. Lil Wayne raps about the cool sh*t in life, not the boring depressing stuff. Eminem is hardly a role model and anybody looking to Eminem's raps for moral guidance should probably go see a real councillor. In conclusion, Lil Wayne beats Eminem because he raps about cool stuff like blunts and chicks, and not about depressing stuff like your mother not loving you."

May I remind you that Lil Wayne has a song called "Whip it like a Slave"?

And the subject matter matters when you rap, just like lyrics. But simply rapping about blunts and hoes doesn't make you any better. And addiction is a terrible thing, you just don't go to a rehab clinic and get fixed up; if it was that simple, we wouldn't have any druggies PERIOD.

"My opponent goes onto Contention 2, where she admits that most people are idiots, and that there are bound to be anomalies in everything. I contend that Eminem is one such anomaly in the music charts, and therefore that my opponent's Contention 2 is rebutted. Popular =/= good."

Ok, I agree. Sales aren't really a deciding factor in who's a better rapper. BUT, 80 million albums doesn't mean nothing.

My opponent then says, with respect to Contention 3:
"Clearly, Dr. Dre's intervention in his life was what he needed to get past the skin color. Had Dr. Dre not signed him, we would not know Eminem today."

"This is a plain admission on my opponent's behalf that Eminem is not good enough to make it in rap without the aid of Dr. Dre, purely because of his skin colour. But there are plenty of white rappers, not quite as popular as Eminem, but popular nonetheless. Hell, Jauqine Phoenix has started rapping. If Eminem can't make it as a rapper without a big shot producer's help, then he can't be good. Lil Wayne started his own career."

My opponent states that there are plenty of white rappers out there trying to make a name for themselves, and are relatively popular.

BUT, how many of these existed before Eminem bursted on the scene? If my opponent can give me one example of a successful white rapper before Eminem's time, then my point is invalidated.

And Joaquin Phoenix was only noticed as a "rapper" because he was a famous actor beforehand, and starred in big Hollywood productions, eg Gladiator, The Village, Walk the Line, etc.

"Contention 4:
Lil Wayne looks cooler and more like a rapper than Eminem. This is very important because image is a major part of the rap game, you've gotta have the look, and as I'm about to show, Eminem does not.

Here's a few of Lil Wayne:
http://media.photobucket.com......
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com......
http://the189.com......

Now look at that dude man, pure rap. Smoking bulk yahndi, big dreadlocks, covered in tattoos. Now let's take a look at Eminem:
http://www.smh.com.au......
http://www.smh.com.au......
http://www.judiciaryreport.com......

I think we've seen about enough. The guy looks like a homosexual. And I mean lesbian. This man should not be rapping, he should be hosting the View."

Let me provide you one photo that will PROVE Lil Wayne is un-cooler than Eminem. Just ONE.

http://nahright.com...

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Are you telling me that a rapper that kisses dudes is good?!??!?!

I don't see Eminem kissing men.

Vote for Eminem.
leet4A1

Con

My opponent has posted his two crappy Lil Wayne lyrics in response to my two crappy Eminem lyrics, so it's up to the voters to decide which is crappier.

"And the subject matter matters when you rap, just like lyrics. But simply rapping about blunts and hoes doesn't make you any better. And addiction is a terrible thing, you just don't go to a rehab clinic and get fixed up; if it was that simple, we wouldn't have any druggies PERIOD."

Music isn't about being made "better", it's about enjoyment and entertainment. I don't listen to an Eminem album for therapy, I listen to it to enjoy myself. When he starts rapping about his mother not loving him and cutting his wife up with a chainsaw, it ceases to be enjoyable. Who can't enjoy a good rap about blunts and hoes? To conclude this point, I argue that Lil Wayne's lyrics are better for the purpose of rap music (enjoyment) because he sings about positive topics like having fun, and not about torturing his ex-wife and stuff like that.

"Ok, I agree. Sales aren't really a deciding factor in who's a better rapper."

This point has been conceded by my opponent, and rightfully so. I have shown that high album sales to not necessarily equate to talented.

"BUT, how many of these existed before Eminem bursted on the scene? If my opponent can give me one example of a successful white rapper before Eminem's time, then my point is invalidated."

Plenty of them. I'll name a few notables: Everlast, Insane Clown Posse, Vanilla Ice (*shudders*). These guys got very famous rapping long before Eminem did. See this link for many more: http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Are you telling me that a rapper that kisses dudes is good?!??!?! I don't see Eminem kissing men."

Oh really? What exactly do you think these two got upto after this performance: http://8millionstories.files.wordpress.com...

I propose that Eminem and Elton John had sex after this gig, as evidenced by the fact they're holding hands in anticipation for the same. This makes him gayer than Lil Wayne by a long shot.

I'll leave it there, thanks to my opponent for the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LilWayneisGod 3 years ago
LilWayneisGod
Lil Wayne is the best around, and nothings ever gonna bring him down.
Posted by ittastenasty 3 years ago
ittastenasty
in my opinion i think they both suck eminem is overated his songs arent good anymore he use to be good back when he was on drugs and lil wayne has his moments except for when he tried to do rock music that was just bad but overall i think they are about the same when it comes to talent
Posted by Cedric2Hockey9 4 years ago
Cedric2Hockey9
In my opinion, Eminem is way better than Lil Wayne! I wont lie, i DO listen to some Lil Wayne, but as far as im concerned, Eminems lyrics are a hundred times better than Lil Waynes. Take Lollipop for example... I mean, yeah it was a good beat, but jesus christ, all the lyrics are about is this : She li li li li licked me like a lollipop. Then take Lose Yourself by Eminem, and just check out the lyrics, 100 times better! Other thing, listen to 'Drop the world' and compare Lil Waynes Lyrics to Eminems .. Eminem has more lyrics than Lil Wayne in this song (if u dont count the chorus)...
Posted by leet4A1 4 years ago
leet4A1
"leet4A1... marry me?"

Haha, you keep them Simpsons quotes coming and we got a deal man! :D
Posted by nonentity 4 years ago
nonentity
leet4A1... marry me?
Posted by leet4A1 4 years ago
leet4A1
"Even beyond the kids, portraying him running around with his head on fire is just soo foul. That man suffered 3rd degree burns..."

Yeah bit harsh I suppose. I hope someone gave him some Jesus Juice for pain-relief.

"Boo-urns!"

Haha! Simpsons quotes FTW.

Smithers: They're not booing you sir, they're saying "boo-urns, boo-urns".
Burns: Are you booing me or are you saying "boo-urns"?
Crowd: Boooooo!
Hans Moleman: I was saying "boo-urns".

Pure gold.
Posted by nonentity 4 years ago
nonentity
Even beyond the kids, portraying him running around with his head on fire is just soo foul. That man suffered 3rd degree burns...

Boo-urns!
Posted by 4chanforthewin 4 years ago
4chanforthewin
....except Michael Jackson didn't rape kids
Posted by leet4A1 4 years ago
leet4A1
"I especially dislike his "Just Lose It" video where he basically portrays Michael Jackson in the most vulgar and disgusting way."

Not exactly a difficult task. :D
Posted by nonentity 4 years ago
nonentity
I don't like either of them. But Eminem tends to have this whiney drone to his voice that is very unpleasant and cartoonish to listen to. The last time I remember Em having a decent "deep" song was Cleaning Out My Closet. The only music I've heard from him since then is making fun of other celebrities and whining and complaining. I especially dislike his "Just Lose It" video where he basically portrays Michael Jackson in the most vulgar and disgusting way.
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